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Old 03-15-2013, 08:03   #276
muscogee
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Originally Posted by Gunboat1 View Post
Not metro Atlanta, the city of Atlanta. It's a craphole. It makes the case by contrast with its suburbs.
San Antonio is run primarily by Mexican-Americans. It's a great place to vacation and raise children. I love it here. Like all cities, there are places I tend to avoid, but I live in an area where crime consists of bratty kids acting like bratty kids. Last week someone hid my trash can. It was more humorous than irritating. I just found it and brought it back in time for the truck to pick it up.
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Old 03-15-2013, 08:36   #277
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San Antonio is run primarily by Mexican-Americans. It's a great place to vacation and raise children. I love it here. Like all cities, there are places I tend to avoid, but I live in an area where crime consists of bratty kids acting like bratty kids. Last week someone hid my trash can. I just found it and brought it back. It was more humorous than irritating. I just found it and brought it back in time for the truck to pick it up.

I recall a sociological study conducted way-back-when analyzing the development of the immigrant Mexican-American population in Texas versus that in southern California.

In Texas, where there was no (at the time) major progressive push toward providing entitlement services to immigrants (or any other people), the Mexicans simply assimilated into the Texas population at large, and continued the fundamental work ethic which had caused them to immigrate in the first place.

In the major population centers of southern California (notably Los Angeles), which already had an entrenched, heavily African-American entitlement culture, many Mexicans adopted that culture (a case of doing as the Romans do, so to speak).

That study came out quite a while ago, and the dynamics of both regions have apparently changed quite a bit -- in that California has become even more progressive, and some of the major population centers of Texas have started adopting that progressivism. Still, it provides some interesting food for thought.


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Old 03-15-2013, 08:49   #278
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This discussion of measuring IQ has strayed way off from the OP's original contention. Young black males commit gun violence at an astoundingly high rate.

Those same black males also tend to be uneducated. They may or may not tend to have lower than average intelligence.

But you cannot say that causes the gun crimes. All races and cultures in America have substantial numbers of dumb and uneducated young males, but they are not out there shooting people.


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The problem is not that there are some dumb and uneducated black males but that it is a substantial majority. Dumb as they are, they are not so dumb that they cannot recognize that very few of their peer group are going to make progress within the socio economic system. There are then two possible group reactions to this simple observation. The logical one is that this is the way things really are and they should settle down to make the best of it. The natural one, since it is very hard to accept such a thing, is that it is a conspiracy against them. They are supported in this by socialist/liberal philosophy and by black politicians who care little about any philosophy or morality other than getting as much for themselves as possible.

Within that framework of anger and hatred they make it very difficult for any of their more intelligent brothers and sisters to gain a good education and move into the economic mainstream. That is, such children are derided and bullied for being part white, or black on the outside and white on the inside like some candy bar, the name of which I forget.

Because of justified guilt about the history of slavery in the USA, the black community is allowed to get away with not working hard enough at school, of bad behavior and blatant bullying at school, and then petty criminality in early teens. All this leads to proper criminality and jail. It is easy to say that this means that most of the next generation of boys are brought up without male role models, but this is wrong. They have lots of male role models in the form of criminals and bullies. What they lack are respectable role models because most of them live in societies where the great majority are criminals, ex criminals and would be criminals.

The combination of anger and hatred against other racial groups combined with a majority criminal culture leads inevitably to gun crime. There is no empathy for other groups because they are seen as less than human. They live in criminal gangs which compete with other criminal gangs, and since they are violent by nature, that competition leads to gang warfare. The result is lethal violence directed both at other races and their own.

I hope I am not accused of racism for this because all I am doing is trying to describe the situation as it is. Until the reality is accepted we will make no progress with a solution. In the non pejorative sense I am, of course, racist since I believe not only that there are racial groups with racial differences, but that this is an inevitable consequence of evolution. Within limits, the selective forces that produced different skin colors are linked to those which produce different mental abilities, but skin color as such is an irrelevance.

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Old 03-15-2013, 08:50   #279
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Originally Posted by JFrame View Post
I recall a sociological study conducted way-back-when analyzing the development of the immigrant Mexican-American population in Texas versus that in southern California.

In Texas, where there was no (at the time) major progressive push toward providing entitlement services to immigrants (or any other people), the Mexicans simply assimilated into the Texas population at large, and continued the fundamental work ethic which had caused them to immigrate in the first place.

In the major population centers of southern California (notably Los Angeles), which already had an entrenched, heavily African-American entitlement culture, many Mexicans adopted that culture (a case of doing as the Romans do, so to speak).

That study came out quite a while ago, and the dynamics of both regions have apparently changed quite a bit -- in that California has become even more progressive, and some of the major population centers of Texas have started adopting that progressivism. Still, it provides some interesting food for thought.


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Anecdotal confirmation of several basic thoughts most reasonable folks would be having. 'Folks is folks' and they are adaptable. How they adapt and what they emerge as is variable.
Good one, JFrame.
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Old 03-15-2013, 09:17   #280
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Originally Posted by IvanVic View Post
My guess is that you've never been exposed to any black culture outside of what you read on the internet.

It's sad that when adults try to speak, eventually you have the true racists show up and blame the entire thing on skin color.

Any population, regardless of skin color, that has an out of wedlock birth rate of 73% is going to have issues with education, parental guidance, poverty, and consequently, crime. These things are problems that they created themselves and will need to fix on their own, but your "logic" is way off.

Let me guess, some of your best friends are black? No no, wait I know, you're going to characterize my pointing out of your obvious racism as "playing the race card," right?


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You are making assumptions.I've dealt with black culture for right at 20yrs/job related I've seen both good and bad from all ethnic groups.The overwhelming #s involve the black community,hispanics are a distant 2nd.


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Your guess would be wrong, sport. I was bussed for over 3 hours a day into a formerly all-black inner city school as part of court-ordered desegregation measures in the 1970's. I served in the military for 21 years. I served in the federal government for over 30 years, combined service. I have had plenty of exposure to "black culture".

You can try and claim that the ills of "black culture" are all the fault of oppression by "da man" all you want. Calling a bird a fish can't make it swim.

Challenge: Show us an example of a successful minority-run city in America - one with low crime, low political corruption, successful and well-run social services, and proper facilities maintenance. I'll be waiting right here........

Let me save you some trouble. When losing an argument, yell "Dat's Racisss!"


Thank you.'08.
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Old 03-15-2013, 09:48   #281
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Anecdotal confirmation of several basic thoughts most reasonable folks would be having. 'Folks is folks' and they are adaptable. How they adapt and what they emerge as is variable.
Good one, JFrame.
Thanks, 'Hook! Political Issues


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Old 03-15-2013, 10:00   #282
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Within that framework of anger and hatred they make it very difficult for any of their more intelligent brothers and sisters to gain a good education and move into the economic mainstream. That is, such children are derided and bullied for being part white, or black on the outside and white on the inside like some candy bar, the name of which I forget.
It's an Oreo. Political IssuesThat's Thomas Swoell's argument. He takes it step farther and says this mindset is augmented by white liberals and that this is the main thing that keep the black population in the U.S. at the bottom of the socioeconomic ladder.
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Old 03-15-2013, 10:56   #283
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Your guess would be wrong, sport. I was bussed for over 3 hours a day into a formerly all-black inner city school as part of court-ordered desegregation measures in the 1970's. I served in the military for 21 years. I served in the federal government for over 30 years, combined service. I have had plenty of exposure to "black culture".

You can try and claim that the ills of "black culture" are all the fault of oppression by "da man" all you want. Calling a bird a fish can't make it swim.

Challenge: Show us an example of a successful minority-run city in America - one with low crime, low political corruption, successful and well-run social services, and proper facilities maintenance. I'll be waiting right here........

Let me save you some trouble. When losing an argument, yell "Dat's Racisss!"
I never said the cause was oppression. If you're too incompetent to read my entire post, there's not much I can do.

Oh, and large metropolitan cities, because of their dense and vast population, ALL have high crime rates, so your "challenge" is a loaded question.


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Old 03-15-2013, 10:57   #284
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THIS is outstanding!!

Originally Posted by Gunboat1 View Post
Your guess would be wrong, sport. I was bussed for over 3 hours a day into a formerly all-black inner city school as part of court-ordered desegregation measures in the 1970's. I served in the military for 21 years. I served in the federal government for over 30 years, combined service. I have had plenty of exposure to "black culture".

You can try and claim that the ills of "black culture" are all the fault of oppression by "da man" all you want. Calling a bird a fish can't make it swim.

Challenge: Show us an example of a successful minority-run city in America - one with low crime, low political corruption, successful and well-run social services, and proper facilities maintenance. I'll be waiting right here........

Let me save you some trouble. When losing an argument, yell "Dat's Racisss!"
Thank you for your service.

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Old 03-15-2013, 19:33   #285
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Oh, and large metropolitan cities, because of their dense and vast population, ALL have high crime rates, so your "challenge" is a loaded question.


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The high crime areas are almost always majority black. I'll use the city of Chicago as an example.

This is a chart of personal and property that divided the perpetrators by race. Notice anything?
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Old 03-15-2013, 19:36   #286
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It's an Oreo. Political IssuesThat's Thomas Swoell's argument. He takes it step farther and says this mindset is augmented by white liberals and that this is the main thing that keep the black population in the U.S. at the bottom of the socioeconomic ladder.

He's wrong. It's the average IQ of 85. The higher a nations average IQ, the wealthier they tend to be.

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Old 03-15-2013, 22:17   #287
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Miller time.
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Old 03-16-2013, 05:34   #288
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Originally Posted by Skyhook View Post
Originally Posted by Gunboat1 View Post
Your guess would be wrong, sport. I was bussed for over 3 hours a day into a formerly all-black inner city school as part of court-ordered desegregation measures in the 1970's. I served in the military for 21 years. I served in the federal government for over 30 years, combined service. I have had plenty of exposure to "black culture".

You can try and claim that the ills of "black culture" are all the fault of oppression by "da man" all you want. Calling a bird a fish can't make it swim.

Challenge: Show us an example of a successful minority-run city in America - one with low crime, low political corruption, successful and well-run social services, and proper facilities maintenance. I'll be waiting right here........

Let me save you some trouble. When losing an argument, yell "Dat's Racisss!"
Thank you for your service.

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Old 03-16-2013, 05:39   #289
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I never said the cause was oppression. If you're too incompetent to read my entire post, there's not much I can do.

Oh, and large metropolitan cities, because of their dense and vast population, ALL have high crime rates, so your "challenge" is a loaded question.


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Yeah, Salt Lake City is a veritable snakepit of crime. Ditto Helena or Boise.
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Old 03-16-2013, 06:00   #290
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The high crime areas are almost always majority black.
Hmm. What about Washington DC ? There's low level crimes and there's higher level crimes. Benghazi comes to mind, among others.

Crimes to be discovered in future administrations committed by present administration, and by future administrations, just to be fair.
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Old 03-16-2013, 06:21   #291
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Yeah, Salt Lake City is a veritable snakepit of crime. Ditto Helena or Boise.
Lol @ Salt Lake City, Helena or Boise being a large metropolitan city. That's cute.


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Old 03-16-2013, 06:37   #292
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He's wrong. It's the average IQ of 85. The higher a nations average IQ, the wealthier they tend to be.

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Do most nations test everyone like we do or just those they consider college martial? Could that skew the curve?
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Old 03-18-2013, 10:47   #293
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Or we can do some before and afters.

Detroit in the 50s and Detriot today. Or, Johannesburg, South Africa in the 90s and Johannesburg today.

Now, what differences do both cities have in common with regards to before and after?
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Old 03-18-2013, 10:56   #294
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Or we can do some before and afters.

Detroit in the 50s and Detriot today. Or, Johannesburg, South Africa in the 90s and Johannesburg today.

Now, what differences do both cities have in common with regards to before and after?

Man, you are brutal!

Just imagine the mental anguish that question is going to cause our -RATS and run of the mill lefties.

Be ready to receive some (repeat) hate mail.
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Old 03-18-2013, 11:32   #295
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Or we can do some before and afters.

Detroit in the 50s and Detriot today. Or, Johannesburg, South Africa in the 90s and Johannesburg today.

Now, what differences do both cities have in common with regards to before and after?
Most educated, middle class and upperclass blacks, along with every other race, left Detroit a long time ago, leaving behind poor and uneducated people.

If race was the root cause and not poverty, then suburbs of middle class,upper middle class, and upperclass blacks would have all of the same problems, but they don't.


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Old 03-18-2013, 12:05   #296
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Poverty follows the black race consistently. Now, of course I'm speaking generally here and of course there are many exceptions...many examples of black achievers. But, if you look at this race in their native land, and you look at this race in the Carribean, and if you look at this race here in America, in spite of all the "help" that has been given them over the last 60 years, they are clearly not a race of achievers in general. The average Black African, even with the vast natural resources available on that continent, is doing worse economically than he was during colonial rule. They continue to insist on maintaining a tribal culture, even among the elite, with the traditional jealousies, feuds, wars and general mayhem inherent in that system. Here in America, they also maintain their own culture to a significant degree. Which would be fine, if it weren't so destructive. Their culture is too often based around "hate whitey, screw school, be gangsta". And, even with the $trillions the American taxpayer has donated to the cause over the last 6 decades, this "culture" has resulted in regression, not progression for the black race overall. Now, I'M STILL SPEAKING GENERALLY, for you nitwits who have the urge to run in here with "examples" of how this isn't true. I KNOW there are such examples...there are always exceptions.

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Old 03-18-2013, 12:30   #297
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Most educated, middle class and upperclass blacks, along with every other race, left Detroit a long time ago, leaving behind poor and uneducated people.

If race was the root cause and not poverty, then suburbs of middle class,upper middle class, and upperclass blacks would have all of the same problems, but they don't.


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Can you provide any reverse examples in which there was a mass exodus of blacks from a city leaving whites to bankrupt it and crime took over?
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Old 03-18-2013, 13:23   #298
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Poverty follows the black race consistently. Now, of course I'm speaking generally here and of course there are many exceptions...many examples of black achievers. But, if you look at this race in their native land, and you look at this race in the Carribean, and if you look at this race here in America, inspite of all the "help" that has been given them over the last 60 years, they are clearly not a race of achievers in general. The average Black African, even with the vast natural resources available on that continent, is doing worse economically than he was during colonial rule. They continue to insist on maintaining a tribal culture, even among the elite, with the traditional jealousies, feuds, wars and general mayhem inherent in that system. Here in America, they also maintain their own culture to a significant degree. Which would be fine, if it weren't so destructive. Their culture is too often based around "hate whitey, screw school, be gangsta". And, even with the $trillions the American taxpayer has donated to the cause over the last 6 decades, this "culture" has resulted in regression, not progression for the black race overall. Now, I'M STILL SPEAKING GENERALLY, for you nitwits who have the urge to run in here with "examples" of how this isn't true. I KNOW there are such examples...there are always exceptions.
I don't think poverty follows blacks. I don't even think they take it with them wherever they go. It's much worse than that. Wherever blacks go in America, they lay economic waste. In Milwaukee, where I lived for 30 years, blacks originally mostly lived in a small area just north of the downtown area. As their population grew in the '70's, they started to move out of that area. First they moved mostly north, and then later, as they bumped up against mostly white suburbs, they then headed northwest.

The mostly white collar counties have stayed prosperous. The south side of the City of Milwaukee, although possessing a large Hispanic population, and suffering from some street gang issues, has also continued to do well.

The pillage in the vast swath of the city that blacks have occupied over the past 40 years is just staggering to look at. You can drive through neighborhoods, and, without even looking at the people who live there, you can tell by the economic blight that it is a black area of the city. Its as if Katrina took a sharp turn north and blew through Milwaukee. Restaurants, auto dealers, banks, supermarkets, huge glittering shopping malls- all gone. I could go on and on, the but the number of businesses that closed or fled to the suburbs as blacks entered each area is simply astounding. The housing, the cars, the roads, parking lots, vacant lots, vacant buildings- everything looks like a third world nation.

The few businesses that stay there tend to be owned by Arabs or Pakistanis. Black-owed businesses are the exception, rather than the rule.

I can't put myself in their shoes, but I have to think that if I were black, I would be thoroughly ashamed by scale of the harm that my race has done to America in the past few decades.

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Old 03-18-2013, 13:26   #299
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Can you provide any reverse examples in which there was a mass exodus of blacks from a city leaving whites to bankrupt it and crime took over?
That would be like providing a reverse example of an IQ test being biased to favor blacks over whites.

It just can't be done.
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Old 03-18-2013, 13:47   #300
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Can you provide any reverse examples in which there was a mass exodus of blacks from a city leaving whites to bankrupt it and crime took over?
I didn't say there was a mass exodus of whites. Did you even read my post? I said there was an exodus of educated, middle class and above people of ALL races. Look at education and poverty levels of whites in much of the south. The region has the highest number of social welfare users and some of the lowest per capita income. Poverty is certainly not race specific, and again, if your hypothesis was true, middle class and affluent black suburbs would have the same issues as Detroit, and they don't.


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