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Old 04-14-2013, 11:00   #1
G29SFWTF
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Anyone Ever Seen TMJ's Tested in Gel?

I know JHP's are what is normally tested in ballistic gel but I was wondering if anyone has ever seen a 10mm TMJ tested. Or if not, any caliber ball ammo in gel. If TMJ and FMJ are meant for penetration on large game like grizzly, then surely they also get tested at some point to measure their effectiveness.

Or do they just send some guy out in the woods with a bunch of ball ammo and see if he comes back?
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Old 04-14-2013, 13:06   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by G29SFWTF View Post
I know JHP's are what is normally tested in ballistic gel but I was wondering if anyone has ever seen a 10mm TMJ tested. Or if not, any caliber ball ammo in gel. If TMJ and FMJ are meant for penetration on large game like grizzly, then surely they also get tested at some point to measure their effectiveness.

Or do they just send some guy out in the woods with a bunch of ball ammo and see if he comes back?

Yes, but he's not back yet.
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Old 04-14-2013, 18:48   #3
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They're still trying to buy enough ballistic gelatin to capture a 10mm TMJ round. Testing being done in Texas, complaints from neighbors in Arizona about rounds hitting their buildings.
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Old 04-14-2013, 19:05   #4
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Old 04-15-2013, 06:10   #5
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It's kind of pointless to test most FMJ/TMJ in gel. Most will pass right through a standard block so you need two blocks. The one exception to this is .380 ACP and smaller calibers. tnoutdoors9 on YouTube has done a few .380 ACP FMJ gel tests.
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Old 04-15-2013, 22:18   #6
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I tested PPU 180 gr JHP, which was too slow to expand and exited the side of the block at 23". I also tested Cor-Bon's 180 gr BCSP, which had a healthy velocity but also did not expand. It penetrated 28" of gelatin and some water. I even tested Underwood 220 gr HC, which yawed sharply and exited the blocks at 20".


Unfortunately, it seems that non-expanding bullets have a marked tendency of yawing and leaving the block. This makes it a bit frustrating. We know the penetration from even relatively light solids can be pretty significant but it takes a LOT of gelatin to document that.






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Old 04-16-2013, 06:02   #7
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Thanks for that. I remember now when you did the hardcast. Buffalo Bore states with regards to their penetrator rounds that they are flat nosed because round nosed tends to yaw and not damage tissue as much. Looks like the yaw can happen with flat nosed too. Maybe the 220gr being such a long bullet has something to do with that also.

It's interesting that there was no deformation even with the BCSP. That is supposedly a hot round also.
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Old 04-25-2013, 22:30   #8
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I have shot tons of LBT and Keith hardcast handgun bullets for penetration through wood and have never seen one that did not penetrate straight. Most will exit and go straingt into the backstop. Flat point FMJ's loaded by Buffalo Bore, Double Tap and others will penetrate straight as well.
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Old 04-26-2013, 10:09   #9
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I haven't seen any bullets yaw in wood. It seems like wood is more a test of nose shape efficiency, pointier noses win. 9mm nato does great in wood, but would tumble in a softer medium.

Straight line penetration is mostly a matter of weight distribution, just having a flat nose does not ensure anything.
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Old 04-26-2013, 10:12   #10
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It would be nice to know the gel penetration of UA 200 TMJ.
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Old 04-27-2013, 09:04   #11
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Some day, but it'll take a LOT of gelatin to do it.
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Old 04-27-2013, 11:03   #12
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Some day, but it'll take a LOT of gelatin to do it.
Just a 3' square block about a half mile long.
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Old 04-28-2013, 11:00   #13
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Originally Posted by G29SFWTF View Post
I know JHP's are what is normally tested in ballistic gel but I was wondering if anyone has ever seen a 10mm TMJ tested. Or if not, any caliber ball ammo in gel. If TMJ and FMJ are meant for penetration on large game like grizzly, then surely they also get tested at some point to measure their effectiveness.

Or do they just send some guy out in the woods with a bunch of ball ammo and see if he comes back?
I dont know if this is ultimately what you are trying to figure out or not, but usually Hardcast > TMJ/FMJ even if they have a flat point.
a properly designed hardcast bullet shouldn't yaw, those truncated cone profile bullets from Underwood and BB are far from ideal
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