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Old 01-27-2013, 21:57   #1
Woofie
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Another Religious Issue?

http://aattp.org/atheists-wont-be-al...get-their-way/

Atheists may not be allowed to graduate high school.
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Old 01-27-2013, 23:22   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Woofie View Post
http://aattp.org/atheists-wont-be-al...get-their-way/

Atheists may not be allowed to graduate high school.
Why are you attacking Christianity????

Randy
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Old 01-28-2013, 05:45   #3
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Oh dear. That's going to go over like a lead balloon.

I'm trying to figure out what problem that fixes? I can see several it's going to cause.
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Old 01-28-2013, 07:58   #4
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"it was reported this week that a new proposed law would require students to swear an oath to God (we’re assuming Judeo-Christian) and the Constitution — all as a requirement to graduate high school."

I'm a Bible thumping Christian and even I think this is wrong.

I doubt this is even a valid news story. It's probably taken out of context, misinterpreted, or might even be another leftist attempt to demonize the TEA party.

But on a side note, why do atheists need to go to school?
Don't they already know it all, and have all the answers?
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Old 01-28-2013, 12:19   #5
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I think you have it backwards. All the answers can be found in The Bible.
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Old 01-28-2013, 12:23   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JBnTX View Post
"it was reported this week that a new proposed law would require students to swear an oath to God (we’re assuming Judeo-Christian) and the Constitution — all as a requirement to graduate high school."

I'm a Bible thumping Christian and even I think this is wrong.
On that note, I agree with you 100%.

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...But on a side note, why do atheists need to go to school?
Don't they already know it all, and have all the answers?
Oh, you just couldn't help yourself, could you?

Actually most atheists I know are MUCH more comfortable with saying "I don't have the answer" than most theists I know.

None of the atheists I know say "I know there is no such thing as God.", they all say "I see no evidence to indicate any gods exist." Sounds an awful lot like "I don't know" to me. How about you, JB?

This is not an attempt to imply that there are NO atheists out there that don't say "I *know* there are no such things as gods/dieties.", just that they are strongly in the minority.
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Old 01-28-2013, 12:53   #7
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Oh, you just couldn't help yourself, could you?
I don't know what's wrong with me?
Believe me I try, but that stuff just keeps slipping out.
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Old 01-28-2013, 13:24   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hooligan74 View Post
On that note, I agree with you 100%.



Oh, you just couldn't help yourself, could you?

Actually most atheists I know are MUCH more comfortable with saying "I don't have the answer" than most theists I know.

None of the atheists I know say "I know there is no such thing as God.", they all say "I see no evidence to indicate any gods exist." Sounds an awful lot like "I don't know" to me. How about you, JB?

This is not an attempt to imply that there are NO atheists out there that don't say "I *know* there are no such things as gods/dieties.", just that they are strongly in the minority.


In the wild? Probably. But GT is probably not a good representative sample of the community.


Either way, looks like everyone is in agreement that this is a bad idea. Any idea is this is just one of those occasionally kooky bs things some legislatures do to get attention, or is this thing actually going to reach a vote?
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Old 01-28-2013, 13:30   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JBnTX View Post
I don't know what's wrong with me?
Believe me I try, but that stuff just keeps slipping out.

It's OK. We still like you, JB.

What fun would it be around here if everyone had the same opinions?

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Old 01-28-2013, 13:38   #10
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I looked this up.....

It needs an amendment.

Quote:
Be it enacted by the Legislature of the State of Arizona:
Section 1. Title 15, chapter 7, article 1, Arizona Revised Statutes, is amended by adding section 15-701.03, to read:
15-701.03. Graduation requirement; constitutional oath
BEGINNING IN THE 2013‑2014 SCHOOL YEAR, IN ADDITION TO FULFILLING THE COURSE OF STUDY AND ASSESSMENT REQUIREMENTS PRESCRIBED IN THIS CHAPTER, BEFORE A PUPIL IS ALLOWED TO GRADUATE FROM A PUBLIC HIGH SCHOOL IN THIS STATE, THE PRINCIPAL OR HEAD TEACHER OF THE SCHOOL SHALL VERIFY IN WRITING THAT THE PUPIL HAS RECITED THE FOLLOWING OATH:
I, _________, DO SOLEMNLY SWEAR THAT I WILL SUPPORT AND DEFEND THE CONSTITUTION OF THE UNITED STATES AGAINST ALL ENEMIES, FOREIGN AND DOMESTIC, THAT I WILL BEAR TRUE FAITH AND ALLEGIANCE TO THE SAME; THAT I TAKE THIS OBLIGATION FREELY, WITHOUT ANY MENTAL RESERVATION OR PURPOSE OF EVASION; AND THAT I WILL WELL AND FAITHFULLY DISCHARGE THESE DUTIES; SO HELP ME GOD.

http://legiscan.com/AZ/text/HB2467
It appears to be a "fairly" common oath. However, even the military uses "I, _________, DO SOLEMNLY SWEAR (OR AFFIRM) THAT....." So you could say "I Cavalry Doc do solemnly affirm that."

The other issue is at the end, in the military, there is no requirement to state the last 4 words, those are optional. Looks like it has been referred to committee. Lots of negative comments. This one stood out.

Quote:
Ronnie Applewhite
It's ironic that the first thing a student would have to do to actually keep this oath would be to refuse…
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Old 01-28-2013, 15:27   #11
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How, exactly, do they expect a high school student (ostensibly too young to join the military and/or vote) to "uphold and defend" the Constitution?
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Old 01-28-2013, 15:39   #12
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Quote:
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How, exactly, do they expect a high school student (ostensibly too young to join the military and/or vote) to "uphold and defend" the Constitution?
I enlisted half way through my senior year, and scheduled my departure to Basic Training for 20 days after graduation. I knew exactly what that oath meant. I don't think it's an age issue, it's a "why" issue.

What problem does this law propose to fix? The fact that it's not going to survive the first court challenge makes this a huge waste of time and money.
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Old 01-28-2013, 15:44   #13
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I enlisted half way through my senior year, and scheduled my departure to Basic Training for 20 days after graduation. I knew exactly what that oath meant. I don't think it's an age issue, it's a "why" issue.

What problem does this law propose to fix? The fact that it's not going to survive the first court challenge makes this a huge waste of time and money.

I didn't say it was a question of age, or that high schoolers are incapable of understanding the implications of the oath.

I asked *how* they expected these kids to uphold and defend the Constitution, since they are too young to either vote or enlist, most likely.

Last edited by hooligan74; 01-28-2013 at 15:53.. Reason: kant speel
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Old 01-28-2013, 15:51   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hooligan74 View Post
I didn't say it was a question of age, or that high schoolers are incapable of understanding the implications of the oath.

I asked *how* they expected these kids to uphold and defend the Constittution, since they are too young to either vote or enlist, most likely.
Whoops. Ever misread a post? Well, it just happened to me. But you can enlist at 17. Split Option enlistment, usually for reserve or NG, they do basic over summer before their senior year.

give them an AR 15 and a thousand rounds of ammo as they take the oath as a graduation present???!?

It's silly, there is no making sense of this bill.
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Old 01-28-2013, 16:07   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cavalry Doc View Post
Whoops. Ever misread a post? Well, it just happened to me.
Yep, more than once. No worries.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Cavalry Doc View Post
But you can enlist at 17. Split Option enlistment, usually for reserve or NG, they do basic over summer before their senior year.
Agreed, I was a Guard guy myself. I know about Split Option, but they still aren't really "in" and serving while they are in HS.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cavalry Doc View Post
give them an AR 15 and a thousand rounds of ammo as they take the oath as a graduation present???!?

It's silly, there is no making sense of this bill.
I agree with the bolded part 1000000%. This legislation is just stupid.
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Old 01-28-2013, 17:57   #16
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Americans Against the Tea Party?
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Old 01-28-2013, 18:03   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hooligan74 View Post
Yep, more than once. No worries.




Agreed, I was a Guard guy myself. I know about Split Option, but they still aren't really "in" and serving while they are in HS.



I agree with the bolded part 1000000%. This legislation is just stupid.
Stupid and wasteful. Pandering to a constituency at the price of your constituents. There should be a censure vote.

But anyway. My Grandfather's younger brother was always jealous about my Grandfather and 4 of his brothers joining the navy and going off to WWII after pearl harbor. He "borrowed" one of their birth certificates and enlisted in the Army at the age of 15 to go to Korea. He was a SGT with a Purple Heart and a Bronze star on the boat back home after the war when he told them his real name. He was 17 when they kicked him out, and three weeks later was right back in with a note from his mother to give permission, and even allowed to keep all of his awards. He's one of my heroes. Swore he made every rank he ever had twice, spent 2 tours in Vietnam, Drill SGT, helped watch after my parents when my dad was a young private at Ft. Benning in the Vietnam era, retired as a CSM after 35 years of service, then taught ROTC at a major University for 20 more years. He had a wicked sense of humor and could tell a story better than any 3D movie I've ever seen. Listening to all the old men at our family reunions is probably the number one reason I enlisted and left for basic training 20 days after high school.

The moral of the story is, people age and mature at different rates. Some people are men at 17, some haven't gotten there by 50. I can't tell you how many children I run into that are middle aged. It has nothing to do with military service, and every thing to do with personal responsibility.
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Last edited by Cavalry Doc; 01-28-2013 at 18:03..
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Old 01-28-2013, 18:04   #18
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Quote:
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Americans Against the Tea Party?
Kind of an oxymoron, I know, that's why I looked up the bill itself.
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Old 01-28-2013, 18:41   #19
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Kind of an oxymoron, I know, that's why I looked up the bill itself.
Thank you for looking it up, BTW.
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Old 01-28-2013, 21:27   #20
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Hmm, a topic in RI that seems to draw consensus from theists, atheists and even the resident agnostic alike. Now I've seen everything.

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