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Old 03-05-2013, 10:32   #1
Tom D
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Loading up some HS-6

Ive had really good results with W231 with only a half pound left I decided to stock up. With that said....

I opted for some HS-6 which was available. From what I gather folks shooting HS-6 (9mm) have had good things to say about it. With the 231 I was getting the best groups with 3.4 grs (133gr lrn) at 25 yds consistently under 2".

I was looking at the burn rate chart and was surprised to see such a spread between the two, HS-6 being significantly slower.

Im going to start at 5.2 grains and clock them. I was avg'ing 970fps with the W231.

A nice summer like day yesterday in the 50's sunny a great day to make holes its pouring rain today and when the front passes it suppose to get cold and snow.
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I know my hens are good Republicans, they cackle after they lay their egg. I do have a young pullet that leans a little left. I can tell because of her cackling before she lays her egg.

That will change after a good "roostering".
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Old 03-05-2013, 10:44   #2
Colorado4Wheel
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HS6 is nothing like 231. More for full power style loads. I would work it up to about 75% and see how it does. Don't be tempted to try and run it really light.
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Old 03-05-2013, 11:05   #3
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TOM D,

I like HS6, I have used this powder in several caliber tests but I really like this powder in 9mm. Here is some data from Federal factory rounds and my load data using HS6 for a good target round;

Federal "American Eagle" Factory Ammunition
124g RN FMJ
Velocity - Box listed @ 1,150 fps /1,044.6 fps my 6 shot average @ 73 degrees
OAL - 1.150"

My Reload data;
Casing - Federal - used/cleaned
Case length - .754" (standard)
Primer - Federal - Small Pistol Primers #100
Bullet - 124g RN FMJ .355" dia. (Precision Delta)
Bullet length - .606 "
Powder - Hodgdon HS6 @ 6.5g (best overall charge tested)
Powder range - 6.0g up to 6.7g (Speer)
Burn rate - #42 (Hodgdon)
Bullet seating OAL - 1.135"
Velocity - 1,121.4 fps my 6 shot average @ 73 degrees
Crimp - Light
Test Gun - Glock 17 w/4.49" Barrel

This powder/charge all test rounds fired perfectly, with a very nice (medium) firing or "kick" and reacquiring my target was suprising fast shot after shot. I tested these at 7, 15 and 25 yards from both a seated gun rest and standing free hand positions. I achieved nice consistent (some even tight) groupings.

All in all this test for me proved to be a keeper in terms of a good target round of ammo.

Be safe out there.
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Last edited by Kentguy; 03-05-2013 at 11:07..
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Old 03-05-2013, 13:34   #4
Tom D
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That's some really appreciated feedback.

I just powdered some cases on the lower end (5.1gr) haven't seated the bullet yet and plan to trickle to about the middle (5.4gr) for the 133 gr LRN ( Lyman).

The estimated pressure range 28,100 @5.1gr and 31,000 at 5.6gr

This is for 130gr and my bullet is at 133.4gr. The estimated vel at 5.1gr is 997fps

Im getting right on poi at 970 and a little high as the vel goes up.

Im anxious to see how this goes. I'll be so glad when summer get here. Right now Im shooting at around 50 degrees and 80's and 90's is more typical.

Again the feedback is appreciated
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I know my hens are good Republicans, they cackle after they lay their egg. I do have a young pullet that leans a little left. I can tell because of her cackling before she lays her egg.

That will change after a good "roostering".
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Old 03-05-2013, 13:48   #5
Colorado4Wheel
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When I am shooting a "odd weight" lead bullet I go through this process.

If data is for a 130 gr lead bullet and I have a 134 gr lead bullet I do the following.

130 gr data at 997fps is 129.6 PF (130X997=129610)

So my 134 gr bullet should be going 967 fps to get the same PF (129,610 divided by 134). Pressure will be similar because I didn't change the weight of the bullet by much and I did reduce the charge to get the lower FPS.

YMMV etc etc.

The other way to look at it is this. IF the powder is capable of making PF easily with a similar weight bullet then just work it up to your decided PF and don't worry about the load data to much if you see it falling into the book parameters. Just be sure to load to at least to the min OAL of your data and you will be fine. Assuming of course the data easily supports the PF you are aiming to reach. Solo 1000 is a good example. The load data shows that with my bullet weight it's capable of making 135 PF with similar weight bullet as I cast and a shorter barrel. So I just load as long as my barrel allows and work it up to 132 PF. Lot variations don't matter. Add a little more powder till you get the same PF and your done. Same basic pressure from the same powder. Just a small difference in charge weight. I ran this by the manufacture and they gave me the blessing to do just that with Solo 1000.
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Old 03-05-2013, 15:00   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Colorado4Wheel View Post
When I am shooting a "odd weight" lead bullet I go through this process.

If data is for a 130 gr lead bullet and I have a 134 gr lead bullet I do the following.

130 gr data at 997fps is 129.6 PF (130X997=129610)

So my 134 gr bullet should be going 967 fps to get the same PF (129,610 divided by 134). Pressure will be similar because I didn't change the weight of the bullet by much and I did reduce the charge to get the lower FPS.

YMMV etc etc.

The other way to look at it is this. IF the powder is capable of making PF easily with a similar weight bullet then just work it up to your decided PF and don't worry about the load data to much if you see it falling into the book parameters. Just be sure to load to at least to the min OAL of your data and you will be fine. Assuming of course the data easily supports the PF you are aiming to reach. Solo 1000 is a good example. The load data shows that with my bullet weight it's capable of making 135 PF with similar weight bullet as I cast and a shorter barrel. So I just load as long as my barrel allows and work it up to 132 PF. Lot variations don't matter. Add a little more powder till you get the same PF and your done. Same basic pressure from the same powder. Just a small difference in charge weight. I ran this by the manufacture and they gave me the blessing to do just that with Solo 1000.
So Colorado that's a powerful bit of information ive printed it out to add to my reloading notes and will probably wear it out.

So I figure my 133.4gr bullet should run at 972fps (actually 971.5fps) to hit the 129.61PF. Rather than trickle my loads up to 5.4gr I will leave them at 5.1gr and see what they do.
I'm thinking that would be safe and I could use the maximum PF of 137.8 (1060x130) as a guide for the upper end or 1033fps for my 133.4 bullet and adjust the powder weight accordingly.

Am I thinking right?

Good Stuff!
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I know my hens are good Republicans, they cackle after they lay their egg. I do have a young pullet that leans a little left. I can tell because of her cackling before she lays her egg.

That will change after a good "roostering".

Last edited by Tom D; 03-05-2013 at 15:02..
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Old 03-05-2013, 15:16   #7
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Colorado4Wheel... "The other way to look at it is this. IF the powder is capable of making PF easily with a similar weight bullet then just work it up to your decided PF and don't worry about the load data to much if you see it falling into the book parameters..."

I have done something very similar to your procedure only I was using Alliant Power Pistol powder with a certain load I was trying to develop.

Normally, for me anyway I am not trying to reach a certain PF in my target loads but I am mindful of that number as I work up my loads.

Thanks for the procedure tip.
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Old 03-05-2013, 15:42   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom D View Post
So Colorado that's a powerful bit of information ive printed it out to add to my reloading notes and will probably wear it out.

So I figure my 133.4gr bullet should run at 972fps (actually 971.5fps) to hit the 129.61PF. Rather than trickle my loads up to 5.4gr I will leave them at 5.1gr and see what they do.
I'm thinking that would be safe and I could use the maximum PF of 137.8 (1060x130) as a guide for the upper end or 1033fps for my 133.4 bullet and adjust the powder weight accordingly.

Am I thinking right?

Good Stuff!

Once you chrono it and get close you can do some more math.

Lets say you get 950fps at 5.2 grs and you want 980 fps .

Divide 950 by 5.2 =182.6
Divide 980 by 182 .6 = 5.36 grs

Most powders are linear in the good part of their pressure curve. This only works in a smaller window of the powders curve. But it's helpful none the less.

I do the same math on the loads I am working up. When I see the powder become non-linear I know I am in a part of the pressure curve I don't want to be in.
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Old 03-05-2013, 16:47   #9
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I've added that to my notes and I now feel like I have something that finally gets me beyond the guess work.

Having something to measure against, something logical, sure makes a difference.

I feel much better knowing where I'm at and how I got there.

Thanks
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I know my hens are good Republicans, they cackle after they lay their egg. I do have a young pullet that leans a little left. I can tell because of her cackling before she lays her egg.

That will change after a good "roostering".
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Old 03-05-2013, 18:01   #10
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You might have issues with unburnt powder at lower charge weights. In an auto, it just means a little time with a toothbrush. I loaded some 357Mag rounds with HS7 at the listed max. The loads chrono'd way below what the data said, and I had so much unburnt powder that it would get under the extractor and tie the revolver up.

I would only load a small batch of them first to see how they do since slower ball powders can be a little messy at the low end and HS6 is a ball powder.
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Old 03-05-2013, 18:15   #11
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You might have issues with unburnt powder at lower charge weights. In an auto, it just means a little time with a toothbrush. I loaded some 357Mag rounds with HS7 at the listed max. The loads chrono'd way below what the data said, and I had so much unburnt powder that it would get under the extractor and tie the revolver up.

I would only load a small batch of them first to see how they do since slower ball powders can be a little messy at the low end and HS6 is a ball powder.
I always load 10 at a time until I have had 3 reload sessions that measure up to where I hope to get.

I just read an interesting thing about burn rates that recommended using mag primers when using ball powder assuming HS-7 is. Im not going there (yet and don't see it happening) Ive deleted the reference but it was at the top of a burn rate chart that was describing the difference in extruded, ball and flake and indicated that because ball is harder to ignite the mag primer was suggested.

If I had that much unburned powder to jam my revolver Id sure be using something else. Just me. I'll watch for any signs of that. I know with the 231 I had no unburn going on. Ill be watching. thanks for that. 231 burns much faster than HS-6 according to the charts.
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I know my hens are good Republicans, they cackle after they lay their egg. I do have a young pullet that leans a little left. I can tell because of her cackling before she lays her egg.

That will change after a good "roostering".
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Old 03-05-2013, 18:26   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom D View Post
I always load 10 at a time until I have had 3 reload sessions that measure up to where I hope to get.

I just read an interesting thing about burn rates that recommended using mag primers when using ball powder assuming HS-7 is. Im not going there (yet and don't see it happening) Ive deleted the reference but it was at the top of a burn rate chart that was describing the difference in extruded, ball and flake and indicated that because ball is harder to ignite the mag primer was suggested.

If I had that much unburned powder to jam my revolver Id sure be using something else. Just me. I'll watch for any signs of that. I know with the 231 I had no unburn going on. Ill be watching. thanks for that. 231 burns much faster than HS-6 according to the charts.
I came into a partial bottle of it from a reliable source, so I just loaded up a bunch of 357 with it as "fuel". I figured it would "work" since it was a max load being used in a Ruger, so I didn't fiddle around with loads. It did "work", but I had to brush under the extractor every couple of cylinders.

They stopped making it and I wouldn't have bought more, that's for sure. I think what it really needed was a heavier charge more than anything, but I wasn't going to exceed the manufacturer's data.

As for mag primers, normally I would go with what the data lists. In these days of limited primer availability, sometimes things have to be worked around, but generally, HS6 data doesn't show mag primers, so I wouldn't use them unless I had to.

Slower ball powders are a different story. They often do better with, and show data listing, mag primers.
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Old 03-05-2013, 19:22   #13
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Makes sense. Was the HS-7 a ball powder?

I wouldn't try anything like a mag primer without some research and a lot of question asking first.

Especially since availability being what it is. When I bought my HS-6 yesterday I picked up a 1000 cci 500's and the dealer was down to his last 5000. I'd bought them all but a 1000 last me a long time and my wife was with me.
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I know my hens are good Republicans, they cackle after they lay their egg. I do have a young pullet that leans a little left. I can tell because of her cackling before she lays her egg.

That will change after a good "roostering".
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Old 03-05-2013, 19:31   #14
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Yes, HS7 was a ball powder. Overall, I think HS6, and probably HS7, are good powders for their intended use. At lower velocities, they are marginal. A 130 grain bullet at 990fps or so is probably close to the bottom of the useful range of HS6. This just an educated guess since I haven't used HS6. I just didn't want you to load a bunch of ammo up and possibly being stuck with a load that is a waste of components and time.

You are either experienced, or smart enough, to already know that.
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Old 03-05-2013, 21:14   #15
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I would definitely like to run closer to 1060.
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I know my hens are good Republicans, they cackle after they lay their egg. I do have a young pullet that leans a little left. I can tell because of her cackling before she lays her egg.

That will change after a good "roostering".

Last edited by Tom D; 03-06-2013 at 10:20..
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Old 03-06-2013, 14:03   #16
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I shot the 10 today and the results were interesting. The group was not what I dream of when counting sheep fails to put me to sleep, 2 1/8" at 15yds but it gives me something to work with.

The published data for the 130gr was a Est Vel of 997 fps with 5.1gr's PF 129.6 and Est vel of 1060 PF 137.8 with 5.6gr's. of HS-6.

The actual velocity using a 133.4gr bullet of 5.1gr HS-6 is 997.48 chrono'ed PF 133.0

So Im thinking maybe I want to shoot at the upper end at the published velocity of 1060 PF137.8

So 997.48 / 5.1 = 195.58
then 1060 / 195.58 = 5.41 gr's.

When looking at the pressures published vs actual is there a calculation that one can do for comparison purposes before shooting a new load?

The published cup for the 130 using 5.1 is 28300 (997) vel and 31000 for 5.6 grains (1060 vel).


So the plan was to shoot 5.4gr's. which should have put me at 1060.

Im using a Lee Disc Powder measure and the .4 disc tossed out 5.6 so rather than go with the plan I shot it.

The group showed improvement about an 1" better around 1.125" at 15yds

Vel came in at 1084fps PF 144.61

Doing the calculations if I want to hit a 1060fps it works out 5.4grs. I really want to split the middle of the high and low which is 1040 or 5.37gr's. If the weather holds I'll shoot that tomorrow. Temps have been in the 50's yesterday and mid 30's today.

these calculations have been fun.....thanks
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I know my hens are good Republicans, they cackle after they lay their egg. I do have a young pullet that leans a little left. I can tell because of her cackling before she lays her egg.

That will change after a good "roostering".

Last edited by Tom D; 03-06-2013 at 19:09..
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