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Old 02-09-2013, 13:46   #51
ithaca_deerslayer
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Originally Posted by marchboom View Post
Make sure you have ALL the facts before making ANY statement about guilt.

You weren't there. You have no idea about what REALLY happened.

The officers might be wrong but let the investigation bring that out.
We don't need ALL the facts. We aren't on a jury. We are just judging the story as it is presented to us.

That's what we do on the internet, or at the water cooler at work, or at the local gas station, and there is nothing wrong with it. If we waited for all the facts, we'd have nothing to talk about

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Old 02-09-2013, 13:51   #52
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I'm not either defending or blaming the cops on this one (at least until more facts come out). But the Rule of Law should be applied equally to everyone.

If the cops screwed up, they should face the exact same criminal charges that a private citizen would. Maybe even a bit harsher, as they are supposed to have had more training to prevent this kind of thing from happening.

If there were extenuating circumstances, then the same benefit of the doubt needs to be applied to all civilian self-defense shootings as well.
Disagree. The rule of law should be applied to the individual circumstances and the specific situation. One-size-fits-all justice is not just.
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Old 02-09-2013, 14:33   #53
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Disagree. The rule of law should be applied to the individual circumstances and the specific situation. One-size-fits-all justice is not just.
OK, you lost me. How is it one-size-fits-all if the cops are judged by the exact same standards that a private citizen would be under the exact same circumstances?

If a private citizen, under those circumstances, would not have been justified in firing a weapon, then why were the cops justified in firing?

If the officers believed that it was necessary to fire in order to protect innocent life (and preventing what they thought was a mass murderer from escaping might arguably fall under that category), then why should a private citizen be prosecuted for making the exact same decision under those circumstances?

I thought Rule of Law meant everybody lives under the same laws. Not one set of rules if you're employed by the government and a different set of rules for everyone else. If, hypothetically, a CHL holder was standing next to the cops and also fired at the vehicle, should the private citizen go to jail, while the officers walk away with no consequences?
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Old 02-09-2013, 15:40   #54
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Originally Posted by glock39 View Post

I thought Rule of Law meant everybody lives under the same laws. Not one set of rules if you're employed by the government and a different set of rules for everyone else. If, hypothetically, a CHL holder was standing next to the cops and also fired at the vehicle, should the private citizen go to jail, while the officers walk away with no consequences?
Ever hear of David Gregory?

Guess we live not under the rule of law, but instead under the rule of selective enforcement.

As long as we generally agree with the selection choices, no problem


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Old 02-10-2013, 08:48   #55
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Originally Posted by Sam Spade View Post
Disagree. The rule of law should be applied to the individual circumstances and the specific situation. One-size-fits-all justice is not just.
So are the police exempt from the laws we the surfs must adhere to? This would explain why it seems like the general public need to be cautious around the LEO types now.
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Old 02-10-2013, 09:13   #56
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OK, you lost me. How is it one-size-fits-all if the cops are judged by the exact same standards that a private citizen would be under the exact same circumstances?

If a private citizen, under those circumstances, would not have been justified in firing a weapon, then why were the cops justified in firing?

If the officers believed that it was necessary to fire in order to protect innocent life (and preventing what they thought was a mass murderer from escaping might arguably fall under that category), then why should a private citizen be prosecuted for making the exact same decision under those circumstances?

I thought Rule of Law meant everybody lives under the same laws. Not one set of rules if you're employed by the government and a different set of rules for everyone else. If, hypothetically, a CHL holder was standing next to the cops and also fired at the vehicle, should the private citizen go to jail, while the officers walk away with no consequences?
And yet your previous post also calls for harsher penalties for cops, which is the very definition of a double standard. I think you need to come to terms with your own thoughts on this before you engage in debate.

Then, find me Joe Citizen with the exact same situation, and we'll be able to discuss.
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Old 02-10-2013, 09:18   #57
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So are the police exempt from the laws we the surfs must adhere to? This would explain why it seems like the general public need to be cautious around the LEO types now.
I'm exempt from a number of laws that are applicable to you. I'm also subject to laws that you aren't. Go figure.
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Old 02-10-2013, 09:33   #58
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Old 02-10-2013, 10:01   #59
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I'm exempt from a number of laws that are applicable to you. I'm also subject to laws that you aren't. Go figure.
Like LEO get a freebie if you make a mistake or two? Kick in the wrong door no big deal, shoot up the wrong car not a problem just another day at the office. I know you get protection from your actions you shouldn’t but you do.
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Old 02-10-2013, 10:23   #60
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Like LEO get a freebie if you make a mistake or two? Kick in the wrong door no big deal, shoot up the wrong car not a problem just another day at the office. I know you get protection from your actions you shouldn’t but you do.
You don't know what you're talking about. You don't even know what you don't know.

Meanwhile, back on topic...
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Old 02-10-2013, 11:13   #61
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Just a reminder...
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Ok, I'm allowing this for the moment, because this is a huge story and people are (rightfully) concerned and have questions and want to discuss. *however* the moment any of these threads turn into a " let's bash cops"-fest,I'm going to shut it down. That's not, and never has been, acceptable here. Again, I'll ask you to check yourselves.
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Old 02-10-2013, 11:20   #62
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I hope they sue the living crap out of the LAPD.
They will be lucky to get their hospital bills paid by LA county ... their broke.
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Old 02-10-2013, 11:50   #63
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As bad as these incidents are there may be some GREAT good that may possibly come out of it.

To quote Thomas Sowell:

Quote:
“It is hard to imagine a more stupid or more dangerous way of making decisions than by putting those decisions in the hands of people who pay no price for being wrong.”
Actions such as those we are witnessing now on the part of poorly trained and panicing public servants my very likely bring up the thorny issue of Sovereign or Limited Immunity. This could greatly loosen the interpretation of Respondeat superior sometimes referred to as the "Striping Doctrine".

This would be a tremendously good thing with respect to holding those accountable for their actions. The big problem is that due the precipitous Moral Decay in our society, this doctrine in order to work successfully would require that ALL (read private citizens included) be held accountable for their actions and actually apply equal protection under law. It pains me to advise NOT holding ones breath waiting for this to happen any time soon or ever. At least not under our current "system" of "government".
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Old 02-10-2013, 13:36   #64
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It doesn't matter if the cops were right or wrong in their read of things. It matters if they were reasonable.

I can't find any reasonableness here. The use of deadly force is generally in immediate defense of life. The shooter has to be able to articulate that the shootee had the means, opportunity and intent to cause death or serious injury to an innocent. I can't see where any of those factors can be articulated here.
Concur. Under the circumstances described ( low visibility, lights off, slow moving past the protectees location), my pucker factor would be way elevated, but absent a visible weapon or incoming rounds, I can't see the justification to fire.
Get cover, get light on the vehicle, and go from there.

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Old 02-10-2013, 13:48   #65
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Is anyone surprised. The LAPD are government thugs with badges who abuse and violate rights when they are in force.

But when they are needed the most like in the 92 riots, they retreat in fear like the cowards that they are.

Corrupt from top to bottom. I'm glad I don't live in Hell-A..


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