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Old 02-02-2013, 10:40   #26
Vic Hays
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Most people do not realize that it was the Son that created everything. It was the Son that wrote the words of the Covenant, the Ten Commandments, with His finger in the stone Tables of the Covenant. Jesus is and was the lawgiver.

Jesus at this time has all authority in heaven and earth. After everything is subdued by Jesus, He will give that authority back to the Father. Jesus by reason of His birth among men is forever linked to mankind. This link allows our salvation.

Jesus is worthy.

Revelation 5:9 And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;
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John 3:17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
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Old 02-02-2013, 10:48   #27
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I am pretty sure the Jewish members would disagree with your interpretation of THEIR old testament.
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Old 02-02-2013, 12:55   #28
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I am pretty sure the Jewish members would disagree with your interpretation of THEIR old testament.
Well Brasso is Jewish, I dont think he disagrees. Also, it is NOT the jewish Old Test. The entire Bible is Gods word to Mankind.
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Old 02-02-2013, 13:27   #29
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I assume Brasso can speak for himself, but if he is truly Jewish, then I doubt he believes that Jesus created the world in Genesis.
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Old 02-02-2013, 14:20   #30
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I want to believe what FCoulter is saying is true. The Father could not be revealed until reconciliation had taken place.Before that only the Promise was revealed.
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Old 02-02-2013, 14:34   #31
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John 1 states clearly in the beginning was the Word, and the Word was God, and the Word was with God (The Father).

No contradictions only misunderstandings.

I follow the version taught throughout the Bible, sadly mainstream Christianity has missed the mark.
Interesting... when do you think John 1 was written?
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Old 02-02-2013, 15:13   #32
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Interesting... when do you think John 1 was written?
The books of the New Testament were written between 26 and 96 AD, a period of almost seventy years. As internal evidence reveals, Jesus’ disciples recorded His message and began to circulate these writings throughout Palestine and the Empire at a very early date. These documents were later collected into the Gospel accounts— Matthew’s account may have appeared as early as 35 AD; Mark wrote his account shortly after, in 42 AD, and Luke wrote his account around 59 AD. The Gospel of John also was written about 42 AD.
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Old 02-02-2013, 15:14   #33
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I assume Brasso can speak for himself, but if he is truly Jewish, then I doubt he believes that Jesus created the world in Genesis.
Believe it or not there are many Messianic Jewish believers.
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Old 02-02-2013, 15:47   #34
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What version of Christianity do you follow by the way?
his own special version...........really special
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Old 02-02-2013, 17:17   #35
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The books of the New Testament were written between 26 and 96 AD, a period of almost seventy years. As internal evidence reveals, Jesus’ disciples recorded His message and began to circulate these writings throughout Palestine and the Empire at a very early date. These documents were later collected into the Gospel accounts— Matthew’s account may have appeared as early as 35 AD; Mark wrote his account shortly after, in 42 AD, and Luke wrote his account around 59 AD. The Gospel of John also was written about 42 AD.
So you are accepting John's interpretation of scripture written about 6 or 700 years prior? Not only that but it was passed along via oral tradition for about another 700 years before that. When God says that Adam had become like "US" this is a clear connection to the fact that the ancient Israelites were polytheistic... hence the whole "No God's Before Me". You can't use John as proof that God was talking about Jesus as it was written well after. Just because it's old doesn't mean it's correct. Especially when the tale it's trying to reconcile is even older.
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Old 02-02-2013, 22:32   #36
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The Word later became known as Jesus, The Word was and is never The Father. They are only ONE in thought and action. Not ONE in personage.
Then it would be correct to say that Jesus ordered the genocides in the Old Testament and handed down the legal code that dictated punishments such as execution for not respecting one's parents and endorsed the practice of slavery?
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Old 02-03-2013, 00:08   #37
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The Word!
Jesus ordered people be put to the sword? What about Thou Shalt Not Kill?
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Old 02-03-2013, 00:17   #38
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Also, it is NOT the jewish Old Test. The entire Bible is Gods word to Mankind.
Noooo the Jews were God's chosen people. The original portions of the bible were for them. The parts added later (That you seem to think reinterprets the originals) brought everyone else in.
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Old 02-03-2013, 04:53   #39
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So you are accepting John's interpretation of scripture written about 6 or 700 years prior? Not only that but it was passed along via oral tradition for about another 700 years before that. When God says that Adam had become like "US" this is a clear connection to the fact that the ancient Israelites were polytheistic... hence the whole "No God's Before Me". You can't use John as proof that God was talking about Jesus as it was written well after. Just because it's old doesn't mean it's correct. Especially when the tale it's trying to reconcile is even older.
2Tim.3:16
All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and isprofitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness

I never said the "us" in Gen. Was Jesus only.


John 1 clearly shows in the beginning was the Word, and the Word was God, and the Word was with God. This is clearly showing that in the 1 God family there are more than 1 member. John 17 shows that those in the God family are 1 in thought and action, NOT 1 in person.


Now lets stay on topic, I am beginning to see the trolls emerging and as stated in the OP, will be delt with.

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Old 02-03-2013, 04:54   #40
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Jesus ordered people be put to the sword? What about Thou Shalt Not Kill?
No the command is thou shall not murder, big difference from thou shall not kill.
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Old 02-03-2013, 04:58   #41
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Noooo the Jews were God's chosen people. The original portions of the bible were for them. The parts added later (That you seem to think reinterprets the originals) brought everyone else in.
Nope the jews are comprise of 2 of the tribes of Israel. The whole house of Israel is Gods chosen people.

See what I mean, when I say the Bible doesnt contradict itself, only people misinterpret it.
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Old 02-03-2013, 05:13   #42
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I want to believe what FCoulter is saying is true. The Father could not be revealed until reconciliation had taken place.Before that only the Promise was revealed.
Moses received a partial revelation of God.

Exodus 33:21 And the LORD said, Behold, there is a place by me, and thou shalt stand upon a rock:
Exodus 33:22 And it shall come to pass, while my glory passeth by, that I will put thee in a clift of the rock, and will cover thee with my hand while I pass by:
Exodus 33:23 And I will take away mine hand, and thou shalt see my back parts: but my face shall not be seen.

Exodus 34:6 And the LORD passed by before him, and proclaimed, The LORD, The LORD God, merciful and gracious, longsuffering, and abundant in goodness and truth,

So it was that the Lords glory and especially His character was beginning to be revealed along with the revelation of His Ten Commandment covenant.
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Old 02-03-2013, 07:10   #43
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2Tim.3:16
All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and isprofitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness
What about the Gospel of Judas?
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Old 02-03-2013, 07:12   #44
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Nope the jews are comprise of 2 of the tribes of Israel. The whole house of Israel is Gods chosen people.

See what I mean, when I say the Bible doesnt contradict itself, only people misinterpret it.
Oh it contradicts itself plenty. But many religious folk pound the puzzle pieces until they force them to fit the way they want them too.
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Old 02-03-2013, 07:13   #45
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No the command is thou shall not murder, big difference from thou shall not kill.
And what would you call the slaying of neighboring people because they wouldn't pay tribute?
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Old 02-03-2013, 07:42   #46
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I wondered how long that would take.

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Old 02-03-2013, 07:54   #47
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And what would you call the slaying of neighboring people because they wouldn't pay tribute?
I can answer all your questions no problem. However, you are not on topic with this thread, and I sense you are here with an agenda which will not be allowed in this thread. This is my last warning stay on topic, no trolling or I will report your agenda.

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Old 02-04-2013, 05:19   #48
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I can answer all your questions no problem. However, you are not on topic with this thread, and I sense you are here with an agenda which will not be allowed in this thread. This is my last warning stay on topic, no trolling or I will report your agenda.
I am on topic. You are perpetuating the idea that it was in fact Christ that created the earth and heavens in genesis. And that the Father wasn't revealed until much later. If this is the case it was Christ that ordained the horrors allowed in the OT via God's laws and commands. Things like murder, rape, and slavery. This is HIGHLY contradictory to the Son's message later in the NT. In the more traditional Christian view that it was Yaweh in the OT who is known to be a jealous and wrathful God and Christ in the NT who came full of love and forgiveness this lends a bit of a wall of separation. However with what you are presenting... it was always Christ... and this either makes Christ a giant hypocrite or a liar. You can't call it trolling just because I disagree with you. Well, I guess you can, but you'd be also wrong about that as well.

Oh, and you didn't answer any of my questions.

What about the Word commanding the Israelites to put those that wouldn't pay tribute to the sword?

What about the Gospel of Judas? It was a group of men that decided this was not good scripture yet it's author would claim Divine Inspiration. This is in response to your quote that "All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness". What about the MANY Gospels left out. What MAN is to say they are also not inspired by God?

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Old 02-04-2013, 23:45   #49
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And the truce is over just that quick?
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I wondered how long that would take.
What is it you are trying to imply?

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...This is my last warning stay on topic, no trolling or I will report your agenda.
Man the threats are flying around. God forbid we have theological disagreements.
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Old 02-05-2013, 09:46   #50
Vic Hays
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Man the threats are flying around. God forbid we have theological disagreements.
You are correct. Hijacking the thread is trolling and not a theological disagreement.

The topic is, "When was the Father revealed". The threats will probably stop when a reasonable discussion is pursued.
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