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Old 04-21-2013, 09:43   #26
sheriff733
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I guess magic is the only logical solution... to keep everyone content AND safe?
Yeah, all I see are a bunch of folks complaining about the way it was handled, but I don't see any solutions being offered for a way to do it and stay within their guidelines, other than just keep driving around looking for the gunman and wait for more bombs to go off killing more innocent people.
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Old 04-21-2013, 09:47   #27
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What I see:

click HERE
Civil Liberties Issues

click HERE
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Old 04-21-2013, 09:50   #28
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Let's see what context is missing from the videos...how close is this to where the suspect was last seen? How long ago was it? Was there evidence or information to suggest he may still be in the area or in those houses in particular?

It's easy to MMQ after the fact when more facts are known. It's not so black and white when circumstances are so rapidly evolving.
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Old 04-21-2013, 09:51   #29
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Yeah, all I see are a bunch of folks complaining about the way it was handled, but I don't see any solutions being offered for a way to do it and stay within their guidelines, other than just keep driving around looking for the gunman and wait for more bombs to go off killing more innocent people.
Yep. Now that you have said that, however, there should be someone along any moment to give the perfect solution utilizing hindsight as a foundation.
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Old 04-21-2013, 09:51   #30
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Whether or not you think forcibly removing Americans from their homes, in the name of public saftey, is good idea or not, there should be little doubt that the terrorists now know they can shut down a major metropolitan area with just one or two guys.
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Old 04-21-2013, 09:54   #31
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Whether or not you think forcibly removing Americans from their homes, in the name of public saftey, is good idea or not, there should be little doubt that the terrorists now know they can shut down a major metropolitan area with just one or two guys.
It's nothing new. They've known that since 9/11.
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Old 04-21-2013, 09:55   #32
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Yep. Now that you have said that, however, there should be someone along any moment to give the perfect solution utilizing hindsight as a foundation.
In before "All they had to do was check backyards for boats."
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Old 04-21-2013, 09:56   #33
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Whether or not you think forcibly removing Americans from their homes, in the name of public saftey, is good idea or not, there should be little doubt that the terrorists now know they can shut down a major metropolitan area with just one or two guys.
Yep, the terrorists have won.
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Old 04-21-2013, 10:12   #34
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Yep, the terrorists have won.
Not only has the government trampled the constitution but a large percent of the people believe it's the right thing to do.

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Old 04-21-2013, 10:13   #35
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What if the Muslim was standing behind the door with a pistol to your wife's/kid's head telling you to say everything is good since he knows they are going to leave if you say that?

Then what?

Would you rather him not even try to hide in your house because he knows that regardless of what you say, they are going to check the house, or would you rather risk your family's safety because by God, the police can't search my house if I don't allow them to, especially in this rather extreme circumstance?
I'll take my chances with the suspect. I'd prefer my dogs not get shot when they react appropriately to the swat team coming in, or grabbing me when I answer the door. Especially considering the minuscule chance that the guy is actually in my house. Plus if he did break in my house the dogs going nuts and the gunshots would probably attract attention...

Personally I'm still rather curious how the guy managed to get away Thursday night to begin with. I can't find any details on how exactly the guy managed to slip away, but from what I was hearing that night it sounded like most of the police weren't getting close/not going after him because he might have more explosives. If so they essentially let a bombing suspect with explosives slip away, putting the city population at risk and causing this situation to begin with.
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Old 04-21-2013, 10:14   #36
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Id invite them in, offer coffee, a cold drink or something to eat.. Thanks for protecting us! Then when they left offer a prayer for their safety and to find the SOB.
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Old 04-21-2013, 10:25   #37
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I'll take my chances with the suspect. I'd prefer my dogs not get shot when they react appropriately to the swat team coming in, or grabbing me when I answer the door. Especially considering the minuscule chance that the guy is actually in my house. Plus if he did break in my house the dogs going nuts and the gunshots would probably attract attention...

Personally I'm still rather curious how the guy managed to get away Thursday night to begin with. I can't find any details on how exactly the guy managed to slip away, but from what I was hearing that night it sounded like most of the police weren't getting close/not going after him because he might have more explosives. If so they essentially let a bombing suspect with explosives slip away, putting the city population at risk and causing this situation to begin with.
Easy to say that sitting in a comfortable chair talking about it online. "Tell them everything is fine and to go away or I will kill your wife and kids" would have a slightly different ring to it if it were actually happening given the suspect's recent history. Besides, not everyone has dogs, is armed (it's MA remember), and all that.
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Old 04-21-2013, 10:25   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FCastle88 View Post

Personally I'm still rather curious how the guy managed to get away Thursday night to begin with. I can't find any details on how exactly the guy managed to slip away, but from what I was hearing that night it sounded like most of the police weren't getting close/not going after him because he might have more explosives. If so they essentially let a bombing suspect with explosives slip away, putting the city population at risk and causing this situation to begin with.
From what I've read, he may have been listening to the scanner feed or following the twitters from people who were listening. So he basically knew what the cops were doing.
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Old 04-21-2013, 10:29   #39
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Dear God GNG.....
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Old 04-21-2013, 10:30   #40
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Personally I'm still rather curious how the guy managed to get away Thursday night to begin with. I can't find any details on how exactly the guy managed to slip away, but from what I was hearing that night it sounded like most of the police weren't getting close/not going after him because he might have more explosives. If so they essentially let a bombing suspect with explosives slip away, putting the city population at risk and causing this situation to begin with.
Yea? Well, how should they have dealt with him?
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Old 04-21-2013, 10:30   #41
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Dear God GNG.....
It's become unbelievable.
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Old 04-21-2013, 10:31   #42
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Yea? Well, how should they have dealt with him?
I've lost all hope anyone will bother to answer that question.
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Old 04-21-2013, 10:37   #43
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wow, all this for one 19 year old? what if it had been a squad of 10 not running from but, fighting? tactical nukes? lol!
It is refreshing to see how many here, staunch constitutional supporters all, quickly understand that sometimes it is really important that we not use a stupid piece of paper over two hundred years old to impede the government from doing what it wants to do.

This proves that many GLOCKtalkers understand that in the name of temporary safety, we have to give up essential liberty.

The government will provide for our safety a bit at a time.

Now it has been established that most Americans believe the government has a right to enter your home, forcibly if necessary, to see if there is anyone criminal inside, but only in "unusual and extreme" situations. Especially if they have a specific criminal in mind. Next time, what if they decide the criminal may want to arm himself. Well, no harm as long as they give you a receipt for the guns they take. After, it will be an "unusual, extreme" situation, I've no doubts.

Every wonder why cattle plod so dumbly towards the hammer and blade? It is because they are so stupid.
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Old 04-21-2013, 10:37   #44
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Yea? Well, how should they have dealt with him?
Can't blame the officers on scene for him getting away. But forcing American out of their homes at gunpoint didn't do our country any good. I doubt the decision to do such things was from individual officers, but the people in charge appeared to think suspending the constitution is OK if they REALLY, REALLY think it's a good idea.

As to a better way to find the guy?...
Lifting the lockdown seemed to have helped.
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Old 04-21-2013, 10:40   #45
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So were the houses where the owners weren't home searched or was it just the occupied houses?
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Old 04-21-2013, 10:41   #46
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Just a few thoughts -

On days when the sun is shining and all is well - the rights we have as citizens don't normally need protecting.

In times of trouble & high stress - is where protections become important.


------------------
I can in no way prove this - and sort of guess some in this thread will strongly disagree - go ahead - it is just my observation.

The people - politicians - law enforcement - that see no problems with government kicking citizen's rights to the curb for every emergency that comes along -

Would be the most butt hurt group of all if THEY were subjected the the exact same treatment.

A part of the reason they think these actions are OK is because they have the view they will never be subjected to them.

OH hell I know all the people on the force - no problem come on in and search - can not even imagine that their family - wife or daughter holding a baby - would be forced out into the street at gunpoint.
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Old 04-21-2013, 10:41   #47
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I've lost all hope anyone will bother to answer that question.
There are a lot of MM qb's ruinin' around in the pocket, I just wanna see who thinks they can make the play. I haven't givin' up yet.
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Old 04-21-2013, 10:44   #48
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As to a better way to find the guy?...
Lifting the lock down seemed to have helped.
Do you think they found that out after the fact or do you presume they had put the inquiry to their crystal ball before lifting the lock down?
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Old 04-21-2013, 10:44   #49
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Originally Posted by DocwithGlock View Post
Can't blame the officers on scene for him getting away. But forcing American out of their homes at gunpoint didn't do our country any good. I doubt the decision to do such things was from individual officers, but the people in charge appeared to think suspending the constitution is OK if they REALLY, REALLY think it's a good idea.

As to a better way to find the guy?...
Lifting the lockdown seemed to have helped.
Qualified yourself as almost to biased to function.
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Didn't the whole sheepdog thing actually start right here on Glock Talk? A bunch of wannabees bought a bunch of T-shirts and took an oath to defend those who won't defend themselves?
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Old 04-21-2013, 10:45   #50
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Id invite them in, offer coffee, a cold drink or something to eat.. Thanks for protecting us! Then when they left offer a prayer for their safety and to find the SOB.
Offer them coffee?

Why do you think you would not be ordered out of your home at gun point?

Why do you think you would you be treated any differently than the folks on the video?

Are you in law enforcement? So you don't expect the same treatment as the "regular" citizens?
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