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Old 02-28-2013, 03:30   #121
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Fascinating thread.
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Old 02-28-2013, 04:25   #122
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Originally Posted by Glock_Convert View Post
If you download the raw data from the FBI Uniform Crime Report (available in MS Excel format on there website) and the CDC's data, you can slice and dice the data any way you want. If you remove blacks and Hispanics from the data, the US homicide rate drops from about 4.4 per 100k to 1.9. 1.9 is comparable to European countries and Canada where they do not have large, poor, minority populations. Looking at overall violent crime, I was able to calculate that 86% of all violent crime in the country is committed by members of the black and Hispanic minorities...23% of the US population. Meanwhile, the rates among members of other races living in poverty are no where near as high...so there is definitely something more than just poverty at the heart of this. I believe there is a cultural disposition towards violence. Before the flames start, my last statement was the only opinion stated here: the rest is cold hard stats you can easily verify for yourselves using the UCR and CDC data.


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This.

But no one wants to deal with the elephant in the livingroom. The problem could be solved almost overnight but no one wants to stop feeding, medicating, and cleaning up after the elephant.

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Old 02-28-2013, 04:26   #123
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This.

But no one wants to deal with the elephant in the livingroom. The problem could be solved almost overnight but no one wants to stop feeding, medicating, and cleaning up after the elephant.

Gray_Rider
How could it be solved "almost overnight?"


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Old 02-28-2013, 05:49   #124
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In before the lock!

The gun problem is NOT a black problem, it's a social problem that affects everyone.
It may affect everyone, but it isn't caused by everyone. I recall a thread a while back about our crime statistics being better than northern europe if you eliminated the black population from the statistics. Some blogger mentioned here a while back said, "Republicans want guns to defend themselves against black people and Democrats are against guns because they want to disarm black people, of whom they are afraid." That about sums it up.

But we aren't allowed to talk about that, so we keep talking about it like everybody is equally to blame. It's like when the TSA ignores 3 arab men and searches a grandmother from Kansas, because it wouldn't be fair to target members of the suspect group.
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Old 02-28-2013, 06:55   #125
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The problem is predominantly one of young, inner city minorities shooting one another. This is the result of 100 years of liberal Progressive welfare policies that have destroyed the family unit.

It is hard to commit street corner violence at 1am when you've been working all day and have to be at work at 7am the next morning.
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Old 02-28-2013, 07:28   #126
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Not everyone is a "druggie" who has the opinion that the drug laws and particularly the drug war needs to be ended. Some of us formerly worked in law enforcement. As a narcotic detector dog handler in particular.
I have the very strong conviction that the cost of enforcing these laws is ridiculous and the existence of those laws has created environmental impacts in the form of ecological disaster areas where illegal meth labs have been built and used.
The number of people gunned down by drug thugs, either the ones with the sagging pants or the ones with badges, is outrageous.
Drug laws are so successful we have had to have our freedoms stripped away from us because police can't do their jobs without:
Asset seizure and forfeiture laws
Masked intruders making midnight raids into private dwellings.
Workplace drug testing because they need help from business
Weakened search and seizure laws because without them the bad guys get away
The list goes on and on. I for one would rather have a few folks down the street smoking weed than have a JBT on every corner.
Insanity is doing the same thing again and again and expecting a different result. Law enforcement needs to learn a little about human nature.
You were no cop if you're now using the term "JBT"..
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Old 02-28-2013, 09:26   #127
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I think that Democrat politicians are racist for pushing gun control. Gun control seems to affect minorities disproportionately if you consider the fact that licensing and training costs as well as transportation to required training and government offices could create a hardship for poor minorities, which would make it more difficult to defend themselves legally. We have also heard that the reason why states can't demand voter ID is because it could affect minorities. How is this any different when considering gun control and ID, and FOID cards in IL? The gun control legislation that is being pushed that would tax gun sales and ammunition would also further hinder poor minorities from being able to defend themselves.

Gun control began with Democrats and the KKK trying to prevent blacks from having the means to defend themselves and continues today with gun control laws that affect the poor and those living in high crime areas like Chicago the most.

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Old 02-28-2013, 09:33   #128
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Gun control began with Democrats and the KKK trying to prevent blacks from having the means to defend themselves and continues today with gun control laws that affect the poor and those living in high crime areas like Chicago the most.
I don't even recall at this point if this link was posted earlier -- in any case, it bears repeating:

http://joemiller.us/2013/02/frederic...m_medium=email

These folks do "get it"...

.
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Old 02-28-2013, 09:39   #129
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I don't even recall at this point if this link was posted earlier -- in any case, it bears repeating:

http://joemiller.us/2013/02/frederic...m_medium=email

These folks do "get it"...

.
Sadly, I don't think most Democrats "get it". I have given up on trying to use logic with liberals when discussing gun control. When I talk about how gun control and its history is racist and give examples beginning with the KKK and ending with recent examples, they suddenly "get it". They never realize just how racist their party is because their party is too busy calling conservatives racists and they believe their politicians as well as liberal media.
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Old 02-28-2013, 11:59   #130
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Yes.

If prohibition was successful, our society would be better for it.

Most people have a subconscious death drive and will destroy themselves with anything they can get their hands on.

It would of been one less self-destructive tool available.
This is a policy that seeks to force people into an ideal mold. Socialism does precisely that!

It was discovered long ago that some policies are futile. The result in a few countries was the right to freedom of religion. The great thing about almost all religions is that they think all other religions are wrong. That produces a general tendency to force your own religion onto others if you have the power to do so. There is a ten thousand year history behind precisely this. Not until 1688 did a government decide that it had never worked and would never work and achieved nothing more that bloodshed and the destruction of wealth. They produced a Bill of Rights that prevented the government from interfering with a individual's choice of religion.

It would undoubtedly be better if there were no drugs and no alcohol but they exist and will not go away. Many people will continue to want social drugs and will take dangerous risks to get them. This is reality and we need to live with it in a strategically sensible way rather than pretending that it can be changed. Trying to change reality is a game for fools.

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Old 02-28-2013, 13:08   #131
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Well, the mafia didn't quit killing people when prohibition ended. What would be the basis of a theory that drug dealers would quit killing people if drugs were legalized?
Would they quit being sociopaths?
Your argument defeats itself.

The mafia didn't quit killing people when ALCOHOL prohibition ended...because prohibition didn't end. When alcohol became legal that area instantly became unprofitable to them, but prohibition was still going on in other areas - gambling, drugs and prostitution being big ones. They just moved on to other black markets caused by other forms of prohibition. Rather than refuting the prohibition/legalization argument, you prove it.
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Old 02-28-2013, 16:52   #132
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This is a policy that seeks to force people into an ideal mold. Socialism does precisely that!

It would undoubtedly be better if there were no drugs and no alcohol but they exist and will not go away. Many people will continue to want social drugs and will take dangerous risks to get them. This is reality and we need to live with it in a strategically sensible way rather than pretending that it can be changed. Trying to change reality is a game for fools.
Are you kidding me??

This thinking of people should be able to completely self destruct either rapidly or over a period of time without intervention to save that person is doing a disservice to those people.

It's funny how alot of people are on either extremes when it comes to this topic. I truly do believe that either extreme produces terrible results!

We as a nation must be somewhere in the middle inbetween the extremes to achieve the best results!

Think about it, do you want to live in the extreme where 20yr olds are destroying themselves with crack and mothers are killing their unborn children on a whim!

Or do you want to be in a society where everyone is essentially wrapped in bubble wrap by the government to "protect us from ourselves"? With next to no personal liberty?

Those who have mental and moral clarity will agree... We must be very middle of the road on the issue of personal liberty!
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Old 03-01-2013, 07:09   #133
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Are you kidding me??

This thinking of people should be able to completely self destruct either rapidly or over a period of time without intervention to save that person is doing a disservice to those people.

It's funny how alot of people are on either extremes when it comes to this topic. I truly do believe that either extreme produces terrible results!

We as a nation must be somewhere in the middle inbetween the extremes to achieve the best results!

Think about it, do you want to live in the extreme where 20yr olds are destroying themselves with crack and mothers are killing their unborn children on a whim!

Or do you want to be in a society where everyone is essentially wrapped in bubble wrap by the government to "protect us from ourselves"? With next to no personal liberty?

Those who have mental and moral clarity will agree... We must be very middle of the road on the issue of personal liberty!
No I am not kidding you at all.

Firstly, I did say we should deal with these problems in a strategically sensible way. That is, a way which will achieve the desired end and in particular will not make the problem worse.

Secondly, we have lived through too many generations where selection has been far too week. You seem to believe that humanity can survive while going against the realities of biology. The sooner many people are left to self destruct the better! We do not owe these people a service to save them from themselves. We do need to provide decent education for all who can take advantage of it because a technological democracy cannot survive without that basis. That education should include the dangers of drugs and alcohol in graphic terms. Those who cannot survive by their own means after that, apart from temporary emergencies must depend on their families and not on the charity of the tax payer funded state. Those who are too tender minded to live with this will find plenty of charities to give money to.

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Old 03-01-2013, 07:32   #134
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Originally Posted by certifiedfunds View Post
The problem is predominantly one of young, inner city minorities shooting one another. This is the result of 100 years of liberal Progressive welfare policies that have destroyed the family unit.

It is hard to commit street corner violence at 1am when you've been working all day and have to be at work at 7am the next morning.
This! You don't get in midnight gunfights if you are in bed by 10 PM because you have to work the following day. However, if all you have to do to be fed is pick up your EBT card at noon and swipe it at the store.....then you have a bit more time to play with.......
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Old 03-01-2013, 07:43   #135
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Your argument defeats itself.

The mafia didn't quit killing people when ALCOHOL prohibition ended...because prohibition didn't end. When alcohol became legal that area instantly became unprofitable to them, but prohibition was still going on in other areas - gambling, drugs and prostitution being big ones. They just moved on to other black markets caused by other forms of prohibition. Rather than refuting the prohibition/legalization argument, you prove it.
Almost all of the career criminals I have interacted with (LCN mafia included), and an I have dealt with a lot of them, have been sociopaths. What law can you pass to make them quit being sociopaths? Maybe you can move them around, as far as what crimes they commit, but unless you repeal all criminal laws, they are still going to be committing crimes.
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Old 03-01-2013, 07:59   #136
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Almost all of the career criminals I have interacted with (LCN mafia included), and an I have dealt with a lot of them, have been sociopaths. What law can you pass to make them quit being sociopaths? Maybe you can move them around, as far as what crimes they commit, but unless you repeal all criminal laws, they are still going to be committing crimes.
Sociopath does not automatically equal crime does it? The world needs sociopaths.
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Old 03-01-2013, 10:06   #137
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[QUOTE=LAWDOGKMS;20040553]You were no cop if you're now using the term "JBT"..[/QUOTE

It's a good thing you are in law enforcement, your deductive reasoning is so flawed as to make being a criminal in your jurisdiction a lucrative and low risk endeavor.
I use the term because I am quite familiar with the exact type of officer that lives to exert his power over others.
They have no respect for themselves so they use their office and authority to attempt to extract it from others.
The fact that so many of these losers exist on various police forces and the good cops don't flip on them but instead close ranks on any external accusation of wrongdoings is, in my view, an indictment against the profession.
I see little evidence to the contrary, although I acknowledge there are exceptions.
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Old 03-01-2013, 10:18   #138
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Yes.

If prohibition was successful, our society would be better for it.
The flaw being, of course, that prohibition can't be successful.

That is, unless you consider a society like Saudi Arabia's better than ours.
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Old 03-01-2013, 10:50   #139
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The problem is predominantly one of young, inner city minorities shooting one another. This is the result of 100 years of liberal Progressive welfare policies that have destroyed the family unit.

It is hard to commit street corner violence at 1am when you've been working all day and have to be at work at 7am the next morning.
I can't understand why this is such a difficult concept for people to understand. Excellent point!


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Old 03-01-2013, 13:04   #140
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Almost all of the career criminals I have interacted with (LCN mafia included), and an I have dealt with a lot of them, have been sociopaths. What law can you pass to make them quit being sociopaths? Maybe you can move them around, as far as what crimes they commit, but unless you repeal all criminal laws, they are still going to be committing crimes.
You can't stop people form being sociopaths but you can repeal laws that make it easy for them to get rich and powerful.
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