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Old 02-21-2013, 13:46   #51
Gallium
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Originally Posted by SleeperSS View Post
Wouldn't want to take financial/investment advice from someone who leveraged himself to millionaire status and went bankrupt by age 28...hasn't borrowed a dime since and is a multi-multi millionaire. We followed his advice and paid off ll of our c/c and other debts. Only debt left is our house and that will be paid off in a couple of years. I wish I had heard of him 20 years ago.

The important question is why did you need Dave Ramsey to tell you any of that stuff. Did you migrate to the USA?

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Old 02-21-2013, 13:47   #52
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Originally Posted by Glocksanity View Post
Exactly.

And you can only have so many preps. If you need to save wealth in excess of what you have in preps, gold is the best vehicle. Has been for about...oh, 5,000 years.

Which were more vulnerable in WW2 in the hands of Jews or other minorities in Germany - gold, or numbered Swiss accounts?

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Old 02-21-2013, 13:49   #53
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I didn't read the thread, but the answer is simple. Rush Limbaugh, Hannity and Glenn Beck told them it is.

Rather than think logically or look at the history of it they simply do as they're told.
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Old 02-21-2013, 13:59   #54
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Originally Posted by Gallium View Post
The important question is why did you need Dave Ramsey to tell you any of that stuff. Did you migrate to the USA?

- G
Why would you assume I'm an immigrant...legal or otherwise?
How many people do you know that are debt free, with the exception of their house? Are you living under a rock or in a cave? People make mistakes, although they may not look like mistakes at the time. The last couple of generations have been brainwashed into thinking that they need a high FICO score to live. The amount of c/c, student loans, personal loans, and car notes has exploded to the point that it's a crisis. the point is, I was shown the error of my ways and turned my financial life around. If more people didn't buy things they can't afford, with money they don't have, to impress people they don't know, a lot of this country's problems would e solved.



BTW...born and raised in the USA....how about you?
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Old 02-21-2013, 14:07   #55
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Basically, the US Dollar will cease to be the world's reserve currency. Gold will replace it. And in order for gold to do that, it will have to be repriced to about $50K per ounce.
You've said this before. It's just as stupid now as it was the last time. It's logically inconsistent--real commodities can't be arbitrarily "repriced."
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Old 02-21-2013, 14:11   #56
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Why would you assume I'm an immigrant...legal or otherwise?
I did not assume you were an immigrant. I asked the question, because I know in many other countries access to sound financial knowledge can be a challenge.

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How many people do you know that are debt free, with the exception of their house? Are you living under a rock or in a cave?
Not sure why you think an insult is the appropriate retort. I asked a question.
Most of the people I know are either conservative or wealthy liberals. I know A LOT OF chicken-heads in the projects that don't have a pot to piss in, but have a steady revenue stream in the form of government money (our money, actually).

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Originally Posted by SleeperSS View Post
People make mistakes, although they may not look like mistakes at the time. The last couple of generations have been brainwashed into thinking that they need a high FICO score to live. The amount of c/c, student loans, personal loans, and car notes has exploded to the point that it's a crisis. the point is, I was shown the error of my ways and turned my financial life around. If more people didn't buy things they can't afford, with money they don't have, to impress people they don't know, a lot of this country's problems would e solved.



BTW...born and raised in the USA....how about you?
I migrated here. Everyone in my house is a USA citizen (most of them were born here). Everyone in my immediate family is a citizen. All of the people in my immediate family (deceased sis, mom, bro, BIL, MIL) have no debt except for mortgages (if that) and student loans/expenses for offspring.

I come from a world where "credit" did not exist except for "hire-purchase" when I was a kid. We are a very credit-averse set of folks. Credit cards are great to have, as you said, I got over them about 10 months after having my 1st.

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Old 02-21-2013, 14:16   #57
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It is not an "investment" it is a good place to "park" money, it is a great hedge against inflation. It is secure and stable.

Why Gold?: Gold is real, and it has intrinsic value.

What is my stock portfolio worth? It is magic money; theoretical money it is all on paper... It could be gone or worthless tomorrow.

Gold is gold, it will always be a valuable commodity.
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Old 02-21-2013, 14:19   #58
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I don't like Dave Ramsey. I'll say that up front. My main problem with him is his injection of his religious beliefs into a "financial show"

Correct me if I'm wrong, but Dave Ramsey's basic premise is live within your means, don't accrue debt you cannot afford, don't buy things you cannot afford to pay for. I don't get people who need to listen to him say this day after day. If you need someone to tell you how to be a responsible with your money all the time that is a problem I think.

I didn't even realize Dave gave much investing advise, but then again I stopped listening after about the first couple "episodes".

On the point of Gold as an investment, I think like anything, all investments have risks and are subject to losses as well as gains. I think you have to look at gold for what it is, a speculative play. If you know and understand investments and risk you can utilize gold in your portfolio. Like a lot of things understanding markets and diversity is key. I wouldn't put all my eggs in one basket.
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Old 02-21-2013, 14:27   #59
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You've said this before. It's just as stupid now as it was the last time. It's logically inconsistent--real commodities can't be arbitrarily "repriced."
Tell that to FDR who repriced gold in a day.

And Nixon who went off the gold standard with a stroke of the pen.

Read your history!!
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Old 02-21-2013, 14:29   #60
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Which were more vulnerable in WW2 in the hands of Jews or other minorities in Germany - gold, or numbered Swiss accounts?
So when a jew had to bribe a guard did he give his Swiss bank account number and swift code to transfer money to get out of Berlin or did he give him a gold coin to get out?

And banks never confiscate money right? Ever see the FDIC limit? Ha ha ha.
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Old 02-21-2013, 14:30   #61
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I agree with Dave Ramsey. I read his books which is why I am almost debt free. (soon to have no mortgage no car payments no credit card payments etc etc)

I sold my gold and silver. It was just diversification, a hedge and a hobby. I only invested as much as I was comfortable loosing. Yes you can loose by buying gold...especially now.

I would much rather invest in blued steel,wood, polymer, brass and lead. Guns hold their value pretty dang well. And unlike precious metals you can also defend yourself with guns, put food on the table and have fun at the range.

My AR's and AK's are doing quite well as an investment right now, even though I dont plan on ever selling them. Heck my $89 Hex receiver Mosin Nagant has even appreciated in price a bit more than double.

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Old 02-21-2013, 14:42   #62
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Tell that to FDR who repriced gold in a day.

And Nixon who went off the gold standard with a stroke of the pen.
There's a difference between "repricing" and enforcing a peg. Neither act arbitrarily repriced gold, they simply allowed the value of gold to float instead of fixing the US dollar value in terms of gold.

At any rate, your argument is that "paper money" has no value, so the "price" of gold in paper money is arbitrary.

If ~10 ounces of gold buys a small car today, and they "reprice" gold tomorrow... 10 ounces of gold will still buy that same car. "Repricing" is meaningless.

You're talking out of both sides of your mouth--either the US dollar's value matters, in which case it can't be arbitrarily repriced, or it does not, in which case repricing would be pointless.
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Old 02-21-2013, 14:42   #63
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1980

Took until 2008 to reach those prices again.
The Fed trounced gold back in the early Ď80ís by increasing the prime rate to around 19%.

It was the right thing to do as it protected the dollar and cooled the inflation.

Trouble is today with a $250 Billion per year debt service at near 0%, the FEDGOV has painted itself into a corner.

They cannot raise rates otherwise it will add $1 Trillion more per year in debt service to the already busted budget.
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Old 02-21-2013, 14:46   #64
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Originally Posted by SleeperSS View Post
Wouldn't want to take financial/investment advice from someone who leveraged himself to millionaire status and went bankrupt by age 28...hasn't borrowed a dime since and is a multi-multi millionaire. We followed his advice and paid off ll of our c/c and other debts. Only debt left is our house and that will be paid off in a couple of years. I wish I had heard of him 20 years ago.
Dave Ramsey and I are about the same age and education level and we both started investing in real estate at about the same time.

In 1986 there were some tax changes so the banks called his loans and he went bankrupt.

They didnít call my loans.
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Old 02-21-2013, 14:46   #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SleeperSS View Post
Wouldn't want to take financial/investment advice from someone who leveraged himself to millionaire status and went bankrupt by age 28...hasn't borrowed a dime since and is a multi-multi millionaire. We followed his advice and paid off ll of our c/c and other debts. Only debt left is our house and that will be paid off in a couple of years. I wish I had heard of him 20 years ago.
There is a difference between teaching someone to live within their means and investing.

Dave's advice was great in 1992. It's 2013. Buy and hold the whole market while keeping expenses low worked yesterday.

Dave isn't generally talking to the sharpest tools in the shed. Most of his crowd IS better off following his investment advice. That doesn't mean it's the best advice.


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Old 02-21-2013, 14:49   #66
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Wouldn't want to take financial/investment advice from someone who leveraged himself to millionaire status
Dave Ramsey doesn't give "investment advice."

He gives advice to people who lack the discipline to make smart decisions with their own finances.

That's fine, and it's a valuable service. There have been times when I have done stupid things, and would have been better off following his advice.

On the other hand, his advice is demonstrably, mathematically not the best way to save money (stuff like "pay off the smallest debt first").

He gives advice on how to live within your means, not how to invest wisely.
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Old 02-21-2013, 14:59   #67
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Originally Posted by devildog2067 View Post
Dave Ramsey doesn't give "investment advice."

He gives advice to people who lack the discipline to make smart decisions with their own finances.

That's fine, and it's a valuable service. There have been times when I have done stupid things, and would have been better off following his advice.

On the other hand, his advice is demonstrably, mathematically not the best way to save money (stuff like "pay off the smallest debt first").

He gives advice on how to live within your means, not how to invest wisely.
I actually agree with the smallest debt thing. It's about rapidly changing cash flow and liquidating debt quickly. But that isn't investment advice.




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Old 02-21-2013, 15:02   #68
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I actually agree with the smallest debt thing. It's about rapidly changing cash flow and liquidating debt quickly. But that isn't investment advice.




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Was thinking the same thing - it builds momentum and helps you get motivated. Sometimes the best mathematical solution isn't the best solution when you figure in human psychology.
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Old 02-21-2013, 15:04   #69
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Was thinking the same thing - it builds momentum and helps you get motivated. Sometimes the best mathematical solution isn't the best solution when you figure in human psychology.
Which is basically what I said in the first place. Dave Ramsey's advice has value, but you need to understand what it is. It's not investment advice.
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Old 02-21-2013, 15:08   #70
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There's a difference between "repricing" and enforcing a peg. Neither act arbitrarily repriced gold, they simply allowed the value of gold to float instead of fixing the US dollar value in terms of gold.

At any rate, your argument is that "paper money" has no value, so the "price" of gold in paper money is arbitrary.

If ~10 ounces of gold buys a small car today, and they "reprice" gold tomorrow... 10 ounces of gold will still buy that same car. "Repricing" is meaningless.

You're talking out of both sides of your mouth--either the US dollar's value matters, in which case it can't be arbitrarily repriced, or it does not, in which case repricing would be pointless.
I'm not trying to argue with you here, but I just want to point out a few facts for everyone's benefit and thought.

*In 1933 the government basically rounded up all privately owned gold at a price of $20.67 (which they set).

*In 1934, about a year later, the Government decided gold was now worth $35. Simple math (20.67/35) shows this devalued the dollar about 41% overnight, and increased gold by 70%, which the government had conveniently confiscated from private ownership the previous year.

*Gold "certificates" were permitted to be owned privately in 1964, though you could not redeem them for gold

*In 1971 the government decided gold was now worth $38 instead of $35, again devaluing the dollar.

*in 1972 the price went from $38 to $42.22.

*Private ownership of gold was permitted again in 1974 and gold essential becomes a commodity and the price is set by the market


Anyone feel free to correct that information.
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Old 02-21-2013, 15:09   #71
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The only people making money with gold are the brokers selling it to investor's to get paid the commissions. And that's the only people.
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Old 02-21-2013, 15:10   #72
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I didn't read the thread, but the answer is simple. Rush Limbaugh, Hannity and Glenn Beck told them it is.

Rather than think logically or look at the history of it they simply do as they're told.
Everything has its day.
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Old 02-21-2013, 15:10   #73
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The only people making money with gold are the brokers selling it to investor's to get paid the commissions. And that's the only people.
How many gold doubles did you miss out on?
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Old 02-21-2013, 15:11   #74
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Originally Posted by devildog2067 View Post
Dave Ramsey doesn't give "investment advice."

He gives advice to people who lack the discipline to make smart decisions with their own finances.

That's fine, and it's a valuable service. There have been times when I have done stupid things, and would have been better off following his advice.

On the other hand, his advice is demonstrably, mathematically not the best way to save money (stuff like "pay off the smallest debt first").

He gives advice on how to live within your means, not how to invest wisely.
I absolutely agree.
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Old 02-21-2013, 15:16   #75
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Originally Posted by devildog2067 View Post
There's a difference between "repricing" and enforcing a peg. Neither act arbitrarily repriced gold, they simply allowed the value of gold to float instead of fixing the US dollar value in terms of gold.

At any rate, your argument is that "paper money" has no value, so the "price" of gold in paper money is arbitrary.

If ~10 ounces of gold buys a small car today, and they "reprice" gold tomorrow... 10 ounces of gold will still buy that same car. "Repricing" is meaningless.

You're talking out of both sides of your mouth--either the US dollar's value matters, in which case it can't be arbitrarily repriced, or it does not, in which case repricing would be pointless.
You could not be more wrong.

FDR totally repriced gold overnight from $20.67 to $35 and those that had turned in their gold lost money.

Nixon unpegged gold for international settlements allowing it to float and then the OPEC nations all agreed to sell oil in US Dollars thus creating the US Dollar as the world's reserve currency for all international settlements instead of gold.

If you think that gold cannot return as the medium of international settlements, then you are naive or don't understand how money really works.

As for repricing, you are wrong. If ten ounces buys a car today and it is repriced upwards by a factor of ten, then boom! Your purchasing power just increased tenfold. That is difficult for most to get their heads around, but that is what is coming. It is the only way to save the system from total collapse.
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