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02-18-2013, 12:36
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#26
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: NM
Posts: 1,243
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I didn't misunderstand anything. It's not complicated. As our society has moved in a more secular progressive direction, there seems to be an acceptance, or even glorification, of moral decline. I don't think that you have to look very hard to see that truism. Don't misundertand my position, I'm not advocating religiosity in government. I'm just commenting on what I see. Seems that the forced removal of religion from our society has proven Adams to have been very astute.
Last edited by Kablam; 02-18-2013 at 12:37..
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02-18-2013, 15:03
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#27
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Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Shelbyville, Tennessee TN
Posts: 2,751
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Quote:
Originally Posted by czsmithGT
He was born in Canada. His father Cuban, his mother American, so he is a natural born US citizen.
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Must be based on the Kenyan precedent.
Posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire
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02-18-2013, 15:46
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#28
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 6,942
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Quote:
Originally Posted by railfancwb
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No it's based on US law.
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02-18-2013, 19:01
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#29
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Senior Member
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Kentucky
Posts: 579
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kablam
Are you sure about that? John Adams was a founder, and I suspect he knew exactly what he and the others had in mind when they wrote the Constitution. “Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other.”
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I think what he meant is that liberty and freedom is reserved for responsible and ethical people as the absence of government in certain areas requires a moral and ethical populace. With liberty comes responsibility, there is no incentive to live or act ethically when the government tells you what your morals and values are before you have a chance to see for yourself, just as there is no incentive to earn money through labor when the government provides it for you. If the State gives you something, it deincentivizes you from obtaining or realising it yourself.
We know the founders advocated a government with no religous interference hence the seperation of church and state, but when you understand why they did it all makes sense.
Our founders observed history and saw what happened when the
church controlled the state, look at the Middle Ages, anyone who was not a believer in Christianity or Islam was persecuted. Some had to worship in complete secrecy to avoid death. They also knew why their ancestors came to North America, it was to persue religous freedom. They tried to make sure history wasn't repeated.
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Last edited by EnemyOfTheState; 02-18-2013 at 21:24..
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02-18-2013, 19:30
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#30
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Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Arizona
Posts: 1,085
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Slug71
Either way, religion control is bad. Especially when you are going for votes. You can't shove christianity down people's throats. The politicians need to keep religion out of politics.
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I think Regan did it well. He professed beliefs, but did not pontificate them. Limited government is what the founders wanted, all free to believe as they wish. The opposite of the church of England. So yes, religion at a personal level, now a campaign issue.
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02-18-2013, 20:47
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#31
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Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Oregon - U.S.A
Posts: 3,194
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dawolf
I think Regan did it well. He professed beliefs, but did not pontificate them. Limited government is what the founders wanted, all free to believe as they wish. The opposite of the church of England. So yes, religion at a personal level, now a campaign issue.
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Agreed.
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02-19-2013, 14:42
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#32
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: NM
Posts: 1,243
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EnemyOfTheState
I think what he meant is that liberty and freedom is reserved for responsible and ethical people as the absence of government in certain areas requires a moral and ethical populace. With liberty comes responsibility, there is no incentive to live or act ethically when the government tells you what your morals and values are before you have a chance to see for yourself, just as there is no incentive to earn money through labor when the government provides it for you. If the State gives you something, it deincentivizes you from obtaining or realising it yourself.
We know the founders advocated a government with no religous interference hence the seperation of church and state, but when you understand why they did it all makes sense.
Our founders observed history and saw what happened when the
church controlled the state, look at the Middle Ages, anyone who was not a believer in Christianity or Islam was persecuted. Some had to worship in complete secrecy to avoid death. They also knew why their ancestors came to North America, it was to persue religous freedom. They tried to make sure history wasn't repeated.
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We KNOW what he meant. Read these words and others from him. Kind of like the 2nd ammendment. Read the words...no interpretation necessary. Not complicated at all. Our form of government was intended by the founders to be for a moral and RELIGIOUS people. He, and others, said that it would not work otherwise. A secular society was not intended for this form of government. That's different than the government prescribing a particular faith, and it is also different from a government and society removed from all religious ideals. Methinks they were right.
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02-20-2013, 12:05
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#33
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Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Oregon - U.S.A
Posts: 3,194
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02-22-2013, 12:59
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#34
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Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Oregon - U.S.A
Posts: 3,194
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Rand Paul on Fox last night.
$5 million on freakin gold fish democracy!? And jerky! 
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Last edited by Slug71; 02-22-2013 at 13:35..
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02-22-2013, 17:55
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#35
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Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Oregon - U.S.A
Posts: 3,194
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Slug71
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Introduced a bill with his recommendations.
http://paul.senate.gov/?p=press_release&id=716
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Last edited by Slug71; 02-22-2013 at 18:11..
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02-26-2013, 11:28
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#36
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Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Oregon - U.S.A
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02-26-2013, 13:56
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#37
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Señor Member
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: fl
Posts: 3,142
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Slug71
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Oh, boy. He admitted to not thinking we need to be involved in every war around the world. I don't see how he has a chance. 
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"Almost no matter the question, capitalism and freedom are the answers, while government and religion are not." Syclone538
Last edited by hogfish; 02-26-2013 at 13:56..
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02-26-2013, 14:24
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#38
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Recalcitrant
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Chunkarock, Texas
Posts: 142
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02-26-2013, 14:47
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#39
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: NM
Posts: 1,243
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Slug71
Either way, religion control is bad. Especially when you are going for votes. You can't shove christianity down people's throats. The politicians need to keep religion out of politics.
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I can agree to keep religion out of politics. One problem I have though is that the secular crowd has used politics to force religion out of society instead of politics hence not heeding Adams' warning. And I now think we're seeing the results.
Last edited by Kablam; 02-26-2013 at 14:49..
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02-26-2013, 18:45
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#40
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Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Sandstone, MN 55072
Posts: 5,393
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kablam
One problem I have though is that the secular crowd has used politics to force religion out of society instead of politics
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Where have the secular folks forced religion out of society? Out of the public (government) square yes, but private society? No!
ARS
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02-26-2013, 19:42
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#41
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Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Oregon - U.S.A
Posts: 3,194
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rockjockey
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More about it.
http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/termlimits.asp
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02-27-2013, 11:48
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#42
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Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Oregon - U.S.A
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02-27-2013, 12:14
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#43
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Señor Member
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: fl
Posts: 3,142
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Slug71
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Thank you for posting these. He's got the right stuff.
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Opinions are like noses...everybody's got one.
"Almost no matter the question, capitalism and freedom are the answers, while government and religion are not." Syclone538
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03-01-2013, 12:11
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#44
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Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Oregon - U.S.A
Posts: 3,194
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03-01-2013, 12:12
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#45
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Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Oregon - U.S.A
Posts: 3,194
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hogfish
Thank you for posting these. He's got the right stuff.
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No prob.
Figured it will be good to revisit come election time. 
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03-01-2013, 12:40
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#46
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Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Charlotte, NC
Posts: 748
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Quote:
Originally Posted by czsmithGT
No it's based on US law.
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Correct. However, moonbat birthers don't let little things like actual laws get in the way of a good hissy fit.
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03-02-2013, 22:59
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#47
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Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Lacey, WA
Posts: 807
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EnemyOfTheState
We have bigger problems in this country now than whether or not two gay people can get married, I think the GOP needs to focus on free market economics and limited government and stop trying to turn the government into a moral enforcer.
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Can I get an AMEN?
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03-03-2013, 06:21
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#48
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"Cracker"
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 10,721
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hogfish
Thank you for posting these. He's got the right stuff.
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So did his dad but he was old and had a bad public speaking voice.
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03-03-2013, 06:38
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#49
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Unreconstructed
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: "Our side of the barbed wire"
Posts: 8,094
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The big question is will the neocons and party hacks control this guy. If so, he'll be the next golden boy. If not, the knives will come out come primary time. It's a battle- that's why he's got to start running now. If he can show the hacks that he's got the real support of GOP voters, he'll have a better chance at the bargaining table. If not, the hacks will have the average republican believing he's a gay, drug-using, anarchist peacenik by 2015.
Last edited by barbedwiresmile; 03-03-2013 at 06:40..
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03-03-2013, 07:17
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#50
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Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: VATENNOLINA
Posts: 213
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Quote:
Originally Posted by czsmithGT
He was born in Canada. His father Cuban, his mother American, so he is a natural born US citizen.
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Is there supposed to be a /sarcasm at the end of that statement?
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