Home Forums Classifieds Blogs Today's Posts Search Social Groups



  
SIGN-UP
Notices

Glock Talk
Welcome To The Glock Talk Forums.

 
  
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 07-11-2014, 09:27   #1
Glock19Fan
Cool Guy
 
Glock19Fan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Tennessee
Posts: 2,194
XDS .45 and Hornady 230 grain XTP +P test

I took my XDS .45ACP out to the range this morning and decided to do a gelatin test. The only hollow points I have in .45ACP at the moment are Hornadys 230 grain XTP +P. I figured that despite having a short barrel, the +P should have more than enough velocity to expand from the short 3.3" barrel.

The gelatin I used was from Clear Ballistics and they claim it was calibrated to 3.25". I dont have a chrony so I have no idea what velocity the XTPs were moving at. However, I got a full 16"+ of penetration and the bullet exited out of the block and into a large pile of shredded tires.

From the looks of it, there was absolutely no expansion or upset (tumble, yaw, ect). It was just a clean, straight hole through and through. I had shot the same block with a round of R.I.P 9mm ammo as well as Underwoods 115 grain +P+ Gold Dot JHP because I wanted to see how a variety of bullets and calibers compared. Needless to say, the 9mm easily outperformed the .45ACP in this test.

If anyone is interested I can provide some pictures of the block before I melt it down and reuse.
__________________
Never mistake Kindness for Weakness
Glock19Fan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-11-2014, 11:56   #2
fredj338
Senior Member
 
fredj338's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: so.cal.
Posts: 21,957
Blog Entries: 3
Always attach pics if you have them. Forums are a lot like Playboy, the threads are fine but pics, much better.
__________________
"Given adequate penetration, a larger diameter bullet will have an edge in wounding effectiveness. It will damage a blood vessel the smaller projectile barely misses. The larger permanent cavity may lead to faster blood loss. Although such an edge clearly exists, its significance cannot be quantified".
fredj338 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-11-2014, 12:16   #3
Totn27
Senior Member
 
Totn27's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Surrounded by useful idiots
Posts: 1,485
Glock19Fan

Thanks

You confirmed my suspicion, if I was going to buy an XDS, it would be in 9mm.

Yes, some pics would be great.

Last edited by Totn27; 07-11-2014 at 12:17..
Totn27 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-11-2014, 12:59   #4
Glock19Fan
Cool Guy
 
Glock19Fan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Tennessee
Posts: 2,194
Alright, I will try to remember to take some when I get off work tonight. If you dont see any pictures before tomorrow night, bump the thread becuase I probably forgot.
__________________
Never mistake Kindness for Weakness
Glock19Fan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-11-2014, 13:27   #5
Glock19Fan
Cool Guy
 
Glock19Fan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Tennessee
Posts: 2,194
My camera and this gel do not get along. Besides being a terrible picture, you still get the general idea and outline of the tracks.

Caliber Corner

From top to bottom, the first one is the 230 +P XTP. Fired from the left side, it travels at a slight upward angle due to the angle of the shot, not related to the stability of the bullet. Realistically, the penetration was probably more like 17-18"+

The second shot is the R.I.P. 9mm round fired from the left. After shedding its petals, the base continues forward and exits the block with 16"+ penetration.

The bottom track, fired from the RIGHT, is the Underwood 115 grain +P+ Gold Dot JHP. It yawed twice throughout its penetration. Overall it penetrated roughly 15 inches including deviation and had a final expanded diameter of .89. I still have the recovered bullet which I can post a picture of later.

Once again, this was not at all scientific even by my own standards. This was the first time shooting this clear gelatin and while it seems to be a little more elastic than regular gelatin it seems to be good for comparing bullets. However, I do not think it could be fairly compared to tests using regular gelatin. Just my opinion though

Caliber Corner
__________________
Never mistake Kindness for Weakness
Glock19Fan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-11-2014, 14:25   #6
fredj338
Senior Member
 
fredj338's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: so.cal.
Posts: 21,957
Blog Entries: 3
Thanks for the pics. I love gello shots but wetpack works just as well for me testing expansion. Penetration is less than gel, about 75% consistently. Gel is just so much more diff to work with.
__________________
"Given adequate penetration, a larger diameter bullet will have an edge in wounding effectiveness. It will damage a blood vessel the smaller projectile barely misses. The larger permanent cavity may lead to faster blood loss. Although such an edge clearly exists, its significance cannot be quantified".
fredj338 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-11-2014, 15:00   #7
WinterWizard
Senior Member
 
WinterWizard's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 1,377
There are plenty of hollow points that expand when shot out of the 3.3" XDS barrel.

But I have said it a thousand times, I don't like .45 acp in anything less than a 4" barrel. The 3.78" barrel in the 30/30S/36 may be the only exception, but I consider that to be the absolute minimum.
WinterWizard is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-12-2014, 17:29   #8
Glock19Fan
Cool Guy
 
Glock19Fan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Tennessee
Posts: 2,194
Something interesting I noticed when I was taking more pictures of the block.

Caliber Corner

In the R.I.P. test the <50 grain base (likely traveling less than 1000 FPS) actually made a larger track than the 230 grain +P XTP did, despite being less than 1/4 the weight and much smaller in size.
__________________
Never mistake Kindness for Weakness
Glock19Fan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-12-2014, 17:32   #9
hunter 111
Senior Member
 
hunter 111's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: TRAVEL -
Posts: 1,780
Quote:
Originally Posted by WinterWizard View Post
There are plenty of hollow points that expand when shot out of the 3.3" XDS barrel.

But I have said it a thousand times, I don't like .45 acp in anything less than a 4" barrel. The 3.78" barrel in the 30/30S/36 may be the only exception, but I consider that to be the absolute minimum.
I concur
__________________
"The law isn't necessarily justice nor is justice necessarily lawful "
hunter 111 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-13-2014, 14:09   #10
ca survivor
Senior Member
 
ca survivor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Florida
Posts: 7,796
I appreciate your post, been a recent owner of a XDs in .45 and was looing at a box of Hornadys, to load it up but decided on Speer 230 JHPs, now the 9mm out performed the .45 ACP
__________________
I hate Cancer.

Last edited by ca survivor; 07-13-2014 at 14:10..
ca survivor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-13-2014, 16:05   #11
ray glock
Senior Member
 
ray glock's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Texas
Posts: 1,686
That starburst on the 45 (top one about 3" in) looks like it would play havoc on someone's heart. Also, it looks like that might be some fragmentation in that area
__________________
"Thy word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path." PSALM 119;105
ray glock is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-13-2014, 16:16   #12
j3k
Member
 
j3k's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by ray glock View Post
That starburst on the 45 (top one about 3" in) looks like it would play havoc on someone's heart. Also, it looks like that might be some fragmentation in that area
Pretty sure that's the RIP
j3k is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-13-2014, 17:26   #13
ray glock
Senior Member
 
ray glock's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Texas
Posts: 1,686
Quote:
Originally Posted by j3k View Post
Pretty sure that's the RIP
Yes, I think your right.
__________________
"Thy word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path." PSALM 119;105
ray glock is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-13-2014, 21:23   #14
Glock19Fan
Cool Guy
 
Glock19Fan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Tennessee
Posts: 2,194
Yes, that was a 9mm R.I.P round. Here is a better picture

Caliber Corner

The .45 XTP is the bottom track, the middle is Underwoods 115 +P+ Gold Dot, and the top is the RIP
__________________
Never mistake Kindness for Weakness
Glock19Fan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-13-2014, 21:38   #15
j3k
Member
 
j3k's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 89
I hope I don't start a flame war with this, but that rip looks pretty good. I've got 10 boxes of Underwood's 124 GD's +p+ for the 9 but the way rip frags is, well, intriguing...
j3k is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-13-2014, 22:04   #16
Merkavaboy
Code-7A KUZ769
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: In The State Of Fruitloops (CA)
Posts: 5,427
Given a choice between the Hornady XTP+P in .45 or the RIP in 9mm, I'd take the RIP. Even if the core of the RIP penetrates a body the lightweight core will lose momentum very quickly compared to a 230gr intact .45 bullet.
__________________
"I spent the last two years of high school in a daze....attended classes sparingly, drank beer heavily, and tried drugs enthusiastically."
Barack Obama
One Bad Ass Mistake America
Merkavaboy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-14-2014, 00:52   #17
Glock19Fan
Cool Guy
 
Glock19Fan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Tennessee
Posts: 2,194
Quote:
Originally Posted by j3k View Post
I hope I don't start a flame war with this, but that rip looks pretty good. I've got 10 boxes of Underwood's 124 GD's +p+ for the 9 but the way rip frags is, well, intriguing...
If the attacker is overweight the fragments wouldnt make it through the fat and muscle layer. In fact, im not even confident the fragments would penetrate the ribcage, especially considering they are entering at an angle. Definately a no go for me.

Quote:
Given a choice between the Hornady XTP+P in .45 or the RIP in 9mm, I'd take the RIP. Even if the core of the RIP penetrates a body the lightweight core will lose momentum very quickly compared to a 230gr intact .45 bullet.
Even without expanding, the XTP will cut a cookie cutter like hole in tissue, certainly more than a FMJ. With that said, the core of the R.I.P round, which is most likely a 50 grain copper piece traveling 900-1000 FPS, did more damage than the .45ACP XTP.

Everyone likes to talk about how the .45 is some much better than the 9mm, especially when using FMJ but as I have shown with my previous tests, the .45 is not nearly as good a people want to think. When a 9mm fragment does more damage than a hollow nose .45 at 800-850 FPS, it really should make you rethink the .45.
__________________
Never mistake Kindness for Weakness
Glock19Fan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-14-2014, 12:57   #18
fredj338
Senior Member
 
fredj338's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: so.cal.
Posts: 21,957
Blog Entries: 3
Quote:
Originally Posted by Glock19Fan View Post
Everyone likes to talk about how the .45 is some much better than the 9mm, especially when using FMJ but as I have shown with my previous tests, the .45 is not nearly as good a people want to think. When a 9mm fragment does more damage than a hollow nose .45 at 800-850 FPS, it really should make you rethink the .45.
Being a 45 guy, of course I will disagree. Non expanding in both, I will take the larger perm cav. Yes, some 9mm will tumble increasing that, but can you really count on that? You can run a dead soft 230gr LFP in the 45acp, it will crush a lot of tissue & probable exit an avg size man from any angle. Good JHP make either caliber better. So it just depends on what you are feeding them.
__________________
"Given adequate penetration, a larger diameter bullet will have an edge in wounding effectiveness. It will damage a blood vessel the smaller projectile barely misses. The larger permanent cavity may lead to faster blood loss. Although such an edge clearly exists, its significance cannot be quantified".
fredj338 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-14-2014, 14:11   #19
cowboy1964
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: U.S.A.
Posts: 15,343
I don't like .45 in < 4" either (exception being the Glocks) but I think HSTs work fine from short barrels, even down to 3".

Last edited by cowboy1964; 07-14-2014 at 14:11..
cowboy1964 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-14-2014, 14:12   #20
cowboy1964
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: U.S.A.
Posts: 15,343
Quote:
Originally Posted by fredj338 View Post
Being a 45 guy, of course I will disagree. Non expanding in both, I will take the larger perm cav.
Well who is talking non-expanding 9mm? Everyone knows that is an extremely poor stopper and over penetrator.... as is .45 ball.

Fragmentation, tumbling... doesn't happen with these calibers. You want a good reliable expander that doesn't over penetrate. Period.

Last edited by cowboy1964; 07-14-2014 at 14:14..
cowboy1964 is offline   Reply With Quote

 
  
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump




All times are GMT -6. The time now is 23:35.




Homepage
FAQ
Forums
Calendar
Advertise
Gallery
GT Wiki
GT Blogs
Social Groups
Classifieds


Users Currently Online: 750
193 Members
557 Guests

Most users ever online: 2,672
Aug 11, 2014 at 2:31