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Old 02-08-2013, 13:03   #26
countrygun
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It really reminds me of a loss of perspective and the "tunnel vision" coming on a bit quick and in a larger context than in a gunfight.

The officers lost perspective when it comes to the sheer number of pickups out there, much less the ones that actually match the actual description of the suspect's. They got lost in the tunnel vision convincing themselves that they had the suspect despite all of the peripheral evidence that indicated other wise.

Indeed it was small version of "mob psychology" playing out. Their individual fears fed off each other and therefore fed their mechanism for quelling their fear. That mechanism was gunfire.

Just a hunch.
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Old 02-08-2013, 13:06   #27
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I have to admit, that doesn't look very good

People make mistakes, and some people's mistakes are whoppers.
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Old 02-08-2013, 13:29   #28
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They've lawyered up... Attorney Glen Jonas said...
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Old 02-08-2013, 14:14   #29
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Originally Posted by countrygun View Post
It really reminds me of a loss of perspective and the "tunnel vision" coming on a bit quick and in a larger context than in a gunfight.

The officers lost perspective when it comes to the sheer number of pickups out there, much less the ones that actually match the actual description of the suspect's. They got lost in the tunnel vision convincing themselves that they had the suspect despite all of the peripheral evidence that indicated other wise.

Indeed it was small version of "mob psychology" playing out. Their individual fears fed off each other and therefore fed their mechanism for quelling their fear. That mechanism was gunfire.

Just a hunch.
Cops in Redondo beach also fired on a Honda Ridgeline.

As a guy who has 135K on his Nissan Titan (which I sure as HECK would not be driving around LA these days) I'm a bit insulted anyone could mistake a Ridgeline for my actual pickup.


In the link Russ put up, lawyer says the Taco was fire on without any command to stop. Who knows?

Thing is, this is not roadblock duty in the sandbox -- fail to stop or slow at the checkpoint and get lit up. You just cannot apply those ROE in Los Angeles, even outside the home of an HVT LEO brass you are guarding.
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Old 02-08-2013, 16:02   #30
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Good eye on the shotgun shells. I was wondering about the larger holes, like the top right (passenger side) of that back windshield. Either a good group, or a strange break, or maybe caused by the shotgun?
To Mrs Vr's point, I'm not bashing LEO's; California has a serious predator/assassin on the loose. This is a guy has at least some knowledge of police tactics, was fired 5 years ago so could have a prepared strategy - he could have been planning this for years. My concern is these particular officers.

I've shot the Federal Flight Control; that stuff holds a pretty tight group even out to 20 or more yards. Considering the tire shot has only one hole in the mud flap you have at least one shotgun and one pistol.

These guys must have thought it was the wild west.
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Old 02-08-2013, 16:43   #31
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"Again, I wasn't there. The entire situation is FUBAR. But there is a lot more going on then what the Media is saying and I am witholding judgement on anyone (both sides, Officers and the women) till all the evidence comes out. "- Glocker Rob

True, we ought to exercise caution in making WA statements about something of which we have scant details... but there were unarmed women shot by uniformed police-- that seems like a given at this point.

Oh, and all the evidence will come out --- in the trials.. as it should.
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Old 02-08-2013, 16:57   #32
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I usually side with the police, but it's mainly because the people who post about them here know so little about law/police/crime/etc. that their comments and conclusions are silly.

In this case, what the police did was stupid. I can't see any excuse for it and it smells like panic.

The two women in the blue truck were illegal aliens (hard to believe in Los Angeles right). Driving very slow, no lights, and dark tinted windows. I'm sure some command (in english) was given with no response.

Over reaction by the LAPD? Yeah, ok.

I'm sure if they were after a suspect that didn't kill ove of thier own, things would have been different.

Last edited by MotoGlock; 02-08-2013 at 16:59..
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Old 02-08-2013, 17:19   #33
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The two women in the blue truck were illegal aliens (hard to believe in Los Angeles right). Driving very slow, no lights, and dark tinted windows. I'm sure some command (in english) was given with no response.

Over reaction by the LAPD? Yeah, ok.

I'm sure if they were after a suspect that didn't kill ove of thier own, things would have been different.
It doesn't matter if the cops were right or wrong in their read of things. It matters if they were reasonable.

I can't find any reasonableness here. The use of deadly force is generally in immediate defense of life. The shooter has to be able to articulate that the shootee had the means, opportunity and intent to cause death or serious injury to an innocent. I can't see where any of those factors can be articulated here.
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Old 02-08-2013, 17:32   #34
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Originally Posted by MotoGlock View Post
The two women in the blue truck were illegal aliens (hard to believe in Los Angeles right). Driving very slow, no lights, and dark tinted windows. I'm sure some command (in english) was given with no response.

Over reaction by the LAPD? Yeah, ok.

I'm sure if they were after a suspect that didn't kill ove of thier own, things would have been different.
Can't find where they were illegal aliens (respectfully) can you give us a link??
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Old 02-08-2013, 18:25   #35
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Yes I think we can all understand that, but you also took one very important step. You identified your target! The officers involved in this shooting did not identify their target, that is what is scariest to me. I can not think of any situation, even full battlefield combat, where it is appropriate to not identify your target. No one is "safe" from these officers.



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you are totally right, and I am going out on a limb and say well these two ladies will be wealthy after their attorney gets done with the city and police dept.
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Old 02-08-2013, 18:34   #36
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Hmmm...I thought id your target was one of the first rules of gun safety...Ooops...
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Old 02-08-2013, 19:24   #37
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I've defended LE in more than one thread about controversial incidents; but, this has tunnel vision written all over it. It really looks like they either panicked or were too eager to bring down the guy who had gunned down fellow officers.

I have no idea how I would react to a situation where someone was actively hunting me down, I can imagine the stress of something like that would make me a little fast on the trigger, but I do know where I'd end up if it was a bad shoot.
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Old 02-08-2013, 19:30   #38
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It's only gonna get worse!

LAPD had a restless night..............

hiding under their beds!

I wonder if Chris still has a LAPD uniform, that would make things interesting for the police. He could walk up to any of their protection details and open a big can of trouble on those officers!
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Old 02-09-2013, 06:34   #39
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It doesn't matter if the cops were right or wrong in their read of things. It matters if they were reasonable.
. . . . .
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Old 02-09-2013, 09:46   #40
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I'm not either defending or blaming the cops on this one (at least until more facts come out). But the Rule of Law should be applied equally to everyone.

If the cops screwed up, they should face the exact same criminal charges that a private citizen would. Maybe even a bit harsher, as they are supposed to have had more training to prevent this kind of thing from happening.

If there were extenuating circumstances, then the same benefit of the doubt needs to be applied to all civilian self-defense shootings as well.

Last edited by glock39; 02-09-2013 at 10:21..
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Old 02-09-2013, 10:07   #41
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Sure they are 'on edge, who can blame them, but shooting newspaper delivery women?

Just to be clear: two petite HISPANIC delivery women. The murderer is a 270 lb, 6'5" African American man. They shot the HISPANIC women driving a blue Toyota Tacoma and the African American murderer is driving a grey Nissan Titan.
Looks like the LAPD cops are not only color blind but also equal opportunity shooters.

Last edited by Zombie Surgeon; 02-09-2013 at 10:21..
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Old 02-09-2013, 10:09   #42
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I hope they sue the living crap out of the LAPD.
They lawyer-ed up since yesterday.
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Old 02-09-2013, 10:11   #43
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CHA-Ching!

Somebody is about to come in to some new found wealth.

Paid in part by my tax dollars, since I am a resident of Los Angeles.
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Old 02-09-2013, 10:22   #44
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I'm not either defending or blaming the cops on this one (at least until more facts come out). But the Rule of Law should equally to everyone.

If the cops screwed up, they should face the exact same criminal charges that a private citizen would. Maybe even a bit harsher, as they are supposed to have had more training to prevent this kind of thing from happening.

If there were extenuating circumstances, then the same benefit of the doubt needs to be applied to all civilian self-defense shootings as well.
I agree that the police when involved in a shooting like this should face the same process as a non-police in a shooting, sadly we all know that they will not. All you need to do is read any cop form and there is a very well defined line for us versus them. I have for years worked with police trainers from several countries and most of them are friends and I respect them but they belong to an exclusive club for police only.
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Old 02-09-2013, 10:41   #45
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Just to be clear: two petite HISPANIC delivery women. The murderer is a 270 lb, 6'5" African American man. They shot the HISPANIC women driving a blue Toyota Tacoma and the African American murderer is driving a grey Nissan Titan.
Looks like the LAPD cops are not only color blind but also equal opportunity shooters.
The initial reports were of a blue truck.
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Old 02-09-2013, 10:56   #46
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It doesn't matter if the cops were right or wrong in their read of things. It matters if they were reasonable.

I can't find any reasonableness here. The use of deadly force is generally in immediate defense of life. The shooter has to be able to articulate that the shootee had the means, opportunity and intent to cause death or serious injury to an innocent. I can't see where any of those factors can be articulated here.
In would agree.

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Can't find where they were illegal aliens (respectfully) can you give us a link??
Honestly Bear , I heard it from one of the horses mouth. I do not have a link to it but its very probable, especially in this city.
I'm sure those officers were giving multiple commands for that blue truck to stop which led to this event. I personally think it was excessive because you known if they were after a normal suspect of even a serial killer of some sort this would less likely to have happened. Replace a regular suspect with one that killed several police officers, then low and behold emotions run high. Apparently to most police, the lives of their "own" is far mor important.
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Old 02-09-2013, 11:15   #47
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http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la...,4414028.story

Interesting picture here ........ The truck is definitely blue (not grey) and LOTS of bullet holes in the rear of the truck...... Don't know if they were shooting at the truck as it approached them or not... Would be interesting to see the front of the pickup.
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Old 02-09-2013, 11:50   #48
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http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la...,4414028.story

Interesting picture here ........ The truck is definitely blue (not grey) and LOTS of bullet holes in the rear of the truck...... Don't know if they were shooting at the truck as it approached them or not... Would be interesting to see the front of the pickup.
Here...
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Old 02-09-2013, 11:52   #49
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Maybe officers thought he was in the extended cab part of the truck...
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Old 02-09-2013, 12:07   #50
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Make sure you have ALL the facts before making ANY statement about guilt.

You weren't there. You have no idea about what REALLY happened.

The officers might be wrong but let the investigation bring that out.
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