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Old 02-07-2013, 15:48   #21
G26S239
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I never had any real bad experiences with religion. When I was 7 I asked some question possibly related to the apparent absence of god, I can't recall for sure, and was first blown off with some platitude and then the Sunday school teacher got irritated. When I got home from church I told my mother I was not going to church anymore that I didn't believe in god. My grandmother was upset and wanted me to go anyway but my mother backed me up. Since then I have been to churches for weddings, christenings and travel as a tourist. Some of the old European churches are beautiful.
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Old 02-07-2013, 16:22   #22
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I guess I should add to this that my curent employer (a large school district) has actually had "calls to prayer" at the office during business hours at district endorsed functions. I've never objected. I just lower my head and let them finish, but I have to wonder how they have would react if I did? Would I be shunned? If I filed an EEOC complaint with HR would it be handled fairly? Also, how do they rationalize exposing the taxpayer to that kind of legal liability should someone else actually file suit over this (I have no such intentions)?
I think you would be given an opportunity to quit with the threat of firing you and making it difficult for you to get another job if you don't. Good luck suing a school district in Texas. Good luck getting an attorney that will file.
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Old 02-10-2013, 21:42   #23
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What was your worst experience with religion?
I found out that most, if not all important characters in the Bible were NOT perfect. People are all born sinners...except for Jesus.

I have a message for Gunhaver: If no one was perfect in the Bible (as Christians).....,may be you shouldn't going around expecting perfect "christians" in your own life and when they done you wrong.....you walk around with a chip on your shoulder.

You may not be a Christian....but you are still a sinner. So much for perfection. So, learn to forgive and get move on.
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Old 02-10-2013, 21:53   #24
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I donít reject religion because Iíve had bad experiences; I reject it because itís nonsense.

I actually read the first few books of the Bible when I was eight years old and could see even then what an inconsistent, absurd crock it was .
Wow, all the eight years of experience there right under your belt. Smart boy. Knows it all.

Now, let's get back to the real deal. Let me tell you a little secret: The Bible is written mostly for the Saved. This book is not written mostly for the Lost to understand.

There is a secret for you to unlock it. Then you will understand. But there is a choice you have to make.
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Old 02-10-2013, 21:59   #25
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No intelligent person could believe it and none do.
Really? Ever heard of Issac Newton?
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Old 02-10-2013, 22:04   #26
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You may not be a Christian....but you are still a sinner. So much for perfection. So, learn to forgive and get move on.
Considering that sin is a Christian/religious concept, how can someone who is not Christian/religious be a sinner?
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Old 02-10-2013, 22:15   #27
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Wow, all the eight years of experience there right under your belt. Smart boy. Knows it all.

Now, let's get back to the real deal. Let me tell you a little secret: The Bible is written mostly for the Saved. This book is not written mostly for the Lost to understand.

There is a secret for you to unlock it. Then you will understand. But there is a choice you have to make.
How old were you when you first believed in your god?
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Old 02-10-2013, 22:36   #28
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Originally Posted by SIGlock View Post
Wow, all the eight years of experience there right under your belt. Smart boy. Knows it all.

Now, let's get back to the real deal. Let me tell you a little secret: The Bible is written mostly for the Saved. This book is not written mostly for the Lost to understand.

There is a secret for you to unlock it. Then you will understand. But there is a choice you have to make.
I was in my 30s and already a believer when I chose to study the bible in an organized academic setting at a christian university. The experience dispelled the notion that the bible contained any sort of infallible truth and I came out the other side an atheist.

That secret you think you hold to unlocking its meaning is just a psychological defense mechanism that you've developed to avoid dealing with your own internal cognitive dissonance over the many contradictions contained in the bible.
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Old 02-11-2013, 00:08   #29
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This would be mine.

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Old 02-11-2013, 08:33   #30
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Wow, all the eight years of experience there right under your belt. Smart boy. Knows it all.
You obviously have insecurity issues about your intellect.

Quote:
Now, let's get back to the real deal. Let me tell you a little secret: The Bible is written mostly for the Saved. This book is not written mostly for the Lost to understand.
You are going to find that the non-believers in this forum understand the bible better than most believers you'll ever meet.

Quote:
There is a secret for you to unlock it. Then you will understand. But there is a choice you have to make.
By unlock it... I'm gonna assume you mean forcing yourself to believe in nonsense even though your brain tells you it's nonsense.
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Old 02-11-2013, 09:18   #31
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Old 02-11-2013, 13:13   #32
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Originally Posted by Geko45 View Post
I was in my 30s and already a believer when I chose to study the bible in an organized academic setting at a christian university. The experience dispelled the notion that the bible contained any sort of infallible truth and I came out the other side an atheist.

That secret you think you hold to unlocking its meaning is just a psychological defense mechanism that you've developed to avoid dealing with your own internal cognitive dissonance over the many contradictions contained in the bible.
An interesting book I recently read was, "Proof of Heaven" by Eben Alexander, M.D. In chapter 33, "The Enigma of Consciousness", he wrote, "When I fell into my coma, I was a secular doctor who had spent his entire career in some of the most prestigious research institutions in the world, trying to understand the connections between the human brain and consciousness. It wasn't that I didn't believe in consciousness. I was simply more aware than most people of the staggering mechanical unlikelihood that it existed - at all!"..."On the subatomic level...(the) universe of separate objects turns out to be a complete illusion...no objects...only vibrations of energy, and relationships...it is impossible to pursue the core reality of the universe without using consciousness. Far from being an unimportant by-product of physical processes (as I had thought before my experience), consciousness is not only very real - it's actually more real than the rest of physical existence, and most likely the basis of it all...as of yet there is no unified 'theory of everything' that can combine the laws of quantum mechanics with those of relativity in a way that begins to incorporate consciousness.

"The ascendance of the scientific method based solely on the physical realm over the past 400 years presents a major problem: we have lost touch with the deep mystery at the center of our existence - our consciousness. It was (under different names and expressed through different world-views) something known well and held close by pre-modern religions...our focus on exponential progress in science and technology has left many of us... bereft in the realm of meaning and joy, and of knowing how our lives fit into the grand scheme of existence for all eternity."

"We have been seduced into thinking that the scientific world-view...(leaves not much) room for our soul, or spirit, or for Heaven, and God. My journey deep into coma, outside of this lowly physical realm and into the loftiest dwelling place of the almighty Creator, revealed the indescribably immense chasm between human knowledge and the awe-inspiring realm of God."

Later in the book, he says, "I'm still a scientist, I'm still a doctor, and as such I have 2 essential duties: to honor truth and to help heal..." He believes, and I suspect he's correct, that his experience broke the back "of the last efforts of reductive science to tell the world that the material realm is all that exists, and that consciousness, or spirit - yours and mine - is not the great and central mystery of the universe".

His was not the only NDE (Near Death Experience), there have been countless others well-documented. I believe he is correct in saying that God and the soul are real and that death is not the end of personal existence but only a transition.
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Old 02-11-2013, 13:28   #33
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I do not know where my soul came from before I was concieved.

I do not know where it will go, or even if it will continue at all, after I die.

Further, I do not believe that anyone else truly knows where the soul comes from/goes to either!

And that includes a literate sheepherder named Abraham, a failed Egyptian Prince named Moses who hijacked an entire nation, a pedophile/carvan raider named Mohammed, nor anyone else, now living or now dead, who says that "God talked to them directly" and who purports, or purported, "to know what God wants from each and all of us".

Religious leaders are politicians and con men.

Religion at it's worst is Theocratic Dictatorial Government, and at it's best a con game.

What did religion do to me?

It was more a matter of what religion did to my father, and as a result, what happened to our family.

Dad took the "turn the other cheek" BS to the point where he would not stand up for himself at all.

He let just about everyone manipulate him and then use religion as the excuse for having no spine.

I learned more about how to be a man from my mother.

He dutifully tithed the 10% family income to the scam, ...er, "church", when our family really, really, needed the money more than the con man....er, "Preacher" did.
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Old 02-11-2013, 13:57   #34
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Religious leaders are politicians and con men.
The truly sad part is that politicians are frequently more honest than religious leaders.
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Old 02-11-2013, 14:05   #35
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"We have been seduced into thinking that the scientific world-view...(leaves not much) room for our soul, or spirit, or for Heaven, and God. My journey deep into coma, outside of this lowly physical realm and into the loftiest dwelling place of the almighty Creator, revealed the indescribably immense chasm between human knowledge and the awe-inspiring realm of God."
There are plenty of people that have taken LSD and had similar experiences. If the consciousness (or "soul" if you prefer) is a tangible thing that lies beyond our "physical realm" then why can it so easily be manipulated by psychoactive drugs, neural electrical implants and other sources of stimuli? I would submit that this doctor is simply no longer objective on the topic having experienced powerful hallucinations during a deep coma.
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Old 02-11-2013, 15:06   #36
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Originally Posted by FriarTuck View Post
An interesting book I recently read was, "Proof of Heaven" by Eben Alexander, M.D. In chapter 33, "The Enigma of Consciousness", he wrote, "When I fell into my coma, I was a secular doctor who had spent his entire career in some of the most prestigious research institutions in the world, trying to understand the connections between the human brain and consciousness. It wasn't that I didn't believe in consciousness. I was simply more aware than most people of the staggering mechanical unlikelihood that it existed - at all!"..."On the subatomic level...(the) universe of separate objects turns out to be a complete illusion...no objects...only vibrations of energy, and relationships...it is impossible to pursue the core reality of the universe without using consciousness. Far from being an unimportant by-product of physical processes (as I had thought before my experience), consciousness is not only very real - it's actually more real than the rest of physical existence, and most likely the basis of it all...as of yet there is no unified 'theory of everything' that can combine the laws of quantum mechanics with those of relativity in a way that begins to incorporate consciousness.

"The ascendance of the scientific method based solely on the physical realm over the past 400 years presents a major problem: we have lost touch with the deep mystery at the center of our existence - our consciousness. It was (under different names and expressed through different world-views) something known well and held close by pre-modern religions...our focus on exponential progress in science and technology has left many of us... bereft in the realm of meaning and joy, and of knowing how our lives fit into the grand scheme of existence for all eternity."

"We have been seduced into thinking that the scientific world-view...(leaves not much) room for our soul, or spirit, or for Heaven, and God. My journey deep into coma, outside of this lowly physical realm and into the loftiest dwelling place of the almighty Creator, revealed the indescribably immense chasm between human knowledge and the awe-inspiring realm of God."

Later in the book, he says, "I'm still a scientist, I'm still a doctor, and as such I have 2 essential duties: to honor truth and to help heal..." He believes, and I suspect he's correct, that his experience broke the back "of the last efforts of reductive science to tell the world that the material realm is all that exists, and that consciousness, or spirit - yours and mine - is not the great and central mystery of the universe".

His was not the only NDE (Near Death Experience), there have been countless others well-documented. I believe he is correct in saying that God and the soul are real and that death is not the end of personal existence but only a transition.
So, long story short, doctor is an atheist, suffers some brain damage and comes out of it a theist. Not very compelling evidence. There are very experienced pilots that have seen UFOs. I don't find that to be very compelling evidence of aliens. After watching Cav Doc fail to grasp the simplest of concepts across numerous threads I'm convinced that being able to pass yourself off as a medical professional is definitely no indicator that one is more qualified to say anything about natural vs. supernatural world.

Also, "the last efforts of reductive science to tell the world that the material realm is all that exists, and that consciousness, or spirit - yours and mine - is not the great and central mystery of the universe".

Really? What scientific doctrine or theory or anything you can site says that the material realm is all that exists? Where does science say anything about god or Santa or bigfoot or any of that nonsense? This is always a very amusing process that you fellas have.

1. Perpetuate a myth with claims carefully imagined to be undetectable by science, (a la Russel's Teapot)

2. Complain when scientists don't take you seriously even though you nor they could come up with any ways to test your imagined scenario... given that it was designed to be untestable.

3. Bring legitimate science into question as if you had given it every chance to test your non-existent claims by means that even you can't describe (because they don't exist).

4. Seek people who want to agree with you badly enough that they'll join you in criticizing science for not being able to do what you have no clue that it can't do.


Show me a scientist that has ever said, "The material realm is all that exists and I'll show you somebody that doesn't understand the scope of science.
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Old 02-11-2013, 15:16   #37
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1. Perpetuate a myth with claims carefully imagined to be undetectable by science, (a la Russel's Teapot)
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Old 02-12-2013, 00:50   #38
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Originally Posted by SIGlock View Post
I found out that most, if not all important characters in the Bible were NOT perfect. People are all born sinners...except for Jesus.

I have a message for Gunhaver: If no one was perfect in the Bible (as Christians).....,may be you shouldn't going around expecting perfect "christians" in your own life and when they done you wrong.....you walk around with a chip on your shoulder.

You may not be a Christian....but you are still a sinner. So much for perfection. So, learn to forgive and get move on.
I was not born a sinner and I have never sinned.
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Old 02-12-2013, 01:09   #39
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Originally Posted by SIGlock View Post
I found out that most, if not all important characters in the Bible were NOT perfect. People are all born sinners...except for Jesus.

I have a message for Gunhaver: If no one was perfect in the Bible (as Christians).....,may be you shouldn't going around expecting perfect "christians" in your own life and when they done you wrong.....you walk around with a chip on your shoulder.

You may not be a Christian....but you are still a sinner. So much for perfection. So, learn to forgive and get move on.
What a lame ass response.
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Old 02-12-2013, 01:15   #40
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Wow, all the eight years of experience there right under your belt. Smart boy. Knows it all.

Now, let's get back to the real deal. Let me tell you a little secret: The Bible is written mostly for the Saved. This book is not written mostly for the Lost to understand.

There is a secret for you to unlock it. Then you will understand. But there is a choice you have to make.
What's the choice I have to make? To believe it before I even read it? How convenient.
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