Home Forums Classifieds Blogs Today's Posts Search Social Groups



  
SIGN-UP
Notices

Glock Talk
Welcome To The Glock Talk Forums.

 
  
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 02-20-2013, 07:33   #1
OrangeJoe
Machetes & Guns
 
OrangeJoe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: MoCo
Posts: 1,993
"Start ALL AR Builds as Pistol!" Why not?

Start ALL Builds as Pistol! Why not?


If I start my AR build as a pistol, I can then use the same lower for Pistol AND Rifle uppers. I can switch back and forth without any legal issue as long as I take off the stock.


Does everyone do this to preclude any issues when switching uppers, if not why?


What are the downsides to this?

I just put my lower together, but have not attached a butt stock or barrel (don't barrel yet) and this question keeps popping up in my mind. Should I just snap a pistol upper on first?
__________________
He has all of the virtues I dislike and none of the vices I admire. Winston Churchill.
The Rimfire Club/Tactical Shotgun Club #5150
OrangeJoe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-20-2013, 07:49   #2
railfancwb
Senior Member
 
railfancwb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Shelbyville, Tennessee TN
Posts: 4,563
When I was in my LGS a few weeks ago, this question came up from another customer. The dealer said the lower came into the shop undesignated, but when she enters it in the bound book and on a 4473, she has to say what it is and what initial caliber. So if your lower was at any prior point classified as a rifle that is what it is to BATFE. Since you are finishing a build, this is a question of fact which can be answered by the FFL from whom it was acquired. If you bought it FtoF from an individual, the FFL who first processed it into a 4473 would be the place to check.


Posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire
__________________
"Never give to your friend any power that your enemy may some day inherit." -- Paul Weyrich
railfancwb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-20-2013, 08:35   #3
OrangeJoe
Machetes & Guns
 
OrangeJoe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: MoCo
Posts: 1,993
railfancwb,

We seem to be discussing two different subjects, my question is regarding a new build. The paperwork on the receiver is marked "rcvr" as it should. It becomes a pistol with all the aforementioned benefits once I build it into one; hence my question on any downsides to that.

I guess if you are buying a used or mislabeled (on paperwork) receiver your warnings would apply.

thanks for the reply.
__________________
He has all of the virtues I dislike and none of the vices I admire. Winston Churchill.
The Rimfire Club/Tactical Shotgun Club #5150
OrangeJoe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-20-2013, 08:35   #4
mvician
Lifetime Membership
Senior Member
 
mvician's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: NW Indiana
Posts: 3,379
Blog Entries: 1
Stripped lowers are "other". If they are logging them in as anything else they are doing it wrong.
mvician is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-20-2013, 08:51   #5
Gunnut 45/454
Senior Member
 
Gunnut 45/454's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 14,050
mvician
Yep thats the way my last lower was logged- other!
__________________
Gunnut45/454-One shot one kill!
Gunnut 45/454 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-20-2013, 11:32   #6
bigmoney890
Senior Member
 
bigmoney890's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Boone, NC
Posts: 1,454
I see no downfall to doing this. In fact, i'm doing the same thing until I get my paperwork back for my SBR. Seems Like a reasonable Idea, but it's probably more practical to have a designated Pistol lower so you don't have to keep switching the stocks on/off, it's not a huge deal, but i'd rather not have to do it multiple times if I could help it.
__________________
"you cannot invade the mainland United States, there would be a rifle behind every blade of grass..."


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 signatures.
bigmoney890 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-20-2013, 12:09   #7
OrangeJoe
Machetes & Guns
 
OrangeJoe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: MoCo
Posts: 1,993
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigmoney890 View Post
I see no downfall to doing this. In fact, i'm doing the same thing until I get my paperwork back for my SBR. Seems Like a reasonable Idea, but it's probably more practical to have a designated Pistol lower so you don't have to keep switching the stocks on/off, it's not a huge deal, but i'd rather not have to do it multiple times if I could help it.
I guess it is common practice then, I'm just late to the party :-)

Since I don't see this mentioned in the build threads as a standard step I thought it was not that well known .
__________________
He has all of the virtues I dislike and none of the vices I admire. Winston Churchill.
The Rimfire Club/Tactical Shotgun Club #5150
OrangeJoe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-20-2013, 12:26   #8
bigmoney890
Senior Member
 
bigmoney890's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Boone, NC
Posts: 1,454
Quote:
Originally Posted by OrangeJoe View Post
I guess it is common practice then, I'm just late to the party :-)

Since I don't see this mentioned in the build threads as a standard step I thought it was not that well known .
Actually, I'm not sure if it's common or not. I heard my local gunstore guy talking about pistols and a few weeks later I saw a few on here, asked around, and came to the conclusion that since i'm so impatient, that I better build a pistol so I wouldn't be tempted to make an illegal SBR while my paperwork was with the ATF.
__________________
"you cannot invade the mainland United States, there would be a rifle behind every blade of grass..."


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 signatures.
bigmoney890 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-20-2013, 17:38   #9
michael_b
BRC #1492
 
michael_b's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Kansas
Posts: 836
My next build is proceeding as a pistol so I can convert to an SBR later with just changing out the buffer tube.

Just need to get my trust set up.

I'm of the feeling that you should just have a dedicated pistol lower if you really want an AR pistol and don't plan on converting it.






Posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire
__________________
"The thing about quotes on the Internet is you cannot confirm their validity"- Abraham Lincoln

"Compromise on gun-rights? Did Rosa Parks settle for the middle of the bus?"-Mushinto
michael_b is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-20-2013, 21:42   #10
DAIadvisor
Senior Member
 
DAIadvisor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Kettering, OH
Posts: 2,447
No one knows what you started your rifle build as. And no one will ever check, so technically any stripped lower can be started as anything and turned into anything later.
DAIadvisor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-20-2013, 21:48   #11
mrvtwin80
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 36
Quote:
Originally Posted by mvician View Post
Stripped lowers are "other". If they are logging them in as anything else they are doing it wrong.
That is correct.
mrvtwin80 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-20-2013, 21:54   #12
bug
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 2,009
Quote:
Originally Posted by mvician View Post
Stripped lowers are "other". If they are logging them in as anything else they are doing it wrong.
This....
bug is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-21-2013, 00:37   #13
lawman800
Juris Glocktor
 
lawman800's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Out the frying pan & into the fire!
Posts: 37,723
Blog Entries: 1
Not in CA. AR's cannot be made into pistols if the lower is not registered as such from initial purchase since CA requires registration of all handgun purchases and there is a central state registry of handguns and who owns them.

Then you have the problem of non-LEO's not being able to buy a new pistol from a dealer that is not on an approved list from the DOJ. They test handguns in various "safety" tests and since a stripped lower cannot be tested, it will never be a safe gun for DOJ, therefore, a non-LEO will never be able to buy a new stripped AR lower and register it as a pistol.

LEO's are exempt from the list, so they can DROS an AR lower as a pistol from the dealer. My friends and I have done that. A non-LEO can buy a handgun registered stripped lower from a LEO and build his own at that point. However, once you make a pistol lower into a rifle, you cannot turn it back into a pistol without running afoul of other laws.

Calguns has a few threads which discuss this same issue and they are very informative. I didn't read nor retain too much from those threads since I will never build a pistol or rifle on the same lower, I keep mine separated. Pistol is a pistol, rifle is a rifle.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by blueiron:
I've said it before and I'll say it here: they'd look better with lividity.
lawman800 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-21-2013, 00:48   #14
bigmoney890
Senior Member
 
bigmoney890's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Boone, NC
Posts: 1,454
Quote:
Originally Posted by lawman800 View Post
Not in CA. AR's cannot be made into pistols if the lower is not registered as such from initial purchase since CA requires registration of all handgun purchases and there is a central state registry of handguns and who owns them.

Then you have the problem of non-LEO's not being able to buy a new pistol from a dealer that is not on an approved list from the DOJ. They test handguns in various "safety" tests and since a stripped lower cannot be tested, it will never be a safe gun for DOJ, therefore, a non-LEO will never be able to buy a new stripped AR lower and register it as a pistol.

LEO's are exempt from the list, so they can DROS an AR lower as a pistol from the dealer. My friends and I have done that. A non-LEO can buy a handgun registered stripped lower from a LEO and build his own at that point. However, once you make a pistol lower into a rifle, you cannot turn it back into a pistol without running afoul of other laws.

Calguns has a few threads which discuss this same issue and they are very informative. I didn't read nor retain too much from those threads since I will never build a pistol or rifle on the same lower, I keep mine separated. Pistol is a pistol, rifle is a rifle.
California has the most nonsensical gun laws ever. A "rifle" AR is no more or less deadly or unsafe than a"pistol" AR.
__________________
"you cannot invade the mainland United States, there would be a rifle behind every blade of grass..."


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 signatures.
bigmoney890 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-21-2013, 01:20   #15
lawman800
Juris Glocktor
 
lawman800's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Out the frying pan & into the fire!
Posts: 37,723
Blog Entries: 1
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigmoney890 View Post
California has the most nonsensical gun laws ever. A "rifle" AR is no more or less deadly or unsafe than a"pistol" AR.
Of course it is.

A rifle is more dangerous if it's under 30" overall length. That's why we don't have folding stock AK's. Our FN PS90, even when outfitted with a federally legal 16" barrel, still has to have an extra buttpad extension welded on to make it long enough for CA. Some have just taken to putting on an extra long flash hider so it's not as ridiculously ugly.

Rifles are also very dangerous if the magazines actually fall free with a push of a button, so ours have a bullet button that locks the mag and can't release without using a tool like the tip of a bullet inserted into a small hold to activate the release.

But nothing is complete without a magazine capacity limit of 10 rounds because we know we have to spare the 11th shooting victim. Killing 10 is enough for any mass murderer. He doesn't need to kill that 11th guy... unless he topped off at home after loading 1 in the chamber, in which case it's the 12th victim that will be spared.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by blueiron:
I've said it before and I'll say it here: they'd look better with lividity.
lawman800 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-21-2013, 10:43   #16
Matthew Courtney
CLM Number 285
Instructor #298
 
Matthew Courtney's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Lake Charles
Posts: 5,986
Quote:
Originally Posted by lawman800 View Post
Not in CA. AR's cannot be made into pistols if the lower is not registered as such from initial purchase since CA requires registration of all handgun purchases and there is a central state registry of handguns and who owns them.

Then you have the problem of non-LEO's not being able to buy a new pistol from a dealer that is not on an approved list from the DOJ. They test handguns in various "safety" tests and since a stripped lower cannot be tested, it will never be a safe gun for DOJ, therefore, a non-LEO will never be able to buy a new stripped AR lower and register it as a pistol.

LEO's are exempt from the list, so they can DROS an AR lower as a pistol from the dealer. My friends and I have done that. A non-LEO can buy a handgun registered stripped lower from a LEO and build his own at that point. However, once you make a pistol lower into a rifle, you cannot turn it back into a pistol without running afoul of other laws.

Calguns has a few threads which discuss this same issue and they are very informative. I didn't read nor retain too much from those threads since I will never build a pistol or rifle on the same lower, I keep mine separated. Pistol is a pistol, rifle is a rifle.
Go away. Can you not see that people from free states are talking?
__________________
You will never begin in the fight you have planned for. You will begin in the fight the other guy has planned for. Retreat in a manner that leads him into your fight should he press his attack.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 signatures.
Matthew Courtney is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-21-2013, 12:39   #17
bigmoney890
Senior Member
 
bigmoney890's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Boone, NC
Posts: 1,454
Quote:
Originally Posted by Matthew Courtney View Post
Go away. Can you not see that people from free states are talking?


I shouldn't be laughing this hard
__________________
"you cannot invade the mainland United States, there would be a rifle behind every blade of grass..."


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 signatures.
bigmoney890 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-21-2013, 21:41   #18
lawman800
Juris Glocktor
 
lawman800's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Out the frying pan & into the fire!
Posts: 37,723
Blog Entries: 1
I know... I'm sorry, just didn't want you free people to forget those of us behind enemy lines in the occupied territories.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by blueiron:
I've said it before and I'll say it here: they'd look better with lividity.
lawman800 is offline   Reply With Quote

 
  
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump




All times are GMT -6. The time now is 03:28.




Homepage
FAQ
Forums
Calendar
Advertise
Gallery
GT Wiki
GT Blogs
Social Groups
Classifieds


Users Currently Online: 524
120 Members
404 Guests

Most users ever online: 2,672
Aug 11, 2014 at 2:31