[FriarTuck]

I just read that a suicide bomber hit the US Embassy in Ankara, the capital of Turkey.

But isn't Islam a religion of peace? That's what Obama and our MSM keep saying...

[JBnTX]

Obviously this was not a terrorist attack, but a peaceful protest of some anti-Islam video or film.

You know how sensitive those people are.

[SPIN2010]

They are just making good on the kenyan's invitation to destroy Americans anywhere in the world.

[Geko45]

Another example of radical theism. Notice you never hear of athiest suicide bombers? It's harder to convince someone a cause is worth dying for if you haven't already convinced them that they will be rewarded in the afterlife for their actions.

[muscogee]

I hate religious wars.

[Cavalry Doc]

Originally Posted by Geko45

Another example of radical theism. Notice you never hear of athiest suicide bombers? It's harder to convince someone a cause is worth dying for if you haven't already convinced them that they will be rewarded in the afterlife for their actions.

Heroes and zeros in every group, you just have to look for them.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/mobile...n_2259237.html

[Cavalry Doc]

Originally Posted by muscogee

I hate religious wars.

Any of you guys spend any time on Muslim websites talking them out of this sort of nonsense?

[Geko45]

Originally Posted by Cavalry Doc

Heroes and zeros in every group, you just have to look for them.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/mobile...n_2259237.html

He was just a common criminal who murdered for rape and profit, not to advance the cause of atheism. Motive matters when trying to find a counter analogy doc.

[Geko45]

.....

[hogfish]

Originally Posted by Geko45

Another example of radical theism. Notice you never hear of athiest suicide bombers? It's harder to convince someone a cause is worth dying for if you haven't already convinced them that they will be rewarded in the afterlife for their actions.

'Atheist Suicide Bombers'. It never occured to me. That's really funny!

[Cavalry Doc]

Originally Posted by Geko45

He was just a common criminal who murdered for rape and profit, not to advance the cause of atheism. Motive matters when trying to find a counter analogy doc.

Want. It's the biggest motivation.

Atheist governments have killed scores of millions. Family feuds and tribal conflicts plenty too. Competing gangs, ethnic groups, races, etc etc etc.

Humans fight. Humans in groups fight more effectively.

[Geko45]

Originally Posted by Cavalry Doc

Want. It's the biggest motivation.

Atheist governments have killed scores of millions. Family feuds and tribal conflicts plenty too. Competing gangs, ethnic groups, races, etc etc etc.

Humans fight. Humans in groups fight more effectively.

So, you agree. No atheist suicide bombers.

[Blast]

Originally Posted by Cavalry Doc

Want. It's the biggest motivation.

Atheist governments have killed scores of millions. Family feuds and tribal conflicts plenty too. Competing gangs, ethnic groups, races, etc etc etc.

Humans fight. Humans in groups fight more effectively.

Don't confuse the simple minded with facts. It upsets their agenda. And makes them whine.

[kirgi08]

[Slackinoff]

delete

[Cavalry Doc]

Originally Posted by Geko45

So, you agree. No atheist suicide bombers.

Not really. If you look around long enough, you'll find that it takes all kinds.....

How many suicide bombers have you met? Would you think that a severely cognitively impaired down syndrome teenager was a devout theist? Ever hear of people being pressured to carry out such attacks due to threats to their families? How about some that did it out of family loyalty for the monetary payoff for completing the attack? Kids in Muslim countries get depressed too, some seek acceptance in some really stupid ways. Was every Kamikaze a theist, or was family honor the real driving force. Not every suicide bomber in Iraq really believed he was going to get 72 virgins. I suspect the down syndrome kid didn't even know what a virgin was, but I wasn't in on his interrogation, just his health care. Another was about 26, and had a severe cardiomyopathy. He could only walk about 20 feet before having to rest. In that environment, he probably had a year or two left at best. I did talk to him a bit, and he basically just wanted to be respected by his family, he was pretty secular, and I got the feeling he was a little mad at the world and allah for his bad luck. Most of the guys that we had that were set up to carry out suicide bombings struck me as useful idiots, social misfits, not wild eyed soldiers for allah. I will tell you that we did track down quite a few of the handlers. Those guys were really evil. I still smile when I think of what we did to them.

Warning: Salty Language

Car bomb factory- go boom! - YouTube

Car bomb factory- go boom! - YouTube

Suicide bombing is a tactic only. It's a way to get around technological inadequacy. Those that have the ability to deliver a destructive payload to a target in other ways usually choose to do it that way.

[FriarTuck]

Originally Posted by Cavalry Doc

Ever hear of people being pressured to carry out such (suicide) attacks?... I will tell you that we did track down quite a few of the handlers. Those guys were really evil...

Good point.

Hitler, pretty much an atheist, pressured millions to carry out his bombing attacks, and then committed suicide.

The Muslim Prime Minister of Turkey says this current suicide bombing was done by a Marxist (Atheist). He may be right -in Turkey they have a Revolutionary People's Liberation Party with a history of suicide bombings. Maybe these Atheist materialists, although disbelieving in any afterlife, love nothingness more than a world dominated by Capitalism. Other Marxist Atheists, such as in China's civil wars, Korea, and Indochina, have used suicide attacks.

But Muslims have carried out more than 20,000 terror attacks in the last decade, many by suicide, so this current bombing may turn out to have been done by another Muslim. Not all Muslims are suicide bombers, of course.

Atheist Richard Dawkins correctly denounced "Islamic barbarism" for destroying a Timbuktu library, and was accused of criticizing ALL Muslims. So he countered, "Xtian (Christian) barbarians murder abortion doctors. Most Xtians are not barbarians. Most atheists are not barbarians".

Leaving aside the argument that murderous 'Xtians' aren't really Christians, how many abortion doctors have been murdered by "Xtians"? 9?

Atheist barbarian Stalin murdered how many innocent people? 60,000,000?

Christ allowed Christians self-defense (Luke 22:36), but emphatically did NOT order violence on anybody not accepting the Gospel, in very marked contrast to what Mohammed and Marx ordered their followers.

[juggy4711]

Originally Posted by Cavalry Doc

Want. It's the biggest motivation. Atheist governments have killed scores of millions. Family feuds and tribal conflicts plenty too. Competing gangs, ethnic groups, races, etc etc etc. Humans fight. Humans in groups fight more effectively.

Religion in these instances are often scapegoats and control mechanisms. Those that believe every imam, ayatollah or Muslim in Islamic nations really believe what they preach likely also think that all of our politicians really believe in Christianity. Not all do rather, it is simply politically expedient.

That said there has never been an atheist government in they way you mean. So called atheist governments were in competition/at odds with religion. Whether socialist, communist or whatever they just didn't want the competition. Such governments never took or encouraged actions in the name of atheism.

While I agree that actions can be due to the things you reference rather than religion, religion can be a positive or negative motivator. Atheism on the other hand isn't a motivator at all. It doesn't have any dogma or required behaviors attached.

Originally Posted by FriarTuck

...Most Xtians are not barbarians. Most atheists are not barbarians". Atheist barbarian Stalin murdered how many innocent people? 60,000,000?

Christ allowed Christians self-defense (Luke 22:36), but emphatically did NOT order violence on anybody not accepting the Gospel, in very marked contrast to what Mohammed and Marx ordered their followers.

Marx wasn't even a Marxist, much less did he order followers in the way you are referencing Mohammed, so that's just plain stupid.

Hitler and Stalin may have been atheists but the tens of millions of deaths they were responsible for had nothing to do with their atheism and every thing to do with their political ideologies.

Now you do raise a good point stating that most atheists and Christians are not barbarians. While I would not go so far as to say most Muslims are barbarians, there is no current equivalency between Islam and other religions or atheism. For a myriad of reasons the Islamic world is jacked the f up, the number one reason being Islam.

[FriarTuck]

Originally Posted by juggy4711

Marx wasn't even a Marxist, much less did he order followers in the way you are referencing Mohammed, so that's just plain stupid.

You're right, he wasn't a Marxist, in the sense of 'looking out for working people'. The only working-class person he knew was his servant, Helen Demuth, whom he never paid any wages, and whom he adulterously used as his mistress. How convenient that he loathed Judeo-Christian religion and its morality. Their illegitimate son, Freddy, was only allowed in the back door. When his wife found out, she was devastated. Marx was a bum too: he never seriously tried to get a job, but lived off loans which were never repaid. His sugar-daddy, Engels, covered for him. His family lived in squalid conditions, which caused a legitimate son to die young of gastroenteritis. One daughter died of opium overdose and another committed suicide. Marx smoked and drank heavily, and stunk because he seldom bathed.

But selfish Marx didn't let any of this worry him: he envisioned massive destruction, the end of history, when his proletariat would rise up in class warfare and destroy the capitalist world. He was a hypocrite, immensely selfish and bloody-minded, like Mohammed. He preached envy of "the rich", theft of their property, and murder described as 'class warfare' and 'revolution'. His communism, one of the greatest failures in human history, murdered 100 million innocents in the 20th century.

[void *]

Originally Posted by Cavalry Doc

Heroes and zeros in every group, you just have to look for them.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/mobile...n_2259237.html

Sure.


Fanatical islamic suicide bombers are killing for a religious cause.

The guy you link to appears to be a sociopathic serial killer - which has no link to religion or lack thereof (Ted Bundy identified as a Methodist, for instance).

Also, it makes zero sense to me that an atheist would be 'raging against god'. It would be like raging against Santa Claus - if you do not believe, you do not believe, nothing to rage against. So I think either the guy actually believed but (inaccurately) called himself an atheist, or the source stating he was 'raging against god' is not accurate.

[Sharkey]

Originally Posted by Geko45

Another example of radical theism. Notice you never hear of athiest suicide bombers? It's harder to convince someone a cause is worth dying for if you haven't already convinced them that they will be rewarded in the afterlife for their actions.

I am gonna guess a lot of non religious bombers are atheist bombers? I've never known the atheists to be more moral than others. I think the idea here is Islam is a violent religion but nice plug for the non religious following of atheism

[Cavalry Doc]

Originally Posted by void *

Sure.


Fanatical islamic suicide bombers are killing for a religious cause.

The guy you link to appears to be a sociopathic serial killer - which has no link to religion or lack thereof (Ted Bundy identified as a Methodist, for instance).

Also, it makes zero sense to me that an atheist would be 'raging against god'. It would be like raging against Santa Claus - if you do not believe, you do not believe, nothing to rage against. So I think either the guy actually believed but (inaccurately) called himself an atheist, or the source stating he was 'raging against god' is not accurate.

How about these guys and their followers?




How many did they kill in the name of a god? They did it with the absence of a god as a motivator.


If you are going to look for the real common denominator, it's human nature. Humans work better when they cooperate, whether that work is good work, or bad work.

[Geko45]

So, I'm still not seeing any instances of atheist suicide bombers. We have established that atheists are willing to kill for money and power (as are theists), but not for some absurd religious ideal (that will take their life too). My point being, atheists have one less reason to kill than do theists. Does that make us morally superior? No, of course not, but maybe we are a little less gullible.

And... Kamikazes, really? The name itself means divine wind.

[Geko45]

Originally Posted by Sharkey

I've never known the atheists to be more moral than others.

Are you sure that your own worldview isn't biasing your opinion here? You can't fairly judge someone else's morality by your own belief system when they don't share it. For instance, someone might believe homosexuality is immoral using the christian worldview, but for a buddhist it wouldn't be immoral at all.

[void *]

Originally Posted by Cavalry Doc

How many did they kill in the name of a god? They did it with the absence of a god as a motivator.

Actually, they did it with power as a motivator. Which is also something that does not isolate itself to either the religious, or the nonreligious.

Is the guy blowing himself up because he believes that somehow, killing innocent people will be judged as holy and good in the eyes of his deity doing it with power as a motivator?