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Old 04-19-2013, 12:45   #81
Z71bill
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Originally Posted by captainstormy View Post
While I certainly wouldn't want them to search my house, lets face it.

If a group of guys with an APC and full tactical/riot gear want to search your house, your not going to stop them.

Did you see the videos of the cops that are out looking for this guy, one could easily mistake the FBI/Police doing the search for the Marines.
Depends on what want means.

If they ask and you say no - my home is secure -

They may accept that and go away - this is what they showed on a clip I saw.

The smaller question is --

If you - in a respectful - business like way - tell them - he is not in my home - I do not want you to search my house.

Then why in the heck would they want to waste valuable time at my home?
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Old 04-19-2013, 12:50   #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Z71bill View Post
Depends on what want means.

If they ask and you say no - my home is secure -

They may accept that and go away - this is what they showed on a clip I saw.

The smaller question is --

If you - in a respectful - business like way - tell them - he is not in my home - I do not want you to search my house.

Then why in the heck would they want to waste valuable time at my home?
Exactly.

Hypothetically speaking if I was one of those homeowners I'd tell them my home is safe and secure and there is no need to search there.

I'd imagine that would be enough for them truth be told. But if they wanted to force themselves in and look, I certainly wouldn't try to physically stop them.
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Old 04-19-2013, 13:00   #83
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Originally Posted by captainstormy View Post
Exactly.

Hypothetically speaking if I was one of those homeowners I'd tell them my home is safe and secure and there is no need to search there.

I'd imagine that would be enough for them truth be told. But if they wanted to force themselves in and look, I certainly wouldn't try to physically stop them.

I would not try and physically stop them - IMHO that changes your position from being in the right - to being in jail (or dead).

I will assume these situations can play out based on very small things - but think that 99/100 times -

If the homeowner smiles - is friendly - acts like a normal person (not a nut job) but says - I am fine - my home is secure - he is not here - I do not want my home searched - that the powers that be will leave you alone.

I expect that if you show up at the door in body armor and have a AR - ordering them off your property - you will get a completely different experience.
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Old 04-19-2013, 13:03   #84
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I'm sorry officer, I cannot let you in without a search warrant. This is not because I have something to hide. I simply don't want to act as an accessory to my own inconvenience. I assure you, there is nothing inside my house that you would be interested in. Have a nice day!
I would add: I have a Glock and the guy you are looking haven't met my Glock, yet. If so, I'll call you to pick his body up.

I am sure LEO will laugh when he hear this.
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Old 04-19-2013, 13:11   #85
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Originally Posted by cgjane View Post
This.

If you have nothing to hide, then whats the problem?
I would let them in because I would want to help them find this idiot, but the "If you have nothing to hide, then why wouldn't you let someone search your house" line of thinking is a bunch of BS. Should we just submit to searches of our property and person whenever demanded?
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Old 04-19-2013, 14:16   #86
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It is my understanding that these are not simple knock on the door and let us in and have a looky looky searches..These are getting called out of your home via bull horn(or such).Once out of the dwelling you are ushered down the street by 50 or 60 police/swat, and the dwelling is cleared by LEO's in a thorough manner..This is a accurate depiction from the brother of a watertown resident ...

I would have to be put in the situation before I would know what I would do..

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Old 04-19-2013, 14:28   #87
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Let me guess, this is all a ruse to allow the government to see how many guns and how much ammo these residents have. I knew it!


Give me a freaking break.


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Old 04-19-2013, 14:33   #88
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Let me guess, this is all a ruse to allow the government to see how many guns and how much ammo these residents have. I knew it!


Give me a freaking break.
Lets see what Uncle Joe and Obumer try to implement to restrict our rights based upon this.

Maybe we need the vehicle mounted portable porno scanners in public areas? Drones overhead of all public events?

They were very quick to say the suspects had "assault rifles".
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Old 04-19-2013, 14:38   #89
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I'd let them take a look around. The Police have a sh$%load of ground to cover and you aren't doing them any favors by holding them up just because you have a right to.

Right now is a good time to be practical.
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Old 04-19-2013, 14:49   #90
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Can't help but think of Franklin..."those that would give up essential liberty for temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety"

Definitely question the decision to go door to door
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Old 04-19-2013, 14:56   #91
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I did not bother to read all of the responses. The little one is keeping me busy today. Just a few thoughts?

Have we seen a manhunt with this intensity before?

If we are at war with militant islamists is this not a battle at home?

What are the officers searching for?

What is the intrusion into property?

What are the potential outcomes for failing to search a home?

What would 12 people pulled at random off the street think is reasonable?

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Old 04-19-2013, 14:57   #92
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Look what happened to the old lady in N.O. during the aftermath of Katrina.

She didn't want LEO's in her home, didn't want them to take her unloaded handgun and didn't want to be removed from her home.

She was treated like a dog and nothing was ever done to punish the guys who mis-treated her.

Your rights only matter when you are willing to standup for them.
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Old 04-19-2013, 14:57   #93
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Assume you are a Watertown, MA resident and the cops come a-knocking looking for Mr. Jihad. Do you answer and if you do, would you let them in for alook around or would you assume your word is good enough? What if they insist and force their way in? Does a manhunt like this suspend your Constitutional 4th Amendment rights?

Discuss.
A terrorist is cornered in the local neighborhood. Policemen are trying to corner him, keep him from slipping away. They are asking homeowners to allow them to search houses, etc. to catch this terrorist. What to do? What to do? Not hard to figure out! You lower the muzzle of your AR-15, you unlock the door and invite them inside and walk with them through the house. Ask them what rounds they prefer for house to house operations. Offer them some coffee if you have any in the kitchen. As they leave thank them for their service and tell them you'll be praying for their safety. And... as they leave the house... lock the door. It's not so hard to figure out. All you have to do is use a little common sense.
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Old 04-19-2013, 14:58   #94
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You are asking for thinking in an arena ruled by feeling.

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Old 04-19-2013, 14:58   #95
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Not sure if this is the correct thread -

But how in the heck did this guy get past all of the law enforcement in the first place?

My understanding is they were holed up inside a building - a big gun fight - they shoot and kill one of them - and the other manages to just leave?
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Old 04-19-2013, 15:01   #96
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Originally Posted by Z71bill View Post
If the homeowner smiles - is friendly - acts like a normal person (not a nut job) but says - I am fine - my home is secure - he is not here - I do not want my home searched - that the powers that be will leave you alone.
OTOH, if in such a situation the LEOs leave without searching your home because you were convincing. But in fact the BG was holding you or another family member hostage. And the BG decides to the ultimate deed, hopefully your estate won't sue the cops.
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Old 04-19-2013, 15:08   #97
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OTOH, if in such a situation the LEOs leave without searching your home because you were convincing. But in fact the BG was holding you or another family member hostage. And the BG decides to the ultimate deed, hopefully your estate won't sue the cops.
Even so - it should be my choice - my home - my family -

You want the police walking into your home with ARs while the terrorist is holding your family - at gun point - or with a bomb - in the back bedroom?

Think they will give a **** about your family while they are spraying bullets throughout your home?

I am still wondering what they are doing at the homes where no one answers the door -



BTW - "should be" does not mean "is'.
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Old 04-19-2013, 15:09   #98
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Not sure if this is the correct thread -

But how in the heck did this guy get past all of the law enforcement in the first place?

My understanding is they were holed up inside a building - a big gun fight - they shoot and kill one of them - and the other manages to just leave?
Try tracking two targets that look similar in the middle of a gunfight. Not to mention, let's be honest, law enforcement in this coubtry , especially now with budget cuts and personnel shortages, is just staying afloat most days in any place other than Mayberry. When my two coworkers were killed recently and we had a brief manhunt it took every available on duty officer in a county of 260k and there were still holes in our perimeter. If he had played out cool at the right moment he probably could have slipped it easy. I think he wanted suicide by cop. These turds in Boston want to kill again. Notice they didn't blow themselves up at the marathon. If not caught this guy will kill again. Every cop in the Boston area is operating under Osama ROE. Unless he is conspicuously surrendering he will likely be shot.

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I wonder if your assessment of "The Wizard of Oz" would sound something like "A teenaged orphan runs away with three psychotic AD/HD patients and a little dog. She kills the first two women she meets." --Sinecure 07/03/2006
Freakin' awsome!! Kickin it old school. Hot sheet on the dash. The report was probably only two sentences. Long live Rencko and Bobbie Hill!--WhiskeyT
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Old 04-19-2013, 15:14   #99
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Originally Posted by Brucev View Post
A terrorist is cornered in the local neighborhood. Policemen are trying to corner him, keep him from slipping away. They are asking homeowners to allow them to search houses, etc. to catch this terrorist. What to do? What to do? Not hard to figure out! You lower the muzzle of your AR-15, you unlock the door and invite them inside and walk with them through the house. Ask them what rounds they prefer for house to house operations. Offer them some coffee if you have any in the kitchen. As they leave thank them for their service and tell them you'll be praying for their safety. And... as they leave the house... lock the door. It's not so hard to figure out. All you have to do is use a little common sense.
Ha, show up at the door with an AR and you're likely to be on the undercard of the main event.
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Old 04-19-2013, 15:15   #100
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You are asking for thinking in an arena ruled by feeling.

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Well, then give us a number. I have asked fora number that means reasonable.

What probability of success is needed to perform an action before it is reasonable?

90% probability of success?
50% probability of success?
10% probability of success?
1% probability of success?
0.1% probability of success?
0.0000001% probability of success?

Since YOU the TBO god claim it should not be ruled by feeling, give us hard fast mathematical data to support your claim.

Put the probability of you actually being able to do this in the area of of a Gaussian distribution tail that is somewhere in the region of 20 sigma and 30 sigma below the mean.
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