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Old 02-06-2013, 00:37   #1
firemax
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Gougers, leaches, ticks, and just plain old parasites

I can't help but notice the amount of over priced items in the classified sections of all the 4m's I'm on. I can tell you this: I am compiling a list of all those who are trying to sell Glock mag's, ammo, loading supplies, and AR type rifles and mag's for twice what they are worth. If the ***** ever does hit the fan, these people will not be able to be trusted. They are trying to take advantage of you now, what will these leaches do when they get hungry. I saw a POS Keltech Sub 2000 for a sale price of $950.00. Anyone who would buy that POS for more than $295.00 is out of their mind. How do I know that? I had one and sold it for that because It was inaccurate and felt like a toy gun. It is not a gun you can count on. My brother-in-law told me he would sell me an Ar15 for $950.00. It was worth more than that six months ago. He is someone I trust and would do anything for. He has integrity. Something the gougers lack. These people are the reason the prices are sky rocketing and they are the reason it is so hard to get things we all need. These people are what is wrong with this country. Bottom feeders always muddy up the water for the rest of us. Gun shops are just now starting to sell a limit of two to three pounds of powder and two to three boxes of shells. They are learning that they actually hurt themselves because they are out of stock and laying off sales people. Make your own list, because you may regret dealing with them later on. Some would sell their own mother to get what they wanted. I really wouldn't care if it didn't drive up the prices for the rest of us, but it does.
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Old 02-06-2013, 00:51   #2
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unfortunately gouging only exists on necessities .
in a free market supply and demand set the prices . everyone has a right not to buy or sell to folks they dont want to ,but with everything out of stock , that why thing are as they are

it will all calm down

one company i use that stuck to their prices is DSGARMS , they get business from me , place like cheaper then dirt will never see a penny from me ,
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Old 02-06-2013, 01:06   #3
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A lot of things are out of stock because of hoarding. I've seen it with my own eyes. I was at Cabellas and saw a guy with a cart nearly full of powder and brass. He was just one of many I could tell you of. When you but 50 AR mags at $20.00 and sell them for $40, It is not supply and demand. It is caused by hoarding and greed. You do that and you are robbing someone else of the chance to purchase it without paying you $20 more for it. Then the store has to order more, THEN there is a shortage demand. But it started with greed. Others just buy more than they will ever need out of fear and hoarding. Both drive up demand and then prices. It is simple economics that overspending drives inflation, on all levels.

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Old 02-06-2013, 01:14   #4
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I thought that was the point of prepping...get gold, ammo and food. Things other people want. So when the SHTF you can get what ever you want.

Well... Guess what. The SHTF.

God forbid someone makes a buck.
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Old 02-06-2013, 01:32   #5
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I thought that was the point of prepping...get gold, ammo and food. Things other people want. So when the SHTF you can get what ever you want.

Well... Guess what. The SHTF.

God forbid someone makes a buck.
I am a businessman. I know the difference between "making a buck" and gouging. One doesn't hurt everyone else, the other does. The minute you forget the ramifications of your actions to make a buck, you will probably hurt others to get ahead. The stuff didn't hit the fan yet. It will be a whole different world if and when it truly does.
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Old 02-06-2013, 01:36   #6
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Cry me a river. Don't buy if you think its priced high. Oh and btw, I haven't seen a keltech 2000 for $295 in I don't know how many years.
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Old 02-06-2013, 01:37   #7
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How is it gouging when the buyer agrees to the seller's price?
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Old 02-06-2013, 01:43   #8
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Getting tired of the shortages and gouging too.
I refuse to pay the prices im seeing on the things I use.
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Old 02-06-2013, 01:48   #9
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The year was 1987. The subject was silver. People went to prison for it. Why? Figure it out for your self. I can't say it any clearer than i did above.
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Old 02-06-2013, 01:50   #10
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Thanks slug 71. I am with you. I don't pay and I don't cry. But i do voice my opinion and call a spade a spade.
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Old 02-06-2013, 01:54   #11
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I am a businessman. I know the difference between "making a buck" and gouging. One doesn't hurt everyone else, the other does. The minute you forget the ramifications of your actions to make a buck, you will probably hurt others to get ahead. The stuff didn't hit the fan yet. It will be a whole different world if and when it truly does.
Well, then its a simple matter of just charging a fair price. So why not take advantage of your superior ethics and business sense. You could open a gun store and charge fair prices for all those high cap mags and soon to be banned rifles. People will flock to you store and praise your benevolence.

Oh wait...you can't get any products to stock your shelves...

Well...good luck with that.
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Old 02-06-2013, 01:55   #12
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The year was 1987. The subject was silver. People went to prison for it. Why? Figure it out for your self. I can't say it any clearer than i did above.
What did they do that specifically sent people to prison?

Charge too much? I don't think so.
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Old 02-06-2013, 02:00   #13
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Say for example, that I've been buying ammo and mags for years. I bought them when they were cheap, plentiful and nobody cared. I have a stock pile.

I paid $5 for AR mags years ago. Should I sell at the then market price, or should I sell them at the current market price. If I sell them at the current market price, am I gouging?

Say I put that same magazine on an auction site. The buyers bid and set the price they are willing to pay. Am I gouging if the winner is willing to pay 10x my original purchase price?
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Old 02-06-2013, 02:08   #14
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How is it gouging when the buyer agrees to the seller's price?
It's not gouging. It's greed.
And the buyers are the ones causing this mess.

I can understand about the mags.
But the ammo?! Just ridiculous.

Was just looking online for. 22 lr ammo and one of the places didn't expect one of the brands until 14th Oct. 2013!!
Nobody has .22 lr in stock.
Sure as **** there is 37 pages on Gunbroker with all kinds of bulk packs of .22. At least double the price though.
37 pages.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Bird View Post
I thought that was the point of prepping...get gold, ammo and food. Things other people want. So when the SHTF you can get what ever you want.

Well... Guess what. The SHTF.

God forbid someone makes a buck.
I'm all for someone making a buck or 5 or 10. But double the price?! At least. Sorry but thats just greed.

This is hardly SHTF. They're not going to ban ammo. The mag and AWB thing is still in the air and at least a year out if anything does pass. I think there is a good chance nothing will.
It all seems about the background checks at the moment. That and trafficking.
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Old 02-06-2013, 02:12   #15
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Say I put that same magazine on an auction site. The buyers bid and set the price they are willing to pay. Am I gouging if the winner is willing to pay 10x my original purchase price?
It's an auction, so no you would not be gouging.

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I paid $5 for AR mags years ago. Should I sell at the then market price, or should I sell them at the current market price. If I sell them at the current market price, am I gouging?
Current market value *to me* is the current prices advertised on the populer sites(excl. CTD), not Gunbroker or forum prices.
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Old 02-06-2013, 02:23   #16
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Originally Posted by Slug71 View Post
It's not gouging. It's greed.
And the buyers are the ones causing this mess.

I can understand about the mags.
But the ammo?! Just ridiculous.

Was just looking online for. 22 lr ammo and one of the places didn't expect one of the brands until 14th Oct. 2013!!
Nobody has .22 lr in stock.
Sure as **** there is 37 pages on Gunbroker with all kinds of bulk packs of .22. At least double the price though.
37 pages.

I'm all for someone making a buck or 5 or 10. But double the price?! At least. Sorry but thats just greed.
How is it greed?

Let me give an example:

I went shooting with a friend and a couple of acquaintances a couple of weeks ago. I took a nothing special home build DPMS with me.

Well one of the acquaintances like it and asked me if I wanted to sell it. He was moaning and groaning that he couldn't find one locally at any price. I said no as it was a good shooter. Through out the afternoon he kept bugging me and bugging me. I finally said that I'd sell it. I tossed out a price of $1800 hoping balk at the price and leave me alone. But, he agreed to it!!!

I had maybe $500 in it. I didn't really want to sell it but if he's willing to pay $1800, he can have it!

What would you have done?
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Old 02-06-2013, 02:39   #17
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How is it greed?

Let me give an example:

I went shooting with a friend and a couple of acquaintances a couple of weeks ago. I took a nothing special home build DPMS with me.

Well one of the acquaintances like it and asked me if I wanted to sell it. He was moaning and groaning that he couldn't find one locally at any price. I said no as it was a good shooter. Through out the afternoon he kept bugging me and bugging me. I finally said that I'd sell it. I tossed out a price of $1800 hoping balk at the price and leave me alone. But, he agreed to it!!!

I had maybe $500 in it. I didn't really want to sell it but if he's willing to pay $1800, he can have it!

What would you have done?
I too would have sold it.
I don't consider this example to be greed. You didn't intend/want to sell it. You threw a number(to leave you alone) and he agreed. There was no intent on your part.

Im talking about people going to Walmart, LGS or buying from MidwayUSA etc., buy as much as they can and then going on gunbroker etc. and selling it at double the price.

I understand about guns and mags though. It's the ammo im frustrated about.
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Old 02-06-2013, 03:13   #18
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Getting tired of the shortages and gouging too.
I refuse to pay the prices im seeing on the things I use.
(emphasis mine)


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Old 02-06-2013, 03:32   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by firemax View Post
I am a businessman. I know the difference between "making a buck" and gouging.
Apparently you don't.

I'm assuming you have an EBR or two. Some mags and ammo? Tell ya what: ill buy them for what you paid, plus a reasonable 5% profit. Deal?

Maybe you should take Big Bird up on his idea and open a gun store. Put your warped business principles to work and make a fortune.

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Old 02-06-2013, 04:29   #20
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It's an auction, so no you would not be gouging.


Current market value *to me* is the current prices advertised on the populer sites(excl. CTD), not Gunbroker or forum prices.
The best prices are from people who are out of stock and don't have anything to sell. Some (like Brownells) are in this for the long haul and are making a deliberate decision to keep pricing constant in order to win future loyalty. That is great, but how does that apply to someone who is not in the business of selling guns, but just wants to sell an item he no longer wants or needs? I am not interested in your future shopping loyalty because I am not in the business.

I am the guy who was selling the Sub2000 for $950. I ended up selling it for $800 in a FTF transaction. It had all the standard Keltec accessories (stock extension, rail, spare mag holder and sling) plus two 17 round mags (it only came with one 10 round mag). It had become a safe queen and with the current situation I decided to see how much I could get for it.

I found a local buyer (not through GT) and we arraigned to meet at a local gun show to complete the transaction. While I was waiting for the first buyer to show (he was over an hour late) a second buyer tried to get me to sell it to him. I told him I had already made a deal and to check back in an hour. The original buyer finally showed while I was talking to the second buyer and I sold him the gun for the agreed upon price ($800). I turned down an offer from the second buyer of $850 because I had given my word to the first buyer.

How is it gouging if I sell a good for what people are freely offering to pay? Nobody "needs" a Keltec Sub 2000. Buying one fills a want. I took that $800 and applied it to a Winchester trap shotgun I "wanted". Everybody went home happy (except the guy who sold me the Winchester, he was tying to talk the wife into letting him keep it).

By your logic, if the price of a good goes down then you are obligated to pay a higher than market price because somebody spent that much more on it when they bought it. That would be consistent with your position.

I'll bet when the shoe is on the other foot and prices are falling it is all "too bad for you, this is what the stuff is worth now." How is it any different when prices are rising?

Every person who buys a non-essential good, does so in the belief that the price is not about to go down.

Every person who sells a non-essential good, does so in the belief that the price is not about to go up.

Who is the gouger/horder/evil in that situation?

If I had held my first buyer up and made him match the second buyers offer I would have been acting as a gouger. I had made a commitment to sell him the gun at a certain price and I did so even though I could have made more by selling it to the second buyer. That is dealing with fairness and honor. How much I paid for the gun 10 years ago and how much profit I made is irrelevant and frankly none of your business.
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Old 02-06-2013, 04:33   #21
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Apparently you don't.

I'm assuming you have an EBR or two. Some mags and ammo? Tell ya what: ill buy them for what you paid, plus a reasonable 5% profit. Deal?

Maybe you should take Big Bird up on his idea and open a gun store. Put your warped business principles to work and make a fortune.
If you need to post my walmart and strawberry story, just say the word.








































































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Old 02-06-2013, 04:38   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by firemax View Post
I can't help but notice the amount of over priced items in the classified sections of all the 4m's I'm on. I can tell you this: I am compiling a list of all those who are trying to sell Glock mag's, ammo, loading supplies, and AR type rifles and mag's for twice what they are worth.
How is that even possible?

The definition of "what they're worth" is "whatever someone will pay for them" so they're selling for exactly what they're worth.

Shame you don't understand that.
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Old 02-06-2013, 05:05   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by firemax View Post
I can't help but notice the amount of over priced items in the classified sections of all the 4m's I'm on. I can tell you this: I am compiling a list of all those who are trying to sell Glock mag's, ammo, loading supplies, and AR type rifles and mag's for twice what they are worth. If the ***** ever does hit the fan, these people will not be able to be trusted.
Really? You join a forum and immediately start preaching to the established membership about this sort of thing? That's just strange.

Welcome to GT. I recommend a six month lurk...
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Old 02-06-2013, 05:23   #24
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Free markets set their own prices - as has been said, the "worth" or "value" of a good is determined by what the buyer is freely willing to pay and what the seller is freely willing to take. If you think something is priced too high, don't buy it. If everyone feels the same way the item won't sell and the seller will be forced to lower his asking price. That's how free markets work.

You gotta love "fair weather conservatives" who are all about the law of supply and demand... until demand outstrips supply and prices react accordingly.
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Old 02-06-2013, 05:27   #25
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The Hunt brothers didn't go to jail for gouging, it was for manipulating the silver market in the '70s. By '79 they owned about 100 million ounces of silver and made about 3 billion dollars. They were caught, but it wasn't gouging.

They came close to cornering the silver market, but didn't. Those were the days - $50/ounce for silver. A good state job requiring a couple of degrees only started out paying $9600/yr.

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