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Old 01-29-2013, 08:28   #1
Joe32780
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Grip question

Is a Grip Force beaver tail adapter allowed in competition?
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Old 01-29-2013, 09:40   #2
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It would only be allowed in unlimited.
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Old 01-29-2013, 09:53   #3
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Bummer! .......thanks for the response, guess I need some range time without it before Orlando.
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Old 01-29-2013, 11:39   #4
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I think Glock unveiled their version of it at Shot Show... at least for Gen4s?
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Old 01-29-2013, 11:56   #5
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Yes, they are saying they will be available sometime in the middle of the year....they should be legal, since they are made by Glock, I'm assuming.
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Old 01-29-2013, 12:03   #6
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No.

Quote:
Originally Posted by unclebob View Post
It would only be allowed in unlimited.
No.

Aftermarket "beavertails" are allowed in the "stock" categories with Gen-3's & prior, so long as they are not wildly different from the Glock-produced beavertails available for the Gen4's.

You will not find it in the current rules. The 2013 rules are pretty much a repeat of the 2012 rules and that particular change did not get in there.

But it is true. Check with the GSSF RangeMasters at whatever rmatch you attend.


Last edited by Comrade Bork; 01-29-2013 at 12:04..
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Old 01-29-2013, 12:05   #7
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Now I'm confused....lol....I'll check in Orlando.
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Old 01-29-2013, 12:09   #8
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Now I'm confused....lol....I'll check in Orlando.
You are not the only one.
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Old 01-29-2013, 12:11   #9
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I sent Mike a note, if he isn't too busy I'm sure he'll clear it up, at least for Orlando.
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Old 01-29-2013, 12:29   #10
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Originally Posted by Comrade Bork View Post
No.

Aftermarket "beavertails" are allowed in the "stock" categories with Gen-3's & prior, so long as they are not wildly different from the Glock-produced beavertails available for the Gen4's.

You will not find it in the current rules. The 2013 rules are pretty much a repeat of the 2012 rules and that particular change did not get in there.

But it is true. Check with the GSSF RangeMasters at whatever rmatch you attend.

You can bet that I will, since I will be shooting 9 GSSF matches this year and ROing 2 and probably more of them.
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Old 01-29-2013, 15:13   #11
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Originally Posted by Joe32780 View Post
Is a Grip Force beaver tail adapter allowed in competition?
Talked to a guy at GSSF before the Lexington, KY match last year (don't remember his name.......but was told he was director of competition) and he assured me it was allowed in Stock, Competiton, etc. Had it on my G35 Gen 4 for that Competition class, and nothing was pointed out by any of the ROs.


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Old 01-29-2013, 15:35   #12
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Thanks for your input, Guns 'N Hogs.
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Old 01-29-2013, 15:43   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GUNS N' HOGS View Post
Talked to a guy at GSSF before the Lexington, KY match last year (don't remember his name.......but was told he was director of competition) and he assured me it was allowed in Stock, Competiton, etc. Had it on my G35 Gen 4 for that Competition class, and nothing was pointed out by any of the ROs.

Most of the people that RO GSSF matches do not shoot GSSF or have they ever read the rules, or will everything be covered in the RO briefing. But it is something I definitely find out for sure when I go to the Orlando match.
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Old 01-29-2013, 17:19   #14
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Latest printed rules say no. Hopefully there's not much involved in removing it, if that's necessary.
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Old 01-29-2013, 17:50   #15
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No, just one pin.....seems like it would be allowed, since slip-on grips like Hogue are allowed, which is what prompted me to pose the question.
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Old 01-29-2013, 17:54   #16
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No, just one pin.....seems like it would be allowed, since slip-on grips like Hogue are allowed, which is what prompted me to pose the question.
The thing is that it changes the angle of the grip. I hope it will be allowed. It puts the angle of the grip in more in the line of the 1911. But we will see.
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Old 01-29-2013, 18:02   #17
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It is more comfortable for me to shoot, and I don't see where it would give anyone an unfair advantage.
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Old 01-29-2013, 18:31   #18
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Looking at a picture of one, it looks like the main point is to avoid slide bite for those with meatier hands? Yeah...I don't see it as a real competitive advantage...and you could argue it's more of a safety feature than anything else.
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Old 01-29-2013, 18:34   #19
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I use a pretty high grip, and it does offer a little insurance.
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Old 01-29-2013, 18:58   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe32780 View Post
I sent Mike a note, if he isn't too busy I'm sure he'll clear it up, at least for Orlando.
Although Mike's a wonderful guy, he is the CFRPC GSSF Match Coordinator - not a Glock employee who can dictate rules. However, if he has heard the same thing, I'm sure he would tell you.

There are a lot of things that GSSF allows that are not in the rules - or that the rules seem to contradict at times.

Allowed (last I heard... but "tomorrow is another day".):
  • Plastic magwells
  • Plastic beavertails
  • Plastic unweighted grip plugs
  • Aftermarket slide cover plates
  • Decorative embossing/engraving on slide
  • Reshoots for absolutely anything including brain freezes
  • USPSA-type reloads unless specifically forbidden by local venue

There may be more that I am not remembering right now. I try to put these changes in my memory bank as they come along and spit them out when and if necessary at a match.

ETA: Plastic unweighted grip plugs added and "-type" added to USPSA.

Last edited by SARDG; 01-30-2013 at 05:51..
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Old 01-29-2013, 21:28   #21
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What is a USPSA reload?

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Old 01-29-2013, 23:01   #22
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What is a USPSA reload?

Scott
I was afraid that someone would ask that...

Would perhaps been better referred to as USPSA-type reload.

GSSF Rule 130.70 states (emphasis mine):
Make sure you keep the firearm pointed in a safe
direction (towards the targets) at all times especially
when reloading and unloading.
Failure
to do so will disqualify you from the match.

USPSA Rule 8.4.1 states (emphasis mine):
When loading, reloading or unloading during a course of fire, the competitor’s fingers must be visibly outside the trigger guard and the handgun must be pointed safely down range or in another safe direction authorized by a Range Officer (see Section 10.5).

I'm an IDPA SO, and admittedly don't shoot USPSA - but I always seem to recognize USPSA shooters who reload with their muzzle pointing well over the impact berm. IDPA shooters... not so much.

GSSF Rule 130.70 above says "towards the targets".
USPSA Rule 8.4.1 above says "must be pointed safely down range or in another safe direction authorized by a Range Officer"

GSSF is now allowing the muzzle to be in "another safe direction authorized by the Range Officer" - which will not specifically be "towards the targets" and may in fact be over the impact berm.

Keeping the muzzle pointed below the berm will only be required if the specific venue/club has that as a normal club rule.

Last edited by SARDG; 01-29-2013 at 23:07..
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Old 01-30-2013, 05:01   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SARDG View Post
Although Mike's a wonderful guy, he is the CFRPC GSSF Match Coordinator - not a Glock employee who can dictate rules. However, if he has heard the same thing, I'm sure he would tell you.

There are a lot of things that GSSF allows that are not in the rules - or that the rules seem to contradict at times.

Allowed (last I heard... but "tomorrow is another day".):
  • Plastic magwells
  • Plastic beavertails
  • Aftermarket slide cover plates
  • Decorative embossing/engraving on slide
  • Reshoots for absolutely anything including brain freezes
  • USPSA reloads unless specifically forbidden by local venue

There may be more that I am not remembering right now. I try to put these changes in my memory bank as they come along and spit them out when and if necessary at a match.
You mentioned that grip plugs were also legal some time ago... Not sure where all these verbal rules addendums come from, but you might want to add it to your list.
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Old 01-30-2013, 05:48   #24
SARDG
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Originally Posted by __jb View Post
You mentioned that grip plugs were also legal some time ago... Not sure where all these verbal rules addendums come from, but you might want to add it to your list.
Thanks John - absolutely correct; unweighted plastic grip plugs are allowed and now added above. Knew I had to be forgetting something.

These come from GSSF Rangemasters over the last couple of years. I ask a lot of questions and don't hesitate to ask for clarification or rulings when necessary. I'm not going to bust somebody for something that other ROs are letting slide - either because they miss it, or are unsure of the rules.

Although the printed rules haven't kept pace, the tendency at matches has been to allow plastic, unweighted aftermarket parts that, in the minds of GSSF RMs, provide no competitive advantage. If an RO is in doubt, they can notify the shooter and then should clearly write the alleged infraction on the scoresheet and let GSSF sort it out. A competitor could be moved to unlimited if the accessory is judged to be illegal for stock.
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Old 01-30-2013, 06:25   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SARDG View Post
I was afraid that someone would ask that...

Would perhaps been better referred to as USPSA-type reload.

GSSF Rule 130.70 states (emphasis mine):
Make sure you keep the firearm pointed in a safe
direction (towards the targets) at all times especially
when reloading and unloading.
Failure
to do so will disqualify you from the match.

USPSA Rule 8.4.1 states (emphasis mine):
When loading, reloading or unloading during a course of fire, the competitor’s fingers must be visibly outside the trigger guard and the handgun must be pointed safely down range or in another safe direction authorized by a Range Officer (see Section 10.5).

I'm an IDPA SO, and admittedly don't shoot USPSA - but I always seem to recognize USPSA shooters who reload with their muzzle pointing well over the impact berm. IDPA shooters... not so much.

GSSF Rule 130.70 above says "towards the targets".
USPSA Rule 8.4.1 above says "must be pointed safely down range or in another safe direction authorized by a Range Officer"

GSSF is now allowing the muzzle to be in "another safe direction authorized by the Range Officer" - which will not specifically be "towards the targets" and may in fact be over the impact berm.

Keeping the muzzle pointed below the berm will only be required if the specific venue/club has that as a normal club rule.
Some folks will also refer to this as a "tactical" reload. Some of our USPSA and LEO shooters will reload in this manner. Also some will refer to muzzle not breaking the "180" which extends vertically and horizontally.
I too wish that the printed rules would "keep up" and be all inclusive.
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