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Old 03-07-2013, 21:02   #221
fortyofforty
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If recreational drugs which are presently illegal were made legal in the same way alcohol was (re)legalized, why would the result be significantly different?[/URL]
All drugs are "recreational", at least according to the people who choose to use them. Good luck picking and choosing your favorites to legalize, and realize you are making judgment calls and drawing lines on a continuum, just like everyone else.
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Old 03-08-2013, 06:09   #222
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How about free market capitalism? Why is someone’s IQ the Government’s concern? IQ is something a central planner is interested in.

In a free market system, the smart become gifted stock pickers like Warren Buffett. The not so smart marry Warren, as Buffett describes his second wife as someone who enjoys shoveling snow.

Anyway, changes are coming as the current system is unsustainable.

As it stands now, the USA is borrowing money from the Chinese to maintain our underclass in middleclass style all while many Chinese are surviving on less than $2/day.

Surely this is not lost on the Chinese and maybe it is their plan to destroy us via dysgenics.
Any good government's primary concern should be the future well being of the state. Amongst other things this means that it should act to avoid dysgenic developmentss of government or society. The governments of the USA and the UK, as well as others, have encouraged and allowed the influx of large numbers of people or lower ability levels, of various kinds, than what was then the norm for their populations. This is actually a dysgenic move. The loans from the Chinese do no more than allow these policies to continue.

In a free market capitalist system the clever and industrious will still rise to the top but the weight of a lower average to the population will drain more wealth from the system and produce greater social unrest amongst the growing numbers of have-nots. If the social conditions allow the have-nots to increase their numbers at a higher rate than average and above average part of the problem, that social problem will continue to worsen. The end result will be a social collapse in which the free market capitalist system will cease to exist.

That will, of course, lead to a large die back of the population in which the unscrupulous, violent and clever will slowly supplant the incompetent, of which many will also be violent. Eventually, a government based on free market capitalist system might come into existence once again and replace the gangster run system which will be the consequence of collapse. The question you have to ask yourself is how long do you think you would have to wait and would it then be better to avoid or escape the dysgenic trap in the first place?

The world and history are absolutely full of examples showing that free market capitalism is not a stable system but one that needs continued support from and intelligent and knowledgeable government and people.

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Old 03-08-2013, 06:18   #223
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It explains why all IQ test find the same things.
No, it demonstrates that you haven't done much reading or research on IQ tests or the allegations of cultural bias. IQ tests have been an interest of mine since I first started taking them as a youngster and, based on what I have seen, both in research and the real world, I don't buy the claims that differing IQ scores are a defect in the test.
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Old 03-08-2013, 06:27   #224
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Also related to the fact that the original slaves were partly those who were not bright enough to avoid being caught by the slave traders and were partly those sold by their own tribes as not being bright enough to want to keep. That is, their ancestry brought lower than average IQ relative to their area of Africa with them. Then when they got to the USA the brighter ones would be seen as dangerous and culled by their owners.

English
Plausible. However, consider a case of a bright an inventive engineer who has low Emotional Intelligence. In a politically charged setting, he'd be dumped by a clan since he can't get along. But he has high technical IQ. Rare, but possible.


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Old 03-08-2013, 09:20   #225
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No, it demonstrates that you haven't done much reading or research on IQ tests or the allegations of cultural bias. IQ tests have been an interest of mine since I first started taking them as a youngster and, based on what I have seen, both in research and the real world, I don't buy the claims that differing IQ scores are a defect in the test.
As always you impugn someone's intellect when you get backed into an intellectual corner. You could not be more wrong about my lack of reading. I have an M.Ed in Educational Psychology. I have designed and tested tests. I know how it's done and how it has been done. What are your credentials?

Do the people who design IQ tests define IQ as being like them? How could they define it otherwise? How could they define intelligence as something about which they were ignorant? Are there any welding questions on an IQ test? Since welding requires a certain degree knowledge and is extremely important in the modern world, why aren't there any welding questions on an IQ test? Is it because the people who design the tests don't know anything about welding, and therefore, consider it irrelevant? What else do the the people who design these tests dismiss because they know nothing about them, or consider them unimportant? Who's to say what belongs on an IQ test?

Then Gardner came along and blew the whole concept of IQ out of the water. Consensus among educational researchers is that we really don't know what intelligence is and therefore do not know how to measure it. That's not to say it doesn't exist. We just don't know enough about it to accurately define it. Consequently, we can't accurately measure it.
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Old 03-08-2013, 10:53   #226
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I said...
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IQ tests are biased, is the common excuse. But, for some reason, no one has ever been able to design a IQ test that is biased in such a manner that the racial breakdown differs significantly from previous tests.
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Originally Posted by muscogee View Post
IQ test always find what the designers of the IQ test expect to find. If they don't then the test is declared invalid.
Do you not think that someone in today's political climate would be interested in designing a test that contradicted the historical results?
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Old 03-08-2013, 11:19   #227
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Regents tests for high school students in NYS were deemed 'unfair' and the changes to them included cutting back on the "number of words' (too many words was one criticism), then the passing scores were dropped so that more poor students could graduate with a Regents Diploma.. I have no idea how far that idiocy has actually been accepted and developed lately, but back a while ago, the only people being fooled were the teachers, regents, and a few parents.
The kids all knew the system was a joke.

As Garrison Keillor says, "... where all the women are strong, the men good-looking, and the kids are above average.."

That's maybe what we need the IQ tests to do, score everyone on a flexible curve which declares all genius and above.
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Old 03-08-2013, 11:44   #228
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Skyhook - what you have described is the happy horse**** that liberals bring to the table. They need to face up, there are winners and losers in life and you can call a loser a winner - but he is still a loser.

Had the same crap when my kids were little and the town decided that they would no longer keep score in T-ball, and everyone would get a "participation" Trophy. Well the umps might not have kept score, but the kids sure did. Even they were smart enough to see what a joke it was.
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Old 03-08-2013, 11:48   #229
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Skyhook - what you have described is the happy horse**** that liberals bring to the table. They need to face up, there are winners and losers in life and you can call a loser a winner - but he is still a loser.

Had the same crap when my kids were little and the town decided that they would no longer keep score in T-ball, and everyone would get a "participation" Trophy. Well the umps might not have kept score, but the kids sure did. Even they were smart enough to see what a joke it was.

Kids know.. they know a lot about fairness and foul crapola.

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Old 03-08-2013, 11:50   #230
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That's maybe what we need the IQ tests to do, score everyone on a flexible curve which declares all genius and above.
And then give 'em a trophy.
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Old 03-08-2013, 13:16   #231
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Do you not think that someone in today's political climate would be interested in designing a test that contradicted the historical results?
The best polical move in this country has been to USE the group of people with low IQ and talley their votes in your corner, so you can gain power.

Why would you want to invent more tests? Our beloved democratic system has both strengths and weaknesses. It offers huge opportunity for those with IQs to exploit those with low IQs by using their votes. But if we'd move to a full Socialist or any other system, the picture remains the same: low IQs get used.
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Old 03-08-2013, 13:20   #232
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I can see how the thinking of some people have gotten them in the mess that they are in and believe me it doesn't have a thing to do with race. Some of them are right here on this website.
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Old 03-08-2013, 16:12   #233
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I said...



Do you not think that someone in today's political climate would be interested in designing a test that contradicted the historical results?
If they did that in any political climate, they wouldn't get published so you would never know about it.
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Old 03-09-2013, 08:58   #234
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No, it demonstrates that you haven't done much reading or research on IQ tests or the allegations of cultural bias. IQ tests have been an interest of mine since I first started taking them as a youngster and, based on what I have seen, both in research and the real world, I don't buy the claims that differing IQ scores are a defect in the test.
I''ve always wondered, how do you put a cultural bias into math testing?

I guess you could ask, "If Willie has a half an ounce of cocaine, and wants to convert it to crack, how many eightballs will he have when he is done if he doesn't step on it with anything?
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Old 03-09-2013, 09:08   #235
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I''ve always wondered, how do you put a cultural bias into math testing?

I guess you could ask, "If Willie has a half an ounce of cocaine, and wants to convert it to crack, how many eightballs will he have when he is done if he doesn't step on it with anything?

...Or tests for spatial perception, like "memorize as much of these patterns as you can in 15 seconds, then draw them on the next page..."


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Old 03-09-2013, 09:10   #236
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I''ve always wondered, how do you put a cultural bias into math testing?

I guess you could ask, "If Willie has a half an ounce of cocaine, and wants to convert it to crack, how many eightballs will he have when he is done if he doesn't step on it with anything?
How many joints in a dime bag if cheech is smoking?...

If I throw 6 shots with a Glock fotee, how many left in the clip?...

If 9 GDs come to rob me, and I cap 3 a dey asses, how many I gotta cap tomorrow?...


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Old 03-09-2013, 09:13   #237
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I''ve always wondered, how do you put a cultural bias into math testing?

I guess you could ask, "If Willie has a half an ounce of cocaine, and wants to convert it to crack, how many eightballs will he have when he is done if he doesn't step on it with anything?
How about, "When would you use a ten round regular rather than an eight round eue?"
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Old 03-09-2013, 09:52   #238
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If they did that in any political climate, they wouldn't get published so you would never know about it.
You're kiddin', right? Or are you just bullsh..ing.

In today's political climate, if an IQ test revealed results that demonstrated that one of the groups that traditionally was at the lower end of the scale, was "equal" to those that traditionally score at the high end, it would be trumpeted with great fanfare.
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Old 03-09-2013, 10:45   #239
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You're kiddin', right? Or are you just bullsh..ing.

In today's political climate, if an IQ test revealed results that demonstrated that one of the groups that traditionally was at the lower end of the scale, was "equal" to those that traditionally score at the high end, it would be trumpeted with great fanfare.
Once again, what is intelligence? The people at the lower end of the scale don't make the tests. You ignored my earlier question. How can you define intelligence as something you don't know? IQ test measure what those who make the tests define as intelligence. It's easy to make a test showing people who think like you are intellectually superior to other people. The Army Alpha "proved" that intelligent people lived close to Harvard. The further from Harvard you lived, the less intelligent you were. If you grew up in Texas you were towards the bottom of the scale.

In the Nineteenth Century Broca attempted to measure intelligence by measuring brain volume. He would fill the brain capacities of dead peoples skulls with sawdust and then pour the sawdust into a graduated cylinder to measure the volume. He found that White European men were at the top and Black African women were at the bottom in terms of brain volume. Suddenly, everyone war replicating his research and finding the same things. Then some German researchers found that Germans had bigger brains than the French. The French immediately accused the German researchers of bias and pointed out that Germans had bigger bodies so they would natural have bigger heads with larger brain cavities. After that the entire endeavor collapsed among charges and counter charges of bias. The point is, as much as we may try to avoid our own biases, we can't entirely do that. Until Africans have the political power to start defining intelligence, all IQ test will show them at the bottom of the scale.
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Old 03-09-2013, 15:12   #240
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There is a lot more to it, Muskogee, than who writes the tests. If a group of less intelligent people write tests that they can score well on, does that actually make them smarter? No.

Besides, liberal educators have been dumbing down our schools for years, because they don't like it that some students are smarter than others.


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