GlockTalk.com
Home Forums Classifieds Blogs Today's Posts Search Social Groups



  
SIGN-UP
Notices

Glock Talk
Welcome To The Glock Talk Forums.
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 04-19-2013, 09:45   #51
Dennis in MA
Get off my lawn
 
Dennis in MA's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Taunton, MA
Posts: 52,450
Common good is not an emotion.
__________________
The truth is you're the weak. And I'm the tyranny of evil men. But I'm tryin', Ringo. I'm tryin' real hard to be the shepherd.
Dennis in MA is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-19-2013, 09:46   #52
cgjane
Senior Member
 
cgjane's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Miami
Posts: 539
Quote:
Originally Posted by OctoberRust View Post
Then what's the problem with gun registration, I mean if you have nothing to hide of course....
yup, all my guns are stamped. even my pistols.

batfe already has a file on me.

Civil Liberties Issues
__________________
"To a hammer, everything looks like a nail."
cgjane is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-19-2013, 09:46   #53
DanaT
Pharaoh
 
DanaT's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: CO & Baden –Württemberg
Posts: 15,818
Blog Entries: 1
Quote:
Originally Posted by NH Trucker View Post
Given the circumstances, with it being an active manhunt for a terrorist who has already killed people, I'd let them in, and on their way out I'd let them help themselves to my box of Powerbars and bottled water, knowing they're going to have a long night. I have no reason to be a dick to them. It isn't like they're just there to see if there's anything in the house to bust me for.
There is a difference between letting them in and someone forcing their way in.

In all honesty, I would probably let them in if they were so worried unless they totally acted like $%^$&heads. Much of it in real life comes down to how the situation is approached.
__________________
Quote:
Twice a week? 14 times a month?
Quote:
2x4=8, not 14.
Many of the truths that we cling to depend on our point of view.
DanaT is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-19-2013, 09:47   #54
OctoberRust
Anti-Federalist
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Texas
Posts: 5,642
Quote:
Originally Posted by cgjane View Post
yup, all my guns are stamped. even my pistols.

batfe already has a file on me.

Civil Liberties Issues

Two wrongs don't make a right.

Glad to know you support gun control, even if it's at a level of supporting the NFA of 1934.
OctoberRust is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-19-2013, 09:48   #55
DanaT
Pharaoh
 
DanaT's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: CO & Baden –Württemberg
Posts: 15,818
Blog Entries: 1
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dennis in MA View Post
Common good is not an emotion.
It isn't?

Shall I make a list of common good ideas??

Lets start with

Immigration
Social Security
Welfare
Gun Control
Gun Registration
TSA
etc, etc, etc
__________________
Quote:
Twice a week? 14 times a month?
Quote:
2x4=8, not 14.
Many of the truths that we cling to depend on our point of view.
DanaT is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-19-2013, 09:52   #56
Jim85IROC
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Vermont
Posts: 340
Quote:
Originally Posted by ClydeG19 View Post
The urgency of getting this guy in custody overrides privacy rights at this point. This guy was engaging police in a hours long gunfight, using ied's, carjacking bystanders, and potentially has a suicide vest. If he gets to an areas were there is a large group of people, he could still take many people with him.

As has already been stated, the police don't care about your bong or your illegal (in MA) 15 rd magazines. They are focused on finding the suspect.
Tell that to the Saudi guy that they decided to deport despite him having no apparent ties to any of this.
Jim85IROC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-19-2013, 09:53   #57
czsmithGT
Senior Member
 
czsmithGT's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 9,382
This was posted on Twitter this morning by a resident of a Lauryl Street apartment in Watertown:

"Evacuated from our apartment by military with assault weapons around 6 We're all safe"


I guess some on this thread would have told the cops with assault rifles to f-off?
czsmithGT is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04-19-2013, 09:55   #58
DanaT
Pharaoh
 
DanaT's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: CO & Baden –Württemberg
Posts: 15,818
Blog Entries: 1
Quote:
Originally Posted by czsmithGT View Post
This was posted on Twitter this morning by a resident of a Lauryl Street apartment in Watertown:

"Evacuated from our apartment by military with assault weapons around 6 We're all safe"


I guess some on this thread would have told the cops with assault rifles to f-off?
You are equating might with right. As I said, despots the world over agree with your position.

Unless of course you are stating this is wrong, then despots wouldnt agree with you.
__________________
Quote:
Twice a week? 14 times a month?
Quote:
2x4=8, not 14.
Many of the truths that we cling to depend on our point of view.
DanaT is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-19-2013, 09:56   #59
Z71bill
Senior Member
 
Z71bill's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Texas
Posts: 10,842
Well as long as it is common sense house to house searches we should all support it.

How about I get to decide who comes into my home - or follow due process (get a warrant).


BTW - I just saw a group of police (on TV) knock on a door - lady answers - they ask her if everything is OK - she says YES - they ask her to call if she sees anything out of the ordinary - she agrees - they leave.

It appears that law enforcement doesn't understand their rights to force their way into people's homes for no reason.

Last edited by Z71bill; 04-19-2013 at 09:57..
Z71bill is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-19-2013, 10:02   #60
ClydeG19
Senior Member
 
ClydeG19's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Arizona
Posts: 6,950


Quote:
Originally Posted by DanaT View Post
Just out of curiosity..

About 600K residents in Boston (not including suburbs).

Assume 4 people per household = about 150K homes.

1/150k = .0000067

This means each house (assuming he is even in a house) has a 0.00067% chance of having said person of interest.

How do you justify that with a 0.00067% of finding something/someone you are looking for is reasonable?

Would you say that the FDA should approve a drug that has a 0.00067% chance of working as indicated?

Would you accept ammunition for your officers that had a 0.00067% function rate?

Lets look at the opposite. You have a 99.99933% chance of the suspect NOT being in a house.

I am trying to see here how you define doing something with a 0.00067% chance of success as "reasonable."

I guess you think playing the lotto is a "reasonable" way to earn an income too?
Your math is way off. They have a 20 block area cordoned off...not the entire Boston metro area.
ClydeG19 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-19-2013, 10:04   #61
czsmithGT
Senior Member
 
czsmithGT's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 9,382
Quote:
Originally Posted by DanaT View Post
You are equating might with right. As I said, despots the world over agree with your position.

Unless of course you are stating this is wrong, then despots wouldnt agree with you.
I'm stating only a complete moron would interfere with an active police action where they are trying their best to protect innocent civilians while doing also their best to catch a mass murderer who killed at least 4 people and maimed 170 or so. If you can't see that there is nothing more to discuss.
czsmithGT is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04-19-2013, 10:07   #62
Z71bill
Senior Member
 
Z71bill's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Texas
Posts: 10,842
Quote:
Originally Posted by czsmithGT View Post
I'm stating only a complete moron would interfere with an active police action where they are trying their best to protect innocent civilians while doing also their best to catch a mass murderer who killed at least 4 people and maimed 170 or so. If you can't see that there is nothing more to discuss.
So the ends justify the means?

My guess is the terrorists that set off the bombs would agree with you.

Last edited by Z71bill; 04-19-2013 at 10:08..
Z71bill is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-19-2013, 10:12   #63
larry_minn
Silver Membership
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 1999
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 17,798
At this point the house would be highly secured, we would be visibly armed...
I would inform Officers "There is nobody in house but us. Please take these keys, the red key is for this shed,..... Please search them, lock doors when done, bring me back my keys" The dog is inside with us...
larry_minn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-19-2013, 10:13   #64
Bruce M
Senior Member
 
Bruce M's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: S FL
Posts: 20,020
One of the fundamental questions here seems to focus around whether or not the police have a warrant. The problem with that is that the courts have ruled many times that a warrant is not always required for a search. Exigent circumstances sometimes remove the necessary for a warrant.
__________________
Bruce
I never talked to anyone who had to fire their gun who said "I wished I had the smaller gun and fewer rounds with me" Just because you find a hundred people who agree with you on the internet does not mean you're right.
Bruce M is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-19-2013, 10:15   #65
Z71bill
Senior Member
 
Z71bill's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Texas
Posts: 10,842
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruce M View Post
One of the fundamental questions here seems to focus around whether or not the police have a warrant. The problem with that is that the courts have ruled many times that a warrant is not always required for a search. Exigent circumstances sometimes remove the necessary for a warrant.
No doubt - if they see him run into my house they can follow him.

But if I live 3 miles away from where they last saw him - can they also just kick in my front door?
Z71bill is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-19-2013, 10:27   #66
mixflip
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 6,673
I would do my part to help the good guys and let them look around but if I didnt feel like having my house checked I would just not answer the door.

If they break down my door and search my home without my consent...I'll be getting a nice check in a few months.

Im sure someone would probably say they had exigent circumstances where the public is in immanent danger of being blown up by a guy wearing a bomb under his clothes.

I have a steel security door so it would not be easy. I would not be happy but thats why I own several video cameras.

Im not going to be able to stop the police, FBI, ATF and military (I saw a soldier in some of that news footage last night, probably anti terrorism expert or EOD?)

Nowadays if you dont have video, audio or have it in writing, it never happened.

Last edited by mixflip; 04-19-2013 at 10:33..
mixflip is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-19-2013, 10:27   #67
Bruce M
Senior Member
 
Bruce M's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: S FL
Posts: 20,020
3 miles would seem like a stretch. Unless they had a perimeter in place 3 1/2 miles away when he escaped and could suggest the perimeter was tight enough such that he probably did not get through it.
__________________
Bruce
I never talked to anyone who had to fire their gun who said "I wished I had the smaller gun and fewer rounds with me" Just because you find a hundred people who agree with you on the internet does not mean you're right.
Bruce M is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-19-2013, 10:44   #68
ClydeG19
Senior Member
 
ClydeG19's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Arizona
Posts: 6,950


Quote:
Originally Posted by Z71bill View Post
No doubt - if they see him run into my house they can follow him.

But if I live 3 miles away from where they last saw him - can they also just kick in my front door?
Not unless they had specific reason to suspect he's in your house.
ClydeG19 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-19-2013, 12:12   #69
DanaT
Pharaoh
 
DanaT's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: CO & Baden –Württemberg
Posts: 15,818
Blog Entries: 1
Quote:
Originally Posted by ClydeG19 View Post
Your math is way off. They have a 20 block area cordoned off...not the entire Boston metro area.
What is the probability of success and what is the probability of failure in this area then?

What level of success do you think is required before an action is "reasonable"? What level of failure do you believe is required before an action is unreasonable?

Is 90% probability of success reasonable?
50%
10%
1%
0.01%

Would you say that if your car worked 90% of the time, that is reasonable? 10% of the time?
__________________
Quote:
Twice a week? 14 times a month?
Quote:
2x4=8, not 14.
Many of the truths that we cling to depend on our point of view.
DanaT is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-19-2013, 12:13   #70
DanaT
Pharaoh
 
DanaT's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: CO & Baden –Württemberg
Posts: 15,818
Blog Entries: 1
Quote:
Originally Posted by czsmithGT View Post
I'm stating only a complete moron would interfere with an active police action where they are trying their best to protect innocent civilians while doing also their best to catch a mass murderer who killed at least 4 people and maimed 170 or so. If you can't see that there is nothing more to discuss.
The city of Boston is on lock down.

What economic impact do you think this lockdown has?
__________________
Quote:
Twice a week? 14 times a month?
Quote:
2x4=8, not 14.
Many of the truths that we cling to depend on our point of view.
DanaT is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-19-2013, 12:16   #71
DanaT
Pharaoh
 
DanaT's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: CO & Baden –Württemberg
Posts: 15,818
Blog Entries: 1
Quote:
Originally Posted by ClydeG19 View Post
Not unless they had specific reason to suspect he's in your house.
Which what I am seeing on TV, they have no specific reason.

And if they are worried about shootout and bombs, I am not seeing how removing people from their house and having the people standing outside is helping their safety. I am seeing this on live TV.
__________________
Quote:
Twice a week? 14 times a month?
Quote:
2x4=8, not 14.
Many of the truths that we cling to depend on our point of view.
DanaT is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-19-2013, 12:19   #72
Combatcomm
Senior Member
 
Combatcomm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Middle Georgia
Posts: 1,372
Quote:
Originally Posted by SC Tiger View Post
I may be in the minority here but I would let them have a look around. I've got nothing to hide.

Note however I live in a small town in South Carolina and every LEO I have met has, at a minimum, been professional and courteous. Of course, I've never been arrested.

In a big city that may change. I can also see why some would not want to let a LEO in for something like this but then you risk delaying the apprehension for the suspect. Let them check the house, know it is clear, and go on to look elsewhere.
I could not of said it better. This is how I feel.
__________________
Retired Air Force and dam proud of it!! 24 years active, 6 years as a military contractor now a Dept of the Air Force Civilian!
Combatcomm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-19-2013, 12:20   #73
DanaT
Pharaoh
 
DanaT's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: CO & Baden –Württemberg
Posts: 15,818
Blog Entries: 1
Quote:
Originally Posted by mixflip View Post
Im sure someone would probably say they had exigent circumstances where the public is in immanent danger of being blown up by a guy wearing a bomb under his clothes.
You just hit on why this is an issue.

There have been reports of "military grade" explosives being used. These Chechen guys. It doesnt take long to make a connection that Chechen terrorist are very well organized and very brutal. The perps have been reported to have "assualt weapons". It is very "reasonable" to suspect these two guys are not acting alone and there are others involved, and maybe not in boston. Maybe they are in LA?

Why not expand this to searching under exigent circumstances to possible linked terrorists in other areas?
__________________
Quote:
Twice a week? 14 times a month?
Quote:
2x4=8, not 14.
Many of the truths that we cling to depend on our point of view.
DanaT is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-19-2013, 12:24   #74
ClydeG19
Senior Member
 
ClydeG19's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Arizona
Posts: 6,950


Quote:
Originally Posted by DanaT View Post
Which what I am seeing on TV, they have no specific reason.

And if they are worried about shootout and bombs, I am not seeing how removing people from their house and having the people standing outside is helping their safety. I am seeing this on live TV.
And this is occurring within the confined search area or 3 miles away? My comment was in response to someone asking if they could search a house 3 miles away using exigent circumstances as the reason for a warrantless search.
ClydeG19 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-19-2013, 12:27   #75
DanaT
Pharaoh
 
DanaT's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: CO & Baden –Württemberg
Posts: 15,818
Blog Entries: 1
Quote:
Originally Posted by ClydeG19 View Post
And this is occurring within the confined search area or 3 miles away? My comment was in response to someone asking if they could search a house 3 miles away using exigent circumstances as the reason for a warrantless search.
It seemed in the area..but they arent saying where it is.

But how does one define reasonable?

What is the probability of success that is allowed before you put someone in a potentially deadly situation (anytime a gun is pointed at someone it is potentially dnagerous situation for many reasons)? What probably of failure becomes unreasonable?
__________________
Quote:
Twice a week? 14 times a month?
Quote:
2x4=8, not 14.
Many of the truths that we cling to depend on our point of view.
DanaT is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Tags
arrogance of ignorance, brownshirts, jbterrific, no court needed, statists, the usual suspects
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump




All times are GMT -6. The time now is 04:57.



Homepage
FAQ
Forums
Calendar
Advertise
Gallery
GT Wiki
GT Blogs
Social Groups
Classifieds


Users Currently Online: 849
254 Members
595 Guests

Most users ever online: 2,244
Nov 11, 2013 at 11:42