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Old 01-30-2013, 16:10   #26
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Originally Posted by wprebeck View Post
Russ,

Even some of the leaders are doing the same. As I've mentioned, and we've all seen posted here on GT, many sheriffs across the country are speaking out about this issue. One of them was from Jackson county, KY - and I have family there (in laws, but still family).

Places as varied as Utah and Wisconsin. Both white and black folks. Demographics mean nothing this time, nor should they. What "does" matter is, Americans are tired of the crap. When police around the nation are saying, "Gun control isn't the solution", then two things should be happening:

Politicians and the liberal left should pay attention. We are on the front lines of this battle, and we know how to better prosecute it than the idiots who spout off lines like "If it only saves one child". We know criminals will be criminals, and making an item illegal will not stop their actions. It's time the left, and the lawmakers, start listening to us.

The second thing that should occur is gun owners waking up. Hey, we're not here to take your guns. While I don't dispute that there is, and always be, "that guy" who does retarded stuff (we all know a Farva in our agency...if you don't, it's likely you). Thing is, "that guy" will likely be doing stuff on his own, if he chooses to do it at all. Alternatively, peer pressure is alive and well, even within LE. Some people may not wish to do the right thing, but will do so simply because everyone else is doing so.

Again, I realize this upsets the fantasies of those who wish to die a glorious death in a pitched gun battle with the evil JBT's of the nation, thus ensuring their place in history. Sorry for the disappointment. We want the good guys to keep their guns, so they can shoot the bad guys, when necessary. It makes for more room in the jail, and ultimately saves money.
Well said.
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Old 01-30-2013, 16:12   #27
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Originally Posted by Beware Owner View Post
This should be cause for celebration. Have any LEO's organized and banded together with the Oath Keepers and Green Berets who are standing up against this tyranny?
The Oathkeepers lost any and all of what respect I might have had for them. They decided to hold a protest in support of a drug dealing piece of crap who pointed a gun at officers who were executing a search warrant.

It was quite the to-do here on GT...until evidence was released showing the dead guy (who happened to be prior service with the USMC, thereby making him worthy of sainthood to some) was involved in a home invasion ring, whereupon folks were impersonating cops and busting down the doors of drug dealers.

So, no - I've got nothing for them.

However, that being said - I agree. Line officers, (some) political leadership, and citizens should be happy that we are all on the same side.


You guys would likely crap a brick if you knew who some of the posters in here were in real life, and the positions they held in LE. As for me, I'm a simple line grunt with a penchant for guns and politics. But, we have amongst us some higher ranking folks in law enforcement. Again, you'd be VERY surprised.
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Old 01-31-2013, 07:20   #28
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Originally Posted by wprebeck View Post
The Oathkeepers lost any and all of what respect I might have had for them. They decided to hold a protest in support of a drug dealing piece of crap who pointed a gun at officers who were executing a search warrant.

It was quite the to-do here on GT...until evidence was released showing the dead guy (who happened to be prior service with the USMC, thereby making him worthy of sainthood to some) was involved in a home invasion ring, whereupon folks were impersonating cops and busting down the doors of drug dealers.

So, no - I've got nothing for them.

However, that being said - I agree. Line officers, (some) political leadership, and citizens should be happy that we are all on the same side.


You guys would likely crap a brick if you knew who some of the posters in here were in real life, and the positions they held in LE. As for me, I'm a simple line grunt with a penchant for guns and politics. But, we have amongst us some higher ranking folks in law enforcement. Again, you'd be VERY surprised.
I think that, for the sake of our country, we should set aside all past troubles and concentrate on organizing a unified civilian/military/LEO front to protect the Constitution.
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Old 01-31-2013, 09:12   #29
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Old 01-31-2013, 09:39   #30
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I respectfully suggest, sir, that statements by those of your profession that those not of your ilk, "just don't get it," and "your not one of us so your opinion is worthless," contributes to the US vs THEM phenomena.

That you and your fellow law enforcement professionals rebut a reasonable argument with, "just another cop hater," speaks volumes.
Tous, do you agree with this?
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Originally Posted by Beware Owner View Post
I think that, for the sake of our country, we should set aside all past troubles and concentrate on organizing a unified civilian/military/LEO front to protect the Constitution.
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Old 01-31-2013, 09:48   #31
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Russ, philosophically, I do agree, but practically, I suggest that we cannot ever ignore that the military and law enforcement professionals are agents of the very government we seek to resist.

They cannot defy despotism whilst working for it.

If all men of honor and good conscience in the military and law enforcement resign, the government will find men on less character to fill the uniforms, wear the badges and wield the weapons, no?

I surely intend no disrespect to anyone, but I cannot trust those that owe their living and family's well-being to the very government that seeks to eliminate what little freedom we have left.
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Old 01-31-2013, 09:50   #32
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We really "are" on your side - and pensions don't much matter to most of us, when it comes time to do the right thing. I have been repeatedly assured that is NOT the case, but the odd thing is: none of those doing the mouth running are cops - and ALL of the ones I've talked to who say they will NOT take guns...are cops.

Hmm...who to believe?
I wouldn't believe the cops simply because they enforce unConstitutional gun laws every day. What they say and what they do are two different things. When they start arresting cops who violate the law, I will start to listen.
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Old 01-31-2013, 10:14   #33
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Well, start listening. It happens regularly.
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Old 01-31-2013, 10:21   #34
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Originally Posted by wprebeck View Post
This story contains the following:

Evil union employees
Law enforcement officers
Guns


So, read at your own risk.

Not a single person disagreed with supporting citizens. Hell, the President of my lodge is a CCDW instructor, and many of the board members are "gun nuts" (I am, as well - just not a board member).

So, the third largest FOP lodge in the state of Kentucky just voted to send a letter to the National President urging him to NOT SUPPORT gun control laws.

Yep. We, the evil union members who wear jackboots, are on your side. And, the numbers of us who are speaking out publicly are growing, as evidenced by numerous threads in this very forum.

So, please keep this in mind before going off on a hate filled spree against LE, mmkay? We really "are" on your side - and pensions don't much matter to most of us, when it comes time to do the right thing. I have been repeatedly assured that is NOT the case, but the odd thing is: none of those doing the mouth running are cops - and ALL of the ones I've talked to who say they will NOT take guns...are cops.

Hmm...who to believe?
Not unexpected in Kentucky, hell at Knob Creek I've seen Kentucky cops shooting the full autos and grinning like boys playing with their first boobie.

NOW, the question is..."Can we expect the same from FOPs in New York, New Jersey, Mass, Illinois, Kommiefornia and all the rest of the repressive states".

I still remember the old woman in New Orleans getting body slammed by a cop to take away her little revolver after Katrina.

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Old 01-31-2013, 10:59   #35
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Russ, philosophically, I do agree, but practically, I suggest that we cannot ever ignore that the military and law enforcement professionals are agents of the very government we seek to resist.
Good, it's good to know you do not agree in practice, in your core beliefs, that we should set aside all past troubles and concentrate on organizing a unified civilian/military/LEO front to protect the Constitution.

An unwillingness to reach out and unify the various groups fighting for the same master goal, to consolidate effort, to delegate tasks with organization instead of haphazardly is foolish. Well, unless your goal is not really to win, but to perpetuate conflict between the groups.
Quote:
Originally Posted by tous View Post
They cannot defy despotism whilst working for it.

If all men of honor and good conscience in the military and law enforcement resign, the government will find men on less character to fill the uniforms, wear the badges and wield the weapons, no?
Look, people sell their services at every level of society. Some are currently prohibited by law, but even then there are others wanting every 'victimless crimes' to be legal.
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I surely intend no disrespect to anyone, but I cannot trust those that owe their living and family's well-being to the very government that seeks to eliminate what little freedom we have left.
Then may I suggest you not demean those working to build those relationships which will bring more supporters of the 2nd Amendment onto our side.

Thanks...
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Old 01-31-2013, 11:18   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wprebeck View Post
This story contains the following:

Evil union employees
Law enforcement officers
Guns


So, read at your own risk.






Well, the event that I was told would never happen (even though it is happening more and more frequently across the country), occurred last night.

I was at our monthly FOP (Fraternal Order of Police) meeting, when the subject of the pending AWB legislation was broached. It seems that, in 1994, the National Lodge supported the ban. Oops.

We were informed last night that a number of lodges from around the country are now sending letters to the National President, urging him to support the 2nd Amendment, and the right of people to bear arms - and to NOT support any further gun control laws. We were also asked to decide, as a group, whether or not to join in this practice.

Not a single person disagreed with supporting citizens. Hell, the President of my lodge is a CCDW instructor, and many of the board members are "gun nuts" (I am, as well - just not a board member).

So, the third largest FOP lodge in the state of Kentucky just voted to send a letter to the National President urging him to NOT SUPPORT gun control laws.

Yep. We, the evil union members who wear jackboots, are on your side. And, the numbers of us who are speaking out publicly are growing, as evidenced by numerous threads in this very forum.

So, please keep this in mind before going off on a hate filled spree against LE, mmkay? We really "are" on your side - and pensions don't much matter to most of us, when it comes time to do the right thing. I have been repeatedly assured that is NOT the case, but the odd thing is: none of those doing the mouth running are cops - and ALL of the ones I've talked to who say they will NOT take guns...are cops.

Hmm...who to believe?

I would like to give you a much deserved thank you.
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Old 01-31-2013, 11:21   #37
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I wouldn't believe the cops simply because they enforce unConstitutional gun laws every day. What they say and what they do are two different things. When they start arresting cops who violate the law, I will start to listen.
Have you read the posts on GT about cops who commit crimes? How about cops who commit crimes while on duty? Do you ever read those here on GT.

http://glocktalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1468202

http://glocktalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1468444

http://glocktalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1465703

http://glocktalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1462688

http://glocktalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1456028

Those are in Cop Talk. Go through GNG and Political Issues for others.

It is happening more frequently than you believe. Just search for it.

Start listening.
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Old 01-31-2013, 15:45   #38
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With all due respect, sir.

No despotic power has ever found a shortage of government employees willing to enforce whatever oppressive policies such a government deems desirable to retain and increase their rule.

I understand that you feel the need to defend your fraternity as composed of individuals of character, but exhortation and fine speeches do little to ease the fear of those of us potentially under your symbolic jack boot.
Well, I have never seized anyone's firearms, unless they were used in the commission of a crime. Usually involving smuggling illicit drugs or people. Nor, do I plan on seizing anyone's guns. Nor will I allow anyone to seize mine.

Good day.
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Old 01-31-2013, 15:52   #39
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I wouldn't believe the cops simply because they enforce unConstitutional gun laws every day. What they say and what they do are two different things. When they start arresting cops who violate the law, I will start to listen.
Please give us some examples.

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Old 01-31-2013, 15:57   #40
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My favorite part of this thread:

I am being "respectfully" insulted. Yay.


To all those who understand, and agree with, what is happening around the nation with regards to law enforcement and a potential AWB - thank you. I look forward to helping preserve the 2nd Amendment, and completely disagree with anyone who thinks gun control is an answer to any sort of crime.

Truth be told, were I made dictator for a day - my first acts on the gun control front would be simple. Repeal NFA 34, GCA 68, and the import ban of 86. If a weapon is considered by the military as a small arm, is not crew served, and is normally carried by an infantryman (HE stuff excluded), then you can have it. Commit a crime with it, and prison for life. Kill someone with it, and we kill you back. Simple, and effective.

For those who don't get it - sorry for your hatred of law enforcement. Sucks to be you, I guess. But, keep on hating, just because you can. It IS America, after all, and you're free to hate whomever you please. It doesn't make sense, but neither does liberal thought on guns. And yes, I'm equating your position on LE to just that. You continue to ignore all evidence, both anecdotal here in GT, along with events nationwide that are making the news, in favor of your biased and illogical prejudice.

Good luck with that. The rest of us will be busy resisting Obama's attempts at gun control, presenting a united front. You guys stand in the back, and be quiet.
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Old 01-31-2013, 16:03   #41
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We are specifically agents sworn to uphold the Constitution and the greater good of society.

So are Politicians and the President that are trying everyday to take away Freedoms and Rights
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Old 01-31-2013, 16:06   #42
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We are specifically agents sworn to uphold the Constitution and the greater good of society.

So are Politicians and the President that are trying everyday to take away Freedoms and Rights

Yes, but the like and admire them. Ironic.
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Old 01-31-2013, 16:09   #43
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My favorite part of this thread:

I am being "respectfully" insulted. Yay.


To all those who understand, and agree with, what is happening around the nation with regards to law enforcement and a potential AWB - thank you. I look forward to helping preserve the 2nd Amendment, and completely disagree with anyone who thinks gun control is an answer to any sort of crime.

Truth be told, were I made dictator for a day - my first acts on the gun control front would be simple. Repeal NFA 34, GCA 68, and the import ban of 86. If a weapon is considered by the military as a small arm, is not crew served, and is normally carried by an infantryman (HE stuff excluded), then you can have it. Commit a crime with it, and prison for life. Kill someone with it, and we kill you back. Simple, and effective.

For those who don't get it - sorry for your hatred of law enforcement. Sucks to be you, I guess. But, keep on hating, just because you can. It IS America, after all, and you're free to hate whomever you please. It doesn't make sense, but neither does liberal thought on guns. And yes, I'm equating your position on LE to just that. You continue to ignore all evidence, both anecdotal here in GT, along with events nationwide that are making the news, in favor of your biased and illogical prejudice.

Good luck with that. The rest of us will be busy resisting Obama's attempts at gun control, presenting a united front. You guys stand in the back, and be quiet.
I get it. I too think the NFA should be repealed and that anything availible to the U.S. intrantry should be available to United States Citizens who are not violent felons.

I also believe that everyone is responsible for every round they fire, period.
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Old 01-31-2013, 16:20   #44
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I think the support of the various law enforcement agencies across the country against the President's gun control measures is the strongest defense we have, even more so than the NRA. The average non gun owner has a negative impression of the NRA, and the mainstream media has an outright bias against it. When Sheriffs and Police unions speak out publicly against the proposals it takes the wind right out of the proponents sails. What can they argue, that the police don't know what works on the streets? Hardly. I, for one, see this as the key component to successfully defending our 2nd Amendment rights, and I'm an NRA lifer. Thanks to any, and all, that are joining together to stand up and be counted.
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Old 01-31-2013, 16:40   #45
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I appreciate the support from this and any lodge of the FOP that speaks out for liberty.

Been impressed in general at the response from LEOs in many areas at the mention of more bans.

So, thanks from me.

Actually, considering the bias against anything pro-2A in the MSM, been very impressed at the level of pro-2A news I am hearing.
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Old 01-31-2013, 17:16   #46
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Truth be told, were I made dictator for a day - my first acts on the gun control front would be simple. Repeal NFA 34, GCA 68, and the import ban of 86. If a weapon is considered by the military as a small arm, is not crew served, and is normally carried by an infantryman (HE stuff excluded), then you can have it. Commit a crime with it, and prison for life. Kill someone with it, and we kill you back. Simple, and effective.
Simple way to deter crime is make the penalty far worse than the crime.

What? Not fair? You do not like that? You prefer "kill someone and in turn you get 10 years in jail?" Yeah, that's a deterrent.
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Old 01-31-2013, 18:18   #47
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Here is a big thank you and well done to wprebeck and his FOP brothers
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Old 01-31-2013, 18:28   #48
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Originally Posted by tous View Post
Russ, philosophically, I do agree, but practically, I suggest that we cannot ever ignore that the military and law enforcement professionals are agents of the very government we seek to resist.

They cannot defy despotism whilst working for it.

If all men of honor and good conscience in the military and law enforcement resign, the government will find men on less character to fill the uniforms, wear the badges and wield the weapons, no?

I surely intend no disrespect to anyone, but I cannot trust those that owe their living and family's well-being to the very government that seeks to eliminate what little freedom we have left.
well said

and he loves quoting .



it made my head spin , wow

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Old 01-31-2013, 18:36   #49
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I for one appreciate the thread, and find it encouraging that the tide appears to be changing, across the Country.

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Old 01-31-2013, 18:37   #50
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Here is a big thank you and well done to wprebeck and his FOP brothers


We can achieve much more rowing in the same direction, as both individuals or groups.

http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/show....php?t=1466194
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