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Old 04-21-2013, 11:04   #61
kiole
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Exigent circumstance.
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Old 04-21-2013, 11:06   #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kylenewman View Post
Exigent circumstance.
You don't really expect people content to fling poo to comprehend that subject, do you?
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Didn't the whole sheepdog thing actually start right here on Glock Talk? A bunch of wannabees bought a bunch of T-shirts and took an oath to defend those who won't defend themselves?

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Old 04-21-2013, 11:07   #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sheriff733 View Post
What if the Muslim was standing behind the door with a pistol to your wife's/kid's head telling you to say everything is good since he knows they are going to leave if you say that?

Then what?
I sure as hell aint gonna tell the LEO's he is there..Then what?He shoots them(wife,kids etc) on the spot,correct?
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Yep. Because one gunman is roaming the city streets my rights become void? Total 1984 mentality.

Im not scared of a terrorist~Im scared of a bunch of goons playing military
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Originally Posted by sheriff733 View Post
Easy to say that sitting in a comfortable chair talking about it online. "Tell them everything is fine and to go away or I will kill your wife and kids" would have a slightly different ring to it if it were actually happening given the suspect's recent history. Besides, not everyone has dogs, is armed (it's MA remember), and all that.
So your suggesting telling the police he is in the house,when he has a gun to your family members head?
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Originally Posted by DocwithGlock View Post
Rudely displaying weapons can be necessary when warranted. The key word being WARRENTED.

Like I said, those officers probably didn't decide to ignore the constitution on their own...they were 'just following orders'.
The latter is a very valid point

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Old 04-21-2013, 11:09   #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TBO View Post
Gonna be a lot of folks with carpal tunnel.
Probably judges who filled out all of those warrants describing the probable cause and specifying which houses to search.

"The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized."
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Old 04-21-2013, 11:09   #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ohio mossy oak View Post
I sure as hell aint gonna tell the LEO's he is there..Then what?He shoots them(wife,kids etc) on the spot,correct?




So your suggesting telling the police he is in the house,when he has a gun to your family members head?


The latter is a very valid point
You missed this part:

Quote:
Originally Posted by sheriff733 View Post
Would you rather him not even try to hide in your house because he knows that regardless of what you say, they are going to check the house
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Old 04-21-2013, 11:11   #66
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Originally Posted by DocwithGlock View Post
i don't presume to know everything. You seem to think you know best...you tell us. Was not finding him and allowing people out of their homes part of the plan
The objective was finding him. If it was as simple a being part of the plan then that's how plans would always work. A series of steps simply including the objective. In the real world plans don't go as you would like and your objective is most times meet with changes in the plan.

And I don't know best, what I do know is that you nor I were there. To look at a few videos or hear a few pieces of information then presume to know what happened or what should have been done is foolish.

Nobody wants the POPO invading on their privacy but everyone wants the bad guy caught...yet no one at this point has the magical solution of how that is accomplished while keeping all of the sheep perfectly happy.
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Old 04-21-2013, 11:12   #67
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I'm as fearful of us losing our rights as anyone, but they wouldn't be breaking the law at my residence because I would welcome them in... Whatever gets them through and past my house to move on and find what they're looking for the better... I'd feel like I was contributing to the greater...
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Old 04-21-2013, 11:14   #68
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I'm as fearful of us losing our rights as anyone, but they wouldn't be breaking the law at my residence because I would welcome them in... Whatever gets them through and past my house to move on and find what they're looking for the better... I'd feel like I was contributing to the greater...
Under these circumstances, that's what normal citizens would gladly do to get the terrorist out of their neighborhood. But, you're about to be called an idiot. Wait for it.
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Old 04-21-2013, 11:15   #69
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What happened to the houses where no one was home? Were they searched just like the occupied ones?
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Old 04-21-2013, 11:23   #70
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Originally Posted by sheriff733 View Post
Under these circumstances, that's what normal citizens would gladly do to get the terrorist out of their neighborhood. But, you're about to be called an idiot. Wait for it.
I have no problem with people giving consent if they so choose. My problem is with ignoring the constitution and individual freedom and safety in the name of some "greater good". If someone saw a killer run into my home and swore to it, or it was witnessed by an officer in pursuit, I have no problem with the whole metro PD charging in after them. That is not what this is about.
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Old 04-21-2013, 11:26   #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DocwithGlock View Post
I have no problem with people giving consent if they so choose. My problem is with ignoring the constitution and individual freedom and safety in the name of some "greater good". If someone saw a killer run into my home and swore to it, or it was witnessed by an officer in pursuit, I have no problem with the whole metro PD charging in after them. That is not what this is about.
What if another household decides not to answer the door since they have done nothing wrong and will decline consent regardless?
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Old 04-21-2013, 11:27   #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kylenewman View Post
Exigent circumstance.
Doesn't meet the criteria.


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Old 04-21-2013, 11:29   #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DocwithGlock View Post
I have no problem with people giving consent if they so choose. My problem is with ignoring the constitution and individual freedom and safety in the name of some "greater good". If someone saw a killer run into my home and swore to it, or it was witnessed by an officer in pursuit, I have no problem with the whole metro PD charging in after them. That is not what this is about.
I understand what you're saying, and even agree to a point.

But, what is a better plan? Let him break into a house, the police come to check and the homeowner says all is good, then proceed to hold a family hostage, wait for police to eventually (hopefully) notice, try to negotiate with him, negotiations fail, SWAT makes entry, the terrorist detonates a bomb killing himself, the family, and all the officers

I just don't see a better way. I don't like it any better than you do, but this time there HAD to be an exception made. I'm hoping someone can point me in the direction of a better way of handling it, but I'm not going to hold my breath.
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Last edited by sheriff733; 04-21-2013 at 11:33..
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Old 04-21-2013, 11:31   #74
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Originally Posted by uz2bUSMC View Post
What if another household decides not to answer the door since they have done nothing wrong and will decline consent regardless?
I guess the officers would have to wait outside until they got a warrant. They could wait outside near the boat perhaps...
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Old 04-21-2013, 11:33   #75
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From what I've read, he may have been listening to the scanner feed or following the twitters from people who were listening. So he basically knew what the cops were doing.
I'm sure he was, he at least seems to be fairly intelligent. Mostly I'm referring to how did he initially get away when his brother was killed. Didn't anyone on the scene jump in their vehicle and chase after him? Was there a helicopter in the area? Given the time this was happening the streets should have been pretty empty, shouldn't it have been fairly easy to find an SUV speeding around? If they did find the SUV right away, at that point it's a pretty small search area, have some cops set up a perimeter, the rest get in there and look for him. At that point home searches might have been warranted, as it would have been a small, focused search of the immediate area. From what I was hearing that night it sounded like most of the LEO's were being told to stay back and not really go after him because he might have more explosives, allowing him to slip away. We keep getting details about the rest of the chase and search, but this part is still "somehow he slipped away".
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Old 04-21-2013, 11:34   #76
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I just don't see a better way. I don't like it any better than you do, but this time there HAD to be an exception made. I'm hoping someone can point me in the direction of a better way of handling it, but I'm not going to hold my breath.
I can't say what would be a 'better way'. I can say that when we start making exceptions the floodgaits get opened for all of our protections to crumble.
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Old 04-21-2013, 11:36   #77
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I guess the officers would have to wait outside until they got a warrant. They could wait outside near the boat perhaps...
Well, I guess that would suck if instead it was a family held hostage and unable to answer...hopefully their house was next in line. But then again, obviously there are enough LEO where wasting time discussing and waiting for warrants for an abundance of houses is no big deal...
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Old 04-21-2013, 11:37   #78
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Doesn't meet the criteria.


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I was not aware you were a judge.
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"Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored."

“Ignorance is a lot like alcohol: the more you have of it, the less you are able to see its effect on you.”


Originally Posted by Rooster Rugburn:
Didn't the whole sheepdog thing actually start right here on Glock Talk? A bunch of wannabees bought a bunch of T-shirts and took an oath to defend those who won't defend themselves?
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Old 04-21-2013, 11:38   #79
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Originally Posted by sheriff733 View Post
You missed this part:
So you're saying despite the whole area being locked down and searched, including yards, sheds, etc., the guy won't hide in a house because the house might be searched? The whole area is being searched, still probably better off sneaking into someone's basement or attic than waiting around outside to be found.
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Old 04-21-2013, 11:40   #80
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So were the houses where the owners weren't home searched or was it just the occupied houses?
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