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Old 02-07-2013, 12:56   #51
Gills63
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So the bible only makes sense to those who unquestionably believe in it? Interesting notion. So anybody that admits the bible has contradictions is also admitting they are are not touched by the holy spirit. Good way to prevent people from questioning isnt it?

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Old 02-07-2013, 13:19   #52
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So the bible only makes sense to those who unquestionably believe in it? Interesting notion. So anybody that admits the bible has contradictions is also admitting they are are not touched by the holy spirit. Good way to prevent people from questioning isnt it?
It is convenient that's for sure.
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Old 02-07-2013, 13:30   #53
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In the minds of the religious, "discernment" is considered to be more laudible than logic and reason, endowing them with an almost Orwellian ability to deny the truth.
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Old 02-07-2013, 15:10   #54
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So the bible only makes sense to those who unquestionably believe in it? Interesting notion. So anybody that admits the bible has contradictions is also admitting they are are not touched by the holy spirit. Good way to prevent people from questioning isnt it?

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I assume that since you did not quote me that this twisted mess is your interpretation of what I posted. Here are the answers to your questions.

1. The Bible only makes sense to those who let God lead them to understand it.

John 16:13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.

2. It is only logical that changes from the oldest manuscripts are changes in some way. There are a few of these, but the Bible is actually pretty much unchanged for the most part.

3. if you are seeking to disprove the existence of God by attacking the Bible, it has withstood the test of time. Much smarter people tan you have failed to do this.
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Old 02-07-2013, 17:39   #55
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I'm not trying dissprove the existence of anything. And I appreciate you not trying to dissprove my point. Yes the bible has stood the test of time and all it took was multiple schisms and centuries of torturing and murdering those who didn't agree with it. Lots of people more in touch with the Holy Spirit then you have attempted to explain the contradictions and inherent short comings and failed.

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Old 02-07-2013, 17:47   #56
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And it sort of silly to quote the bible since according to you I can't understand it. Your logic is akin to me buying a book on how to read Japanese that is written only in Japanese. How can I get the message of the bible if understanding the bible is a prerequisite to doing so? Makes for horrible recruitment literature.

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Old 02-07-2013, 19:40   #57
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I'm not trying dissprove the existence of anything. And I appreciate you not trying to dissprove my point. Yes the bible has stood the test of time and all it took was multiple schisms and centuries of torturing and murdering those who didn't agree with it. Lots of people more in touch with the Holy Spirit then you have attempted to explain the contradictions and inherent short comings and failed.

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Correction: The Bible gives no leeway for Christian believers to kill based on belief or unbelief. Those who did so were not in harmony with Jesus teaching and therefore not led by the Spirit to kill. That is the evil side that is responsible for this.

This just proves that the Bible correctly predicted that men would do all manner of evil in the name of The Lord.

Matthew 24:9 Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake.
Matthew 24:10 And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another.
Matthew 24:11 And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.
Matthew 24:12 And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.
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Old 02-07-2013, 19:44   #58
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And it sort of silly to quote the bible since according to you I can't understand it. Your logic is akin to me buying a book on how to read Japanese that is written only in Japanese. How can I get the message of the bible if understanding the bible is a prerequisite to doing so? Makes for horrible recruitment literature.

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Yes, you again missed the point that it is the Spirit of God that gives understanding, not your own wisdom.

The Holy Spirit is not limited by your understanding. If you wish to understand Truth you must ask God for understanding.
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Old 02-07-2013, 19:56   #59
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Luke 11:9 And I say unto you, Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you.
Luke 11:10 For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened.
Luke 11:11 If a son shall ask bread of any of you that is a father, will he give him a stone? or if he ask a fish, will he for a fish give him a serpent?
Luke 11:12 Or if he shall ask an egg, will he offer him a scorpion?
Luke 11:13 If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children: how much more shall your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him?
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Old 02-07-2013, 22:39   #60
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And it sort of silly to quote the bible since according to you I can't understand it. Your logic is akin to me buying a book on how to read Japanese that is written only in Japanese. How can I get the message of the bible if understanding the bible is a prerequisite to doing so? Makes for horrible recruitment literature.

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When pressed Christians like Vic can only resort to quoting the Bible. It is the only "evidence" they have. It's like referencing the "Night Before Christmas" poem as proof of Santa.
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Old 02-08-2013, 14:13   #61
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When pressed Christians like Vic can only resort to quoting the Bible. It is the only "evidence" they have. It's like referencing the "Night Before Christmas" poem as proof of Santa.
Someone wrote the NBC and they did not claim to be Santa.

God wrote the Ten Commandments and He did claim to be the Creator God.

Exodus 20:11 For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.
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Old 02-08-2013, 20:12   #62
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So if the author would have claimed to be Santa that would have been relevant to you? Actually a man said a bush claiming to be God told him the ten commandments. A short time later that man's flaming shrubbery ordered the killing of first born children. Then the bush used the shrub talker as bait to lure a foreign army into a position where he was able to mercilessly drown them.


Why did it take almost a week to create something that could have been done in the blink of an eye... someones being dramatic. And the Sabbath day is Saturday, right? Did this creator really require a coffee break on the seventh day? Couldn't God have saved everyone a lot of trouble and just not made that forbidden fruit? You could argue that it was a matter of free will, but that sort of goes out the window when one can see the future. God knew where that free will would lead.


The reason these questions are never addressed by the "faithful" is because faith dictates that you overlook the problems because people aren't supposed to question/understands God's plan. Kind of like when a child questions a parent and the parents best response is "Because I said so". Faith is to reality what salt is to food...If you apply it liberally enough everything is easier to swallow.



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Old 02-08-2013, 22:45   #63
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So if the author would have claimed to be Santa that would have been relevant to you? Actually a man said a bush claiming to be God told him the ten commandments. A short time later that man's flaming shrubbery ordered the killing of first born children. Then the bush used the shrub talker as bait to lure a foreign army into a position where he was able to mercilessly drown them.


Why did it take almost a week to create something that could have been done in the blink of an eye... someones being dramatic. And the Sabbath day is Saturday, right? Did this creator really require a coffee break on the seventh day? Couldn't God have saved everyone a lot of trouble and just not made that forbidden fruit? You could argue that it was a matter of free will, but that sort of goes out the window when one can see the future. God knew where that free will would lead.


The reason these questions are never addressed by the "faithful" is because faith dictates that you overlook the problems because people aren't supposed to question/understands God's plan. Kind of like when a child questions a parent and the parents best response is "Because I said so". Faith is to reality what salt is to food...If you apply it liberally enough everything is easier to swallow.



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These questions have all been addressed and God's plan has been revealed. You are just ignorant of it.

1 Corinthians 2:9 But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him.

1 Corinthians 2:10 But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.
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Old 02-08-2013, 23:13   #64
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Correction: The Bible gives no leeway for Christian believers to kill based on belief or unbelief. Those who did so were not in harmony with Jesus teaching and therefore not led by the Spirit to kill. That is the evil side that is responsible for this.
Who commanded the Israelites to put people to the sword?
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Old 02-08-2013, 23:16   #65
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God wrote very little Himself. I suppose that was so there would be no question. Even this has been distorted by man.

It is not the letter that is inspired, it is the true meaning. The wicked do not understand because they are fighting the Spirit of God.

Daniel 12:10 Many shall be purified, and made white, and tried; but the wicked shall do wickedly: and none of the wicked shall understand; but the wise shall understand.
So you're just going to make excuses for the contradictions?

Are you saying there is a version of the bible where there are no contradictions but it has been lost to time and all we have left is mans corrupted copies? If so you only need prove that this perfect original copy existed.
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Old 02-09-2013, 00:28   #66
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Vic I notice the vast majority of your responses are merely quoting scripture. Don't you have thoughts of your own to discuss? Just because questions have been answered doesn't mean they have been so correctly. If the scripture you are quoting does in fact answer the questions that I have raised, a brief explanation would be appreciated. As you have pointed out, more then once, I am quite ignorant.

Understand Vic, that I respect the bible as a great book of wisdom. There are many valuable lessons contained within it, heck I'm not above quoting from time to time. Its when people start attempting to link it together and making it an end all, be all that I get all "ignorant". I have several decades of "church-going" and a decade and a half of formal christian education under my belt. So undertand I've attempted to believe and gave it earnst attempts. Why? I believe because I, like most people, have a desire to belong; to not be an outsider, an outcast. Unfortunately, I couldn't "favor with faith" enough of what I knew to take that proverbial leap of faith. So understand, I mean you and your beliefs no disrespect. I find religion to be a powerful and interesting part of our world.



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Old 02-09-2013, 00:29   #67
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Sorry about the lack of spacing, my phone app is disregarding my spacing lately.

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Old 02-09-2013, 05:33   #68
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Understand Vic, that I respect the bible as a great book of wisdom. There are many valuable lessons contained within it, heck I'm not above quoting from time to time. Its when people start attempting to link it together and making it an end all, be all that I get all "ignorant". I have several decades of "church-going" and a decade and a half of formal christian education under my belt. So undertand I've attempted to believe and gave it earnst attempts. Why? I believe because I, like most people, have a desire to belong; to not be an outsider, an outcast. Unfortunately, I couldn't "favor with faith" enough of what I knew to take that proverbial leap of faith. So understand, I mean you and your beliefs no disrespect. I find religion to be a powerful and interesting part of our world.



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Without the Creator God the Bible becomes just another book. You have probably become disappointed by the behaviors and hypocrisy of those who claim to be Christian. So did I at one time.

Faith and belief in God starts with believing that there is a Truth.
If there is a Truth, there is a plan and a purpose for my life. There is therefore a planner. Without purpose my life becomes meaningless. I choose to believe that my life has purpose and meaning.

I examined the Bible with the intent to find Truth, not every little error that may have crept in by imperfect copying or editing. Truth is still there in the Bible. The important Truths of the Bible are repeated many times so there can be no misunderstanding for the diligent student.

Any questions that you may have I would be willing to answer one at a time so that they might be clear to you. It is like looking for pearls.

Matthew 13:45 Again, the kingdom of heaven is like unto a merchant man, seeking goodly pearls:
Matthew 13:46 Who, when he had found one pearl of great price, went and sold all that he had, and bought it.
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Old 02-09-2013, 10:44   #69
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Without the Creator God the Bible becomes just another book. You have probably become disappointed by the behaviors and hypocrisy of those who claim to be Christian. So did I at one time.
Christians have always been a disappointment to mankind. As well as poison.

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Faith and belief in God starts with believing that there is a Truth.
If there is a Truth, there is a plan and a purpose for my life. There is therefore a planner. Without purpose my life becomes meaningless. I choose to believe that my life has purpose and meaning.
That's fine if that's what you need to believe to make yourself feel better. But the problem is that you insist on spreading your religion like a cancer.

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I examined the Bible with the intent to find Truth, not every little error that may have crept in by imperfect copying or editing. Truth is still there in the Bible. The important Truths of the Bible are repeated many times so there can be no misunderstanding for the diligent student.
Please illustrate where you found this original copy of the bible that is pure and uncorrupted and without errors.
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Old 02-10-2013, 06:51   #70
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That's fine if that's what you need to believe to make yourself feel better. But the problem is that you insist on spreading your religion like a cancer.
I really feel sorry for the bitterness that is burning inside you. It will only continue to grow worse until it consumes you.

The Bible predicted both the unreasonable hatred and the spread of Christianity long ago.

Matthew 10:22 And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved.


Matthew 24:14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

You might as well be trying to stop the wind.

You could have it another way if you would accept it.

John 14:27 Peace I leave with you, my peace I give unto you: not as the world giveth, give I unto you. Let not your heart be troubled, neither let it be afraid.
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Old 02-10-2013, 12:15   #71
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When pressed Christians like Vic can only resort to quoting the Bible. It is the only "evidence" they have. It's like referencing the "Night Before Christmas" poem as proof of Santa.
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Someone wrote the NBC and they did not claim to be Santa.

God wrote the Ten Commandments and He did claim to be the Creator God.

Exodus 20:11 For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.
You just did it again. A man wrote the Ten Commandments just like a man wrote TNBC. You're right though Moore didn't claim Santa wrote it.

What's written in the Bible isn't evidence of anything except what is written in the Bible no matter how much one believes otherwise. That said, there are some great life lessons and advice contained within even if God did not author it.

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Old 02-10-2013, 12:26   #72
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I really feel sorry for the bitterness that is burning inside you. It will only continue to grow worse until it consumes you.
It gets better every year, the more and more your mythology dies out. Don't know if I'd call it bitterness though. More like just being fed up watching grown adults ruin our world with make believe nonsense. You can point the finger at me all you like. It is you who are unable to defend the blatant falsehoods in your magic book. So you make excuses and more fairy tales and nonsense that you can't back up. You have to create more lies to explain away the lies in your bible.

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The Bible predicted both the unreasonable hatred and the spread of Christianity long ago.

You might as well be trying to stop the wind.
That's what makes me so glad it is dying in America. You people are losing your jihad on non-believers. In all of the more advanced cultures in this world... your mythology is becoming more and more of a joke. You can spread it to all the third world hell holes you like. It's just important that we make sure people like you don't halt progress.

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Old 02-10-2013, 12:59   #73
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It gets better every year, the more and more your mythology dies out. Don't know if I'd call it bitterness though. More like just being fed up watching grown adults ruin our world with make believe nonsense. You can point the finger at me all you like. It is you who are unable to defend the blatant falsehoods in your magic book. So you make excuses and more fairy tales and nonsense that you can't back up. You have to create more lies to explain away the lies in your bible.



That's what makes me so glad it is dying in America. You people are losing your jihad on non-believers. In all of the more advanced cultures in this world... your mythology is becoming more and more of a joke. You can spread it to all the third world hell holes you like. It's just important that we make sure people like you don't halt progress.
Number of Agnosticism followers in the world:11.77% (799,190,323 people).Number of Atheist in the world: 2.32% (157,529,444 people).


Not to worried about atheists taking over.
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