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Old 01-30-2013, 14:14   #21
Arc Angel
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Yes, it's serious; and you should stop using your G-21 with such heavy loads. There's got 'a be some sort of increase in headspace on that 45; and primers are going to have a tendency to back out on ya, too.

I have, long, suspected Glock breech faces of not being properly hardened and of inconsistent density. I've tried, for years, to find out exactly how and what they're made; but all I ever get is, 'from steel billets'. What kind of steel billets remains a mystery? Are they X-rayed for stress imperfections and cracks? I doubt it.

Tenifer is just a surface treatment; and the overall tensile strength of a Glock's breech face remains largely unknown. Do Glock breech faces ever fail? Yes, on occasion, we already know that they do. I suppose I'm as guilty as the next guy. I've fired modest 45 Super loads in both of my own G-21's. So far, though, without any apparent ill-effects other than a little minor slide peeing.

A reasonable solution? Get an aftermarket slide; and, from now on, shoot tamer loads.


NOTE: Now that I think about it, nothing has been said about, 'HOW' you set this G-21 up? Your polymer frame could be, 'wobbling like spaghetti' every time the pistol is fired.

Last edited by Arc Angel; 01-30-2013 at 14:21..
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Old 01-30-2013, 14:54   #22
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Probably not heat treated to spec. Glock will make you pay however due to the conversion. They weren't designed and engineered for that is going to be your answer.
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Old 01-30-2013, 17:07   #23
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I have never shot hand loads from my 21. I have shot Ga Arms 230gr @ 1300fps and Underwood 185gr @ 1500fps from this 21. The primers have some flow but they look normal, no pancake effect. The only difference between my setup and the kit from 460rowland.com is that I did not use a compensator on my LWD barrel, and LWD now offers 460 Rowland reaming for thier 45 ACP barrels. The barrel has remained solid. I chose to use a Sprinco unit "factory modified" to handle 230gr @ 1350fps. The Sprinco stops the slide from impacting the frame but does very little to reduce the felt recoil. I have kept a close watch on the entire pistol and I have found no stress cracks or loosening of parts and the rails are still just as solid as the day I bought the pistol. Also, there is little or no bulging on the 460 Rowland brass.

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Old 01-30-2013, 17:37   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vaquero aleman View Post
I have never shot hand loads from my 21. I have shot Ga Arms 230gr @ 1300fps and Underwood 185gr @ 1500fps from this 21....

460rowland.com...

You don't get it yet, do you? Let me make this simple:

The .460 Rowland is not a factory chambered round by Glock. Period.

If you took a brand new Dodge pickup, dumped the engine and replaced it with a JATO, would Dodge honor the warranty because the frame bent?

Underwood is known for ammo that is hotter than the hubs of hell and you have coupled that with a wildcat NON-FACTORY chambered round utilizing an AFTERMARKET barrel and AFTERMARKET RSA.

Got it? You're screwed. You tossed the dice & you lost. Accept it & move on. You'll need to buy a new slide and hopefully have learned your lesson.
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Old 01-30-2013, 17:51   #25
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Ok, so your loads may not be the cause, it may be the slide itself.

What's your next step?


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Old 01-30-2013, 18:19   #26
vaquero aleman
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiro Fijo View Post
You don't get it yet, do you? Let me make this simple:

The .460 Rowland is not a factory chambered round by Glock. Period.

If you took a brand new Dodge pickup, dumped the engine and replaced it with a JATO, would Dodge honor the warranty because the frame bent?

Underwood is known for ammo that is hotter than the hubs of hell and you have coupled that with a wildcat NON-FACTORY chambered round utilizing an AFTERMARKET barrel and AFTERMARKET RSA.

Got it? You're screwed. You tossed the dice & you lost. Accept it & move on. You'll need to buy a new slide and hopefully have learned your lesson.
I, by far, am not the only shooter that has chosen to fire .460 Rowland out of a G21.
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Old 01-30-2013, 18:22   #27
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Absoultley you're not the only 460 Rowland user.

So what are you gonna do?


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Old 01-30-2013, 18:34   #28
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My first action was to put my 21 back into 45ACP mode. Then I actually thought that it might benefit me to ask for advice, here at Glocktalk. I didn't expect to get such a negative response. I have sent emails to both LWD and Glock regarding this issue. This is not just about my G21. There are lots of people getting the conversion, and I thought that everybody with a conversion, or thinking about it, would find this post useful.
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Old 01-30-2013, 19:00   #29
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Well, this is the internet so the negative response is sorta predictable.

I wouldn't fire it even in ACP mode if it were mine.


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Old 01-30-2013, 19:12   #30
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For the most part, I agree. I wouldn't want to shoot my eye out.
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Old 01-30-2013, 20:14   #31
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Don't mention 460 Rowland, place factory 45 ACP barrel back into weapon, and ask Glock, "What happened to my Glock? How you going to fix it?"
Don't ask, and sure as hell don't tell
Shame on u for lying.
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Old 01-30-2013, 20:38   #32
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Maybe time to just order a LW slide and use that with your 460 Rowland setup

I wonder if using the compensator (muzzle brake) might have help (this is question as I don't really have any idea if it would or not)

Makes me Leary of getting a 460 kit for mine

Might be better off just ordering tactical length slide, threaded barrel (460 ream) and LW comp to have a dedicated top just 460
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Old 01-31-2013, 08:26   #33
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The compensator for .460 Rowland conversions are NOT meant to be optional. If you are not using the compensator, then you are putting additional stress on the frame/breech.
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Old 01-31-2013, 09:09   #34
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Unless I am mistaken, the purpose of the compensator is to slow down the rearward movement of the slide. I don't see how it will change the amount of force that the brass will have against the breech face since the pressure created by the explosion causes the brass to hit the breech face before the slide begins to move. The movement of the slide is caused by the explosive forces pushing on it. So, not to be too redundant, the firing pin strikes the primer, the primer ignites the powder, the powder rapidly expands with tremendous force, slamming the brass and primer against the breech face and forces the slide to move. Slowing down the movement of the slide won't stop the brass from slamming against the breech face. It will just eliminate some of the force of the slide slamming against the frame, which in my case, the slide is stopped by the Sprinco unit before it can make contact with the frame.
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Old 01-31-2013, 09:19   #35
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Yes, I am beginning to agree with the fact that .460 Rowland is probably just too much for a Glock. I have enjoyed experimenting with the Rowland cartridge(glocktalk/ 21 club/ 460 anyone?) but I think that I will most likely just go back to 10mm. I already have the frame and barrel so I just need to get an LWD slide, like you guys have suggested. If it can't be done with 10mm, then your probably in the wrong place to begin with.
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Old 01-31-2013, 11:22   #36
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Thanks very much for posting the information. I will keep this firmly in mind and pay extra attention to the breechface during routine inspections.

I'm satisfied the complete .460 Rowland conversion kit that is designed, tested and sold by Johnny Rowland for the Glock pistols is safe to use. Personally, I never even considered shooting .460 Rowland in a G30 without the supplied compensator. I'm not qualified to second guess Rowland on any of the pieces of his conversion kit to make substitutions, deletions or additions (barrel, RSA, or compensator). I will use it with confidence while Rowland stands behind his product and my inspections confirm no reason to be concerned. How infrequently I carry the pistol for woods protection has a bearing on my decision too.
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Old 01-31-2013, 11:45   #37
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Thanks very much for posting the information. I will keep this firmly in mind and pay extra attention to the breechface during routine inspections.

I'm satisfied the complete conversion kit that is designed, tested and supplied by Johnny Rowland for the Glock pistols is safe to use. Personally, I never even considered shooting .460 Rowland in a G30 without the supplied compensator. I'm not qualified to second guess Rowland on any of the pieces of his conversion kit or make substitutions, deletions or additions. I will use it with confidence while Rowland stands behind his product and my inspections confirm no reason to be concerned. How infrequently I carry the pistol for woods protection has a bearing on my decision too.
This is what I'm hoping as I'd be interested in the JR 460 kit
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Old 01-31-2013, 11:50   #38
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[QUOTE=vaquero aleman;19932849] the firing pin strikes the primer, the primer ignites the powder, the powder rapidly expands with tremendous force, slamming the brass and primer against the breech face and forces the slide to move. QUOTE]

The brass does indeed jam against the breech face during the ignition process, but not that hard. And I doubt that that is what is causing the dishing. I would think that it would be the peak pressure thrust. Once pressure starts building the case walls are forced against the chamber walls so they grip them pretty hard.

If the brass was slamming the breech face that hard I would think that the headstamp would show it by being smoothed out/erased to some degree or another.

I would love to see a pic of a straight edge against the breech face. I would also love to see what the breech face tests for Rockwell hardness.

All in all an interesting post. Though I'm sorry for your loss!


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Old 01-31-2013, 13:05   #39
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Fortunately I live only one city away from Glock in Smyrna and they told me that I am welcome to bring my G21 up there to have it looked at. So, hopefully I will find out the final verdict tomorrow. And I will tell them the truth, the whole truth and nuthin but the truth because I only want to know if it is safe to shoot with or not, which is the original intention of this post.

And, based on what the Glock guy said, this is not necessarily a common occurrence but it is something that Glock is familiar with.
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Old 01-31-2013, 13:07   #40
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Excellent. Good luck and report back it you would.


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