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Old 03-09-2013, 06:51   #1
tacmc6
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bullet setback

Does inserting and removing loaded mags, especially .40 cause bullet setback? I am not talking about chambering, just the mags. I understood it was the constant chambering of the same round that possibly caused setback. Thanks.
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Old 03-09-2013, 07:01   #2
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Originally Posted by tacmc6 View Post
Does inserting and removing loaded mags, especially .40 cause bullet setback? I am not talking about chambering, just the mags. I understood it was the constant chambering of the same round that possibly caused setback. Thanks.
Cambering is the major issue.
Not mag insertion and removal.
The slide force cambering the round is what causes most of the problem.

If you have to re-chamber?
Use different rounds.
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Old 03-09-2013, 11:07   #3
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During mag insertion, bullets aren't affected in any way.

It's getting slammed out of the mag, into the feed ramp (at a slight angle), and up into the chamber that causes setback.
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Old 03-09-2013, 11:47   #4
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You can also hand-load the round into the chamber and then hop the extractor.

Let the slide down Gently on the round, grab the face of the extractor w/ your thumb-nail, pull the extractor out a little bit, and it will jump the case-head and snap into place.

Sometimes, a Little push on the back of the slide is needed to get it over the hump.

The same round can be loaded and unloaded indefinitely w/o fear of set-back.

I load both my G23 and G36 this way. The G23 I keep down-loaded w/ 12, the G36 gets topped off w/ 6.




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Old 03-09-2013, 12:22   #5
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Originally Posted by Glock 23 Nutter View Post
You can also hand-load the round into the chamber and then hop the extractor.

Let the slide down Gently on the round, grab the face of the extractor w/ your thumb-nail, pull the extractor out a little bit, and it will jump the case-head and snap into place.

Sometimes, a Little push on the back of the slide is needed to get it over the hump.

The same round can be loaded and unloaded indefinitely w/o fear of set-back.

I load both my G23 and G36 this way. The G23 I keep down-loaded w/ 12, the G36 gets topped off w/ 6.




Nutter
I don't Recommend anybody doing this with their Glocks.
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Old 03-09-2013, 12:26   #6
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For self defense rounds, make sure to buy cartridges that have a cannelure. Less likely to get set back on multiple chamberings. That's why they put them on "Premium" rounds.

Just inserting and removing mags doesn't hurt. As said, it is the repeated chambering.
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Last edited by ipscshooter; 03-10-2013 at 11:03.. Reason: Add chambering comment to actually answer OP.
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Old 03-09-2013, 17:17   #7
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Originally Posted by tonyparson View Post
I don't Recommend anybody doing this with their Glocks.
OK.

And...?




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Old 03-09-2013, 17:26   #8
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OK.

And...?




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There not designed to do that. You might do it 100 times and nothing go wrong or you could do it once and it messes your extractor up. It's your Glock treat how you see fit.
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Old 03-09-2013, 17:29   #9
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+1, when you chamber the rounds over and over it can cause bullet setback. Inserting a mag will have no ill effects. I have had some 45acp rounds that just looked like heck because I had chambered them so many times for some reason or another, it will raise pressure in the case and provide better circumstances for a case rupture to occur...but then again, I'm a cheap son of a gun and won't waste a round unless it's utterly useless and I have never had one ruptureon me...yet.
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Old 03-09-2013, 17:45   #10
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There not designed to do that. You might do it 100 times and nothing go wrong or you could do it once and it messes your extractor up. It's your Glock treat how you see fit.
Thank You. (I was sure it was FUD)

The extractor is hardened Steel, designed to move in and out against the spring.

The extractor claw length (depth) is only a fraction of the motion range of the extractor itself.

The only Forces applied to the extractor are that of your finger to move the extractor claw out, and that of the unloaded recoil spring barely holding the extractor claw against the case.

It is not forced over, it is hopped over.




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Old 03-10-2013, 17:18   #11
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Inserting mags over and over does nothing to rounds. Also, I thought Mas got a question about round chambering a while back but couldnt find it. Said factory rounds today are crimped better than in the past so re-chambering the same round isn't as much of an issue as it had been.
Quote:
Originally Posted by tacmc6 View Post
Does inserting and removing loaded mags, especially .40 cause bullet setback? I am not talking about chambering, just the mags. I understood it was the constant chambering of the same round that possibly caused setback. Thanks.
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Old 03-10-2013, 17:22   #12
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Originally Posted by joeshdog View Post
Inserting mags over and over does nothing to rounds. Also, I thought Mas got a question about round chambering a while back but couldnt find it. Said factory rounds today are crimped better than in the past so re-chambering the same round isn't as much of an issue as it had been.
For some reason, even with quality ammo, I have found 357 Sig
to be particularly susceptible to bullet set back.

It's my 357 Sig guns, of which I have four,
that seem to require special attention.

Last edited by barth; 03-10-2013 at 17:23..
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Old 03-10-2013, 18:27   #13
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Originally Posted by Glock 23 Nutter View Post
Thank You. (I was sure it was FUD)

The extractor is hardened Steel, designed to move in and out against the spring.

The extractor claw length (depth) is only a fraction of the motion range of the extractor itself.

The only Forces applied to the extractor are that of your finger to move the extractor claw out, and that of the unloaded recoil spring barely holding the extractor claw against the case.

It is not forced over, it is hopped over.

It's pretty common knowledge that you don't want to hand insert a round in the chamber and then drop the slide as you can/will chip that extractor.

I wouldn't give that advice to anybody.
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Old 03-10-2013, 18:35   #14
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It's pretty common knowledge that you don't want to hand insert a round in the chamber and then drop the slide as you can/will chip that extractor.

I wouldn't give that advice to anybody.
I agree. Even dropping water will eventually make a hole in a rock and a rock is a lot harder then water.
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Old 03-10-2013, 18:52   #15
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Originally Posted by Glock 23 Nutter View Post
OK.

And...?




Nutter
A new extractor is a relatively cheap part. If you would rather disregard good advice and damage yours, suggest have a couple replacements handy.

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Old 03-11-2013, 08:10   #16
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Old 03-11-2013, 08:20   #17
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It's pretty common knowledge that you don't want to hand insert a round in the chamber and then drop the slide as you can/will chip that extractor.

I wouldn't give that advice to anybody.
Though I don't agree with his method either, he never said he lets the slide slam home. He specifies that he manually pulls the extractor out to let it ease over the rim. He probably won't break his gun this way.

If you chamber each round in the mag once, plus the one in the pipe, you can shoot those rounds at the range as target ammo. That helps keep fresh ammo in the gun, minimize the risks of setback, and let you practice with some carry ammo. Just a thought. I hope that made sense.
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Old 03-11-2013, 09:45   #18
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it's very easy to just keep a pattern in your SD ammo box and go through a chambering of each round a few times before finally just popping them off one day

i dont chamber/unchamber everyday, so that method will last for a long time
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Old 03-11-2013, 10:57   #19
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Originally Posted by Glock 23 Nutter View Post

The extractor is hardened Steel, designed to move in and out against the spring.
Nutter
Glock extractors have been made from MIM the last few years.

No more hardened steel.
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Old 03-11-2013, 11:11   #20
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Glock extractors have been made from MIM the last few years.

No more hardened steel.
What is MIM?
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Old 03-11-2013, 11:17   #21
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What is MIM?

Metal Injection Molding, it's a cheaper way of manufacturing gun parts.
It's been around quite a few years. Colt used it on their extractors but
went back to steel after problems. Used for hammers
and other small parts. It doesn't require finish machining or fitting so it saves the manufacturers money. Glock used to use machined steel.
Here's a websight all about it.


http://www.chuckhawks.com/metal_injection_molding.htm
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Last edited by clarkz71; 03-11-2013 at 11:21..
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Old 03-11-2013, 11:37   #22
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Chambering and re-chambering the same round can damage the primer in the bullet. There was a notice from the Gwinnett County Police Department (Georgia) that had an officer do that every day when arriving at home and then re-chambering the same round in the morning going to work. One day he had to draw and fire the gun and it went click. An examination of the bullet saw that the primer had been fractured into many small pieces that went thru the flash hole and into the powder. Nothing left to fire the bullet. I chamber rounds one time. If I unchamber that round, it goes into a box of like bullets and those are shot once a year. There are only about 3-4 bullets ever in the box as my guns stay loaded all the time.
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Old 03-11-2013, 11:37   #23
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Though I don't agree with his method either, he never said he lets the slide slam home. He specifies that he manually pulls the extractor out to let it ease over the rim. He probably won't break his gun this way...
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Glock 23 Nutter View Post
You can also hand-load the round into the chamber and then hop the extractor.

Let the slide down Gently on the round, grab the face of the extractor w/ your thumb-nail, pull the extractor out a little bit, and it will jump the case-head and snap into place...
No stress or damage to the extractor - no need to track/organize/rotate/manage chambered rounds.


When I load a round from the mag? I shoot it - Simple.

(if not, it goes in the range mag for the next trip.)


If you dry-fire a lot (as I do), and also leave your Glock Condition-0 (as I do) - this is a very simple and useful technique for chamber loading/unloading your Glock w/ No Chance of Inducing Bullet Setback. (a reasonable concern, especially for poly-framed pistols and .40/180 gr. ammo - Ka-Boom!)




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Old 03-11-2013, 12:11   #24
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I load both my G23 and G36 this way
Anal retentive much? wow........

I think the internets blow up bullet setback. I don't think it's as much of a problem as the internet leads to believe. I tested my own ammo in my own guns & found little to no difference after many chamberings on many SD loads in many calibers.
My SD gun stays loaded as well so I don't unchamber much but I will re-chamber 4 times & then the 5th it goes into the range pile. The whacked thing is if anyone actually cared about setback KB's your gun, why would you put aside that round to shoot later? Why wouldn't you just throw it away? Makes no sense does it?
Also inserting a full mag repeatedly with the same top round will scratch that case. May also nick the HP tip.

Last edited by fuzzy03cls; 03-11-2013 at 12:13..
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Old 03-11-2013, 12:59   #25
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Metal Injection Molding, it's a cheaper way of manufacturing gun parts.
It's been around quite a few years. Colt used it on their extractors but
went back to steel after problems. Used for hammers
and other small parts. It doesn't require finish machining or fitting so it saves the manufacturers money. Glock used to use machined steel.
Here's a websight all about it.


http://www.chuckhawks.com/metal_injection_molding.htm
Thank you, sir.
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