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Old 02-09-2013, 20:38   #121
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Originally Posted by Stevekozak View Post
I also do not think he is going to kill anyone's kids.
He already did kill someones kid and her fiance.

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504083_1...-coach-fiance/
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Old 02-09-2013, 21:00   #122
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I worked with a guy who was harbor security in the Navy and his training was nothing special main job and equipment was communications not weapons. He got deployed to some nasty places and they issued them 12ga pumps with three rounds of ammo when on guard duty, this was after 9-11. He would sneak his Glock to the deployment in high security communication containers. In Africa the Navy even put them up in a hotel terrorist were planing to attack, they found out from a guy in the State Department who happened to spot them at the hotel.
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Old 02-09-2013, 21:14   #123
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I hear it is about over now! The drug addict C. Sheen has asked the murderer Dorner to call him. Unreal!

LAPD is reopening his case? Unreal ^2
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Old 02-09-2013, 21:21   #124
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I hear it is about over now! The drug addict C. Sheen has asked the murderer Dorner to call him. Unreal!

LAPD is reopening his case? Unreal ^2
Charlie Manson lost his phone privileges?
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Old 02-09-2013, 21:33   #125
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LAPD to reopen investigation into fugitive ex-cop's firing
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Old 02-09-2013, 22:14   #126
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He already did kill someones kid and her fiance.

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504083_1...-coach-fiance/
I am sorry, I meant that I don't think he is going to kill anyone's under-aged children. I could be wrong. I hope I am not. Can't reliably predict crazy.
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Old 02-09-2013, 22:14   #127
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I read that there were weapons found abandoned in the burned out vehicle along with cold weather camping gear. He was obviously going to go up there in the mountains and lay low for a while but it all went south for him when the axle broke. A broken axle in rough terrain is a plan spoiler big time. He must have continued on foot as he took only what he could carry, leaving the rest. I'm sure they have searched all possible shelters that are known in the area. No further actions/murders have been associated with him since. That leaves about three possibilities.

He got out of the mountains and is recouping in a safe place.

He is still up in the mountains and has found a way to survive.

He is still up in the mountains and is dead, by suicide or the elements.

They are continuing to search up there. That tells a lot, and also means that they have no definitive leads causing them to shift their focus elsewhere.

If he is dead, finding the body may be very difficult. Wilderness areas conceal bodies extremely well. Usually the deceased hunkers down low or under something before expiring. Leaves, etc., blow over the body. The animals come. And then of course with the snow covering everything you may walk right by and never know.

I also read that the tracks or footprints they had been following were discovered to have probably been made by someone else. Don't know if this is true, but it means nothing anyway. A human walking lightly in most terrain does not necessarily leave "tracks". Dogs could pick up the scent but frequently lose it at some point.
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Old 02-09-2013, 22:20   #128
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I think he is in the wind and they won't find him for awhile. It won't end well for someone. Here is hoping he meets a terrible fate.

Sidenote: Has anyone from LAPD met with the FBI about checking GNG? If we can check user names, maybe he registered under his real name and they can trace the IP back to him. Duh!
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Old 02-09-2013, 22:23   #129
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I'm not a cop ....but all you LEO, please be careful !!

Don't let this nutter hurt you....... mike
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Old 02-09-2013, 23:48   #130
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LAPD to reopen probe into fugitive ex-cop's firing

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Originally Posted by LAPD Police Chief Charlie Beck
"I'm not doing this to appease him. I'm doing this so the community has faith in what the police department does." "This investigation has already been reviewed at multiple levels. If I have to redo something or deal with an issue I will deal with it publicly."
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-201_162-...x-cops-firing/

If he has successfully managed to hide himself, then maybe this will get him to settle down while the probe takes place.
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Old 02-10-2013, 00:29   #131
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Originally Posted by MinervaDoe View Post
LAPD to reopen probe into fugitive ex-cop's firing



http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-201_162-...x-cops-firing/

If he has successfully managed to hide himself, then maybe this will get him to settle down while the probe takes place.
Doubtfull he broke, no fixing him now.


He'll either die in the mountains or surface again when spotted or he chooses to engage.
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Old 02-10-2013, 01:22   #132
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Ok. Let's review...

He murders two people in an ambush attack as they sat in their car on Sunday.

Yes, that was planned.

He's publicly identified as a suspect on Wednesday evening. A few hours later, he's trying to steal a boat. He tells the victim he's fleeing to Mexico. So much for his asymmetrical warfare campaign...his instinct is to run.

Not much coolheaded planning there...he can't get the boat free. He may have been in the Navy, but he doesn't sound like he's much of a sailor, does he?

So, he abandons that idea and drives north east. Maybe he was going to attack one of his targets, maybe not. Anyway, he is spotted an LAPD officers follow him. He attacks them...but this is in reaction to them following him, as opposed to a pre-planned attack.

Fleeing the scene of that shooting (note that he didn't stand his ground to shoot it out), he comes across unsuspecting Riverside PD officers and ambushes them, killing one. Again, not a pre-planned act like the murder on Sunday, but a target of opportunity.

Let me pause to offer my thoughts and prayers to Dorner's victims, and their families...

Back to my recap:

Now, on the run, he apparently drives to Big Bear. He abandons the car, which, according to news reports, has a broken axle. He burns the car, leaving behind weapons, according to news accounts. Why leave behind guns if you have a car stashed? Why try to steal a boat in San Diego if you have a car stashed in Big Bear?

Remember, this guy lived with his mom, apparently.

So, unless he has an accomplice, he winds up in Big Bear afoot...not because of a carefully constructed battle plan, but because of a series of impulsive acts.

He burns the car. Why? A diversion? To destroy evidence? Who knows? Remember that both oars aren't in the water here. We try to look for logic in the behavior of some one who is behaving in an irrational (and homicidal) fashion. My guess...another impulsive choice, that made sense to him at the time, but a bad choice, as it drew LE up there in force.

What now? Well, unless he's prepared to go camping, he's in real trouble, due to the weather. He needs food, water and shelter. This isn't a guy who went through SERE school. If his first plan was to hop a stolen boat to Mexico, he probably didn't pack his North Face gear. So, did he have time, after the failed boat theft attempt, to prepare to hole up in Big Bear? Did he run home to his mama's house and pack for a week in the mountains in February? Did he have the time to think about the weather? Or did he flee up there on impulse (like the boat theft attempt) and discover that he really wasn't up to the task.

Bottom line, he managed to plan and carry out the first attack. There was no external pressure on him at that point. However, the recent events do not seemed to be part of a plan but and improvised escape attempt carried out under real pressure and fear of capture.

So much for his asymmetrical warfare campaign. Unless he can find shelter or transportation, he is in real trouble out there. If he is still alive, that is. After all this excitement, he's likely to crash, emotionally. Maybe depression and hopelessness set in. That could lead to suicide. A lot of cop killers commit suicide within days of their offense. Even if not suicidal, unless he has shelter, the weather conditions are life threatening.

Last thought: the allegations in the "manifesto" should be take with a huge grain of salt...it's all grandiose, self serving and it would be a mistake to assume his allegations are true.

He is (or was) driven by inner demons and serious mental illness. The "Cause" is NOT the cause, it's an excuse.
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Old 02-10-2013, 01:40   #133
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I believe he was telling the truth about his FTO kicking the suspect.

He was not entirely stable to begin with so when he felt he lost everything, then he felt he had nothing else to lose so he choose to make a statement by killing folks.

That's one reason that having a strong family and good friends can help prevent this sort of thing. Apparently, he has neither.
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Old 02-10-2013, 02:21   #134
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Keep in mind his allegation against the FTO was at least two weeks after the alleged incident, and, significantly, after the FTO gave him an unsatisfactory rating.

Also keep in mind that he was in the field for just four months after completing the Academy when he was called up on Active Duty with the Navy...and was deployed for twelve months. So, he did not complete his probationary period in the usual time frame.

When he returned from the deployment, he wanted to go BACK to the Academy because he didn't feel up to going back into patrol.

That request was denied, so he goes back into patrol. That is why he had an FTO at the time he made his allegation, because he was still completing his field training.

Note also that in the manifesto he claims one of the officers who beat Rodney King is still in LAPD in a position of rank. Not true. All four officers involved in that incident (who struck King) were fired and prosecuted twice.

Finally, regarding his allegations against the FTO, independent witnesses contradicted his testimony.

Remember, all this was during the Federal Consent degree period. The Department was under the DOJ microscope and would take such an allegation seriously. For the Department to send Dorner to a Board of Rights for making a false allegation means it was sure the allegation was not only unfounded but fabricated.

He had an attorney provided by the Police Protective League (a retired LAPD captain). I can tell you, from personal observation, that LA Police Protective League attorneys zealously represent their client.

Let's not forget that he did not murder the daughter of the Internal Affairs Advocate who prosecuted the Board of Rights, nor the people who comprised the trial Board: two captains and the civilian Board member (a city employee, not an LAPD employee, who is there to provide civilian oversight of the process). Nor did he go after Chief Beck or former Chief Bratton. No, he murders the daughter of the man that DEFENDED him, and her fiancé.

He has zero credibility.

Another thought: when fired, an officer turns in his badge. Yet a badge, supposedly his, was recovered in San Diego recently. If it's his LAPD badge, he would have had to steal it. If it's a fake badge, that's also interesting. This guy is, or was, the inadequate wannabe type who happened to get hired by LAPD, but was clearly ill suited to the job.

Finally, consider the timing of all this.

Why now? He was fired years ago.

I speculate that there have been other recent stressors which caused him to turn his revenge fantasy into a reality.

The "Cause" is not the cause. The same was true of lone wolf offenders like the Unabomber (he had a manifesto, too), McVeigh and Buford Furrow. All were fundamentally homicidal mentally ill people who drummed up a political justification for their murderous acts. Dormer is simply cut from that dysfunctional cloth, with huge mental health problems and a homicidal tendency. Due to his narcissism, he needs to call attention to his imagined righteousness.

Sadly, many are taken in...
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Last edited by Marlowe; 02-10-2013 at 02:41..
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Old 02-10-2013, 02:39   #135
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Originally Posted by Marlowe View Post
Keep in mind his allegation against the FTO was at least two weeks after the alleged incident, and, significantly, after the FTO gave him an unsatisfactory rating.

Also keep in mind that he was in the field for just four months after completing the Academy when he was called up on Active Duty with the Navy...and was deployed for twelve months. So, he did not complete his probationary period in the usual time frame.

When he returned from the deployment, he wanted to go BACK to the Academy because he didn't feel up to going back into patrol.

That request was denied, so he goes back into patrol. That is why he had an FTO at the time he made his allegation, because he was still completing his field training.

Note also that in the manifesto he claims one of the officers who beat Rodney King is still in LAPD in a position of rank. Not true. All four officers involved in that incident (who struck King) were fired and prosecuted twice.

Finally, regarding his allegations against the FTO, independent witnesses contradicted his testimony.

Remember, all this was during the Federal Consent degree period. The Department was under the DOJ microscope and would take such an allegation seriously. For them to send Dorner to a Board of Rights for making a false allegation, it means they were sure the allegation was not only unfounded but fabricated.

He had an attorney provided by the Police Protective League (a retired LAPD captain). I can tell you, from personal observation, that LA Police Protective League attorneys zealously represent their client.

Lets not forget that he did not murder the daughter of the Internal Affairs Advocate who would prosecuted the Board of Rights, nor the two captains and civilian who comprised the trial Board. Nor did he go after Chief Beck or former Chief Bratton. No, he murders the daughter of the man that DEFENDED him, and her fiancé.

He has zero credibility.

Another thought: when fired, an officer turns in his badge. Yet a badge, supposedly his, was recovered in San Diego recently. If it's his LAPD badge, he would have had to steal it. If it's a fake badge, that's also interesting. This guy is, or was, the inadequate wannabe type who happened to get hired by LAPD, but was clearly ill suited to the job.

Finally, consider the timing of all this.

Why now? He was fired years ago.

I speculate that there have been other recent stressors which caused him to turn his revenge fantasy into a reality.

The "Cause" is not the cause. The same was true of lone wolf offenders like the Unabomber (he had a manifesto, too), McVeigh and Buford Furrow. All were fundamentally homicidal mentally ill people who drummed up a political justification for their murderous acts. Dormer is simply cut from that dysfunctional cloth, with huge mental health problems and a homicidal tendency. Due to his narcissism, he needs to call attention to his imagined righteousness.

Sadly, many are taken in...
Good post. Interesting information.
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Old 02-10-2013, 03:29   #136
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Thanks, Vettely...and thanks for reading it. It was long!
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Old 02-10-2013, 03:31   #137
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Hell, he even has a Facebook page created by folks that support him......

https://www.facebook.com/ChrisDorner187
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Old 02-10-2013, 03:48   #138
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Hell, he even has a Facebook page created by folks that support him......

https://www.facebook.com/ChrisDorner187
And in further news (as if any of us are surprised)
http://pjmedia.com/tatler/2013/02/09...-spree-killer/
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Old 02-10-2013, 05:04   #139
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Keep in mind his allegation against the FTO was at least two weeks after the alleged incident, and, significantly, after the FTO gave him an unsatisfactory rating.

Also keep in mind that he was in the field for just four months after completing the Academy when he was called up on Active Duty with the Navy...and was deployed for twelve months. So, he did not complete his probationary period in the usual time frame.

When he returned from the deployment, he wanted to go BACK to the Academy because he didn't feel up to going back into patrol.

That request was denied, so he goes back into patrol. That is why he had an FTO at the time he made his allegation, because he was still completing his field training.

Note also that in the manifesto he claims one of the officers who beat Rodney King is still in LAPD in a position of rank. Not true. All four officers involved in that incident (who struck King) were fired and prosecuted twice.

Finally, regarding his allegations against the FTO, independent witnesses contradicted his testimony.

Remember, all this was during the Federal Consent degree period. The Department was under the DOJ microscope and would take such an allegation seriously. For the Department to send Dorner to a Board of Rights for making a false allegation means it was sure the allegation was not only unfounded but fabricated.

He had an attorney provided by the Police Protective League (a retired LAPD captain). I can tell you, from personal observation, that LA Police Protective League attorneys zealously represent their client.

Let's not forget that he did not murder the daughter of the Internal Affairs Advocate who prosecuted the Board of Rights, nor the people who comprised the trial Board: two captains and the civilian Board member (a city employee, not an LAPD employee, who is there to provide civilian oversight of the process). Nor did he go after Chief Beck or former Chief Bratton. No, he murders the daughter of the man that DEFENDED him, and her fiancé.

He has zero credibility.

Another thought: when fired, an officer turns in his badge. Yet a badge, supposedly his, was recovered in San Diego recently. If it's his LAPD badge, he would have had to steal it. If it's a fake badge, that's also interesting. This guy is, or was, the inadequate wannabe type who happened to get hired by LAPD, but was clearly ill suited to the job.

Finally, consider the timing of all this.

Why now? He was fired years ago.

I speculate that there have been other recent stressors which caused him to turn his revenge fantasy into a reality.

The "Cause" is not the cause. The same was true of lone wolf offenders like the Unabomber (he had a manifesto, too), McVeigh and Buford Furrow. All were fundamentally homicidal mentally ill people who drummed up a political justification for their murderous acts. Dormer is simply cut from that dysfunctional cloth, with huge mental health problems and a homicidal tendency. Due to his narcissism, he needs to call attention to his imagined righteousness.

Sadly, many are taken in...
The more I hear, the less it seems like revenge killings. It's more like domestic terrorism. The manifesto is all over the place, like the democratic/ alqeda platform. I'm surprised he didn't touch on global warming. Some of us at work were wondering if he built up a war chest by commiting robberies prior to his cracking? He will need lots of money to keep going. This guy is no Rambo.
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Old 02-10-2013, 05:57   #140
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Longhammer,

I agree...his actions meet the legal definition of domestic terrorism...use of force and violence to further a political objective. He's achieving it, too..LAPD will now re-examine his allegations. How about that?

Another domestic terrorist, Tim McVeigh, was successful, too, in the use of mass murder to advance a political objective...let's remember that it was after Oklahoma City that congress held hearings on Waco and Ruby Ridge, the incidents that supposedly motivated McVeigh to bomb the Federal building.

Sadly, violence can be a very effective way to stimulate government action.

In his manifesto, Dorner says he will "make policy" for LAPD...and will only stop killing when his demands are met.

So we can call them domestic terrorists. But, in my opinion, dig into their psyche deep enough and you will find the driving force behind the violence is not the stated "Cause" but a desire to kill due to serious and longstanding mental health issues. Offenders like McVeigh and Dorner wrap their real need---to kill people--in a package they can explain and justify...hence, the political rationalization...and it also helps them pick their targets.

Don't get me wrong...they are legally sane...meaning, they know right from wrong, they know the nature of what they're doing, but they are deeply disturbed, violent and therefore dangerous.

So, if he's caught, by all means, prosecute him under the terrorism statutes as well as for murder...but we would do well to understand that the true motivation is deeper and darker than the stated motivation.

Our problem is that we need to understand, to have it all makes sense, when it's not understandable and it is senseless. So, simple, clear explanations like revenge and terrorism allow us to explain away the inexplicable...to answer the question, "Why would someone do THAT?"

It's like explaining a kleptomaniac's stealing by saying he wanted something and just didn't want to pay for it. Or to explain rape by saying the perpetrator wanted sex. Or to explain a peeping tom by saying he wanted to see a naked woman. In each case, there is an element of truth to those explanations, but those explanations do not fully explain the behavior.

Dorner kills to satisfy a peculiar need that only he, or someone like him, can fathom.

Anyway, that's the best I can figure it.
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