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Old 04-21-2013, 17:39   #1
nursetim
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Why is this an issue?

In regards to the manhunt for the bomber, this isn't the first manhunt for a dangerous individual. Why is the legality of the search all of a sudden an issue? It's happened before, and likely will happen again.

Is it that we see our bill of rights being whitled away before our very eyes? A decade or more ago, we wouldn't have thought twice about cooperating with the police in this kind of manhunt. Now we seem to almost revile the police as much as the suspected terrorist. Why?

This is not a bashing thread. Just casual observations.

Least I be misunderstood, I do not in anyway want warfare in this country, for any reason.

Are we growing weary of the encroachment of the government on our lives that we are seeing more people push back?

I think making the job of the police officer harder than it is, a grave mistake. Though some seem to invite defiance by virtue of the attitude they foster.

The "us Vs. them" chasim has grown much wider over the years.
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Old 04-23-2013, 08:29   #2
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I think it is because (in part) everything ends up on a video -

If the government kicked in a few doors in 1975 it may have made the local news -

Stories conflict - who gets the benefit of the doubt? (government)

Today - same thing - and it ends up on You Tube and people can see what actually happened.

Think of the dash camera on a patrol car -

Before they existed if the government pulled you over - beat the snot out of you for no reason they could just say - he took a swing at me.

Not so easy if the whole thing gets recorded - and today everything gets recorded.

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Old 04-23-2013, 14:43   #3
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So what you're saying is we have always disliked the police, we just have more evidence to back that opinion now, is that it? I'm just clarifying my understanding. Am I right?
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Old 04-23-2013, 15:04   #4
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I think it is a combination of TMI out there on video and it generates emotions and propels agendas. You are correct, this is far from the first time it has happened. I can remember it not being uncommon especially around some prisons when there was an escaped convict for instance. But it was so inconsequential and made good sense back then and IT WASN'T ON NATIONAL TV and people with an "anti-everything" agenda DIDN"T HAVE THE INTERNET to bray on like donkeys.

Putting in real perspective, the police actions are actually a local police issue and there is a system that will sort out the propriety of their actions, but hey, this is the internet, we can take anything, anywhere and connect it to our agenda.

We really have a small percentage that are bent about it, the internet just makes them seem bigger (to themselves mostly)
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Old 04-23-2013, 15:13   #5
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because of cameras, media ,videos , people can see more of what goes on out in the world. think about , i know alot of people who have dash cams in their cars and recorders just in case . its the sign of the times

and thankfully alot of bad people get busted because of video ,on both sides
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umm excuse me are those extragent circus pants you have on ?? or do you work for a circus ?
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Old 04-23-2013, 16:28   #6
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I do not dislike the police or any government employee but do dislike and will stand against anyone who would disregard my rights.
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Old 04-23-2013, 18:10   #7
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So what you're saying is we have always disliked the police, we just have more evidence to back that opinion now, is that it? I'm just clarifying my understanding. Am I right?
I don't know - video has no doubt added a new angle

Police are no different than any other person - some are good - some are scum -

With no proof the scum got away with more - video exposes the bad actors - and it unfairly makes them all look bad.

No different than any job really -
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Old 04-23-2013, 18:19   #8
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one thing i do notice locally and national , the unrest between LEO and US is growing larger . i also dont want to see war inside our borders but it could happen . who knows . people are starting to push alittle . time will tell . i hope not but if it does be ready . we are
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Old 04-23-2013, 20:52   #9
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What proof "unfairly makes them all look bad"?

A lot of you have the luxury of Monday morning quarterbacking, some of us don't.

What may look out of line to you was and is very well justified given the situation.

There are bad apples on both sides, believe me. It disgusts me. I worked with guys who are now residents of a Federal Correctional Institution. Even more who will never possess a badge or gun ever again. We don't like them either. But every time you get a traffic ticket; it doesn't make the cops the 'enemy'. Man up.

As for the 'civil unrest'; nobody in LE wants that, believe me. I certainly don't, to think that it is going that way is utterly ridiculous.

Watch some of the mobbing videos on the NYPD, officers making an arrest are bombarding by near rioting teenagers. More often than not if I arrest someone there is a camera in my face from a bystander. SOMEONE else called me there, I arrested the person who committed the offense, yet I'm the bad guy. Why? Why? Why is that acceptable behavior?

I don't think it is an LE vs. Population issue; I believe it is a personal responsibility issue in this country. If you don't believe it just read some of the posts on here.
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Old 04-23-2013, 21:46   #10
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one thing i do notice locally and national , the unrest between LEO and US is growing larger . i also dont want to see war inside our borders but it could happen . who knows . people are starting to push alittle . time will tell . i hope not but if it does be ready . we are
I have the opposite impression around my region. The number of Sheriffs that put out letters refusing to enforce any new Federal Firearms laws, has seemed to make a tighter feeling among the populace and the police.

You should stick to local prognostication sparky, your national meter is out of whack.
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Old 04-23-2013, 21:47   #11
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What proof "unfairly makes them all look bad"?

A lot of you have the luxury of Monday morning quarterbacking, some of us don't.

What may look out of line to you was and is very well justified given the situation.

There are bad apples on both sides, believe me. It disgusts me. I worked with guys who are now residents of a Federal Correctional Institution. Even more who will never possess a badge or gun ever again. We don't like them either. But every time you get a traffic ticket; it doesn't make the cops the 'enemy'. Man up.

As for the 'civil unrest'; nobody in LE wants that, believe me. I certainly don't, to think that it is going that way is utterly ridiculous.

Watch some of the mobbing videos on the NYPD, officers making an arrest are bombarding by near rioting teenagers. More often than not if I arrest someone there is a camera in my face from a bystander. SOMEONE else called me there, I arrested the person who committed the offense, yet I'm the bad guy. Why? Why? Why is that acceptable behavior?

I don't think it is an LE vs. Population issue; I believe it is a personal responsibility issue in this country. If you don't believe it just read some of the posts on here.
I don't know if you are responding to me -

I said

With no proof the scum got away with more - video exposes the bad actors - and it unfairly makes them all look bad.

I can explain it better --

Back before videos - if a cop was an abusive POS scum bag - he had a good shot at getting away with it - his word against a criminal / average citizen - the tie went to the cop.

Now there are dozens of videos of some really bad police work - beating people in handcuffs - abusive language - being a complete turd - all caught on video -

When citizens see a cop - on video - being an ass hole it sticks in their head - and they start to think all cops are like this.

Truth is only a few cops are "bad" - but the good cops get painted - unfairly with the same brush -

Just like there are some bad bankers - stock brokers - plumbers - HVAC techs - car salesman -

Not fair - but what is?


BTW - it is also about peoples expectation

If a profession is held up as something special - teacher - doctor - firefighter - cop - the public expects them (right or wrong) to operate at a higher standard.
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Old 04-23-2013, 22:25   #12
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I don't know if you are responding to me -

I said

With no proof the scum got away with more - video exposes the bad actors - and it unfairly makes them all look bad.

I can explain it better --

Back before videos - if a cop was an abusive POS scum bag - he had a good shot at getting away with it - his word against a criminal / average citizen - the tie went to the cop.

Now there are dozens of videos of some really bad police work - beating people in handcuffs - abusive language - being a complete turd - all caught on video -

When citizens see a cop - on video - being an ass hole it sticks in their head - and they start to think all cops are like this.

Truth is only a few cops are "bad" - but the good cops get painted - unfairly with the same brush -

Just like there are some bad bankers - stock brokers - plumbers - HVAC techs - car salesman -

Not fair - but what is?


BTW - it is also about peoples expectation

If a profession is held up as something special - teacher - doctor - firefighter - cop - the public expects them (right or wrong) to operate at a higher standard.

Did you miss the part where I said I didn't like bad cops either? And most cops on here are in agreement. FYI: "abusive POS scum bags" don't last too long and eventually weed themselves out.

You can't really put police officers into the same realm as HVAC techs and bankers. Come on, apples and oranges. How many bankers have you seen on YouTube being asked stupid questions and acting out just to get a rise out of them?

I realize we're held to a higher standard than other people. I live my life to the best of my abilities to adhere to the Code of Ethics and the Oath I took. I don't have to be asked to do that; I do that because that is what someone of good character should do anyway. When did we as a country determine that what is going on is OK? That violence against law enforcement is OK? That folks wanting civil unrest is OK?

Again, the issue lies in the lack of personal responsibility and the severe societal dysfunction we see in the world today.

We are not Nazi's, we are not Jack booted thugs, we are not storm troopers. We are your neighbors. Our kids go to school with your kids, I am someone's son, someone's significant other, someone's father, someone's brother...get my drift? They'd all like me to come home at the end of my shift (which seems to be a running joke by some of the posters here).

In my short career I've been spit on, punched, kicked, scratched, had a woman attempt to piss through my glass partition on me, rolled around in a ditch with a guy or two who realllly didn't want to go to jail. I'm sorry if your comparison just doesn't quite work for me. I don't care about thanks, recognition or medals. I do this job because I enjoy it, because of the look of relief on the elderly woman's face at 0230 when she calls the police because she heard someone on her back porch and I show up and tell her it's alright. There are still people in this world who appreciate police officers and I need to remind myself of that when I wander in here.

I saw no one else looking for that Boston suspect. I didn't see a bunch of guys on GNG saying "this is bull****, we need to do something". I sat here all week hurting for those people who were injured and killed and even more angry that there was nothing I could do about it. That's the kind of people that we are.
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Old 04-24-2013, 07:40   #13
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Did you miss the part where I said I didn't like bad cops either? And most cops on here are in agreement. FYI: "abusive POS scum bags" don't last too long and eventually weed themselves out.

You can't really put police officers into the same realm as HVAC techs and bankers. Come on, apples and oranges. How many bankers have you seen on YouTube being asked stupid questions and acting out just to get a rise out of them?

I realize we're held to a higher standard than other people. I live my life to the best of my abilities to adhere to the Code of Ethics and the Oath I took. I don't have to be asked to do that; I do that because that is what someone of good character should do anyway. When did we as a country determine that what is going on is OK? That violence against law enforcement is OK? That folks wanting civil unrest is OK?

Again, the issue lies in the lack of personal responsibility and the severe societal dysfunction we see in the world today.

We are not Nazi's, we are not Jack booted thugs, we are not storm troopers. We are your neighbors. Our kids go to school with your kids, I am someone's son, someone's significant other, someone's father, someone's brother...get my drift? They'd all like me to come home at the end of my shift (which seems to be a running joke by some of the posters here).

In my short career I've been spit on, punched, kicked, scratched, had a woman attempt to piss through my glass partition on me, rolled around in a ditch with a guy or two who realllly didn't want to go to jail. I'm sorry if your comparison just doesn't quite work for me. I don't care about thanks, recognition or medals. I do this job because I enjoy it, because of the look of relief on the elderly woman's face at 0230 when she calls the police because she heard someone on her back porch and I show up and tell her it's alright. There are still people in this world who appreciate police officers and I need to remind myself of that when I wander in here.

I saw no one else looking for that Boston suspect. I didn't see a bunch of guys on GNG saying "this is bull****, we need to do something". I sat here all week hurting for those people who were injured and killed and even more angry that there was nothing I could do about it. That's the kind of people that we are.
I am not saying a banker and a cop have the same job --

It is just that if enough bankers are exposed doing bad things - at some point the public perception of ALL bankers gets tarnished.

You see enough bankers on the news that (knowingly) wrote bad loans, foreclosed on homes when the payments were made, took large bonuses while the bank lost billions -

You start to think all bankers are scum.

When in reality it is only a small % that are bad.

Now replace bankers with videos of cops gone wild -

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Old 04-24-2013, 08:34   #14
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I saw no one else looking for that Boston suspect..
As I recall, everyone else was told to stay in their houses, and the only time they were allowed out was when LEO came and told them to get out at the point of a gun, hands in the air? I also recall that when people were finally allowed to exit their houses, the first thing a civilian did was promptly find the dangerous suspect that the police had been looking for? I am just saying.......
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Old 04-24-2013, 20:01   #15
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I am not saying a banker and a cop have the same job --

It is just that if enough bankers are exposed doing bad things - at some point the public perception of ALL bankers gets tarnished.

You see enough bankers on the news that (knowingly) wrote bad loans, foreclosed on homes when the payments were made, took large bonuses while the bank lost billions -

You start to think all bankers are scum.

When in reality it is only a small % that are bad.

Now replace bankers with videos of cops gone wild -

So it would be a safe bet that there are far more professions whose members misfit their professions than law enforcement?
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Old 04-24-2013, 21:15   #16
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As I recall, everyone else was told to stay in their houses, and the only time they were allowed out was when LEO came and told them to get out at the point of a gun, hands in the air? I also recall that when people were finally allowed to exit their houses, the first thing a civilian did was promptly find the dangerous suspect that the police had been looking for? I am just saying.......
And why did the police not find him in the boat? Do you know?
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Old 04-24-2013, 23:21   #17
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And why did the police not find him in the boat? Do you know?
No, I don't know. Do you? I was just replying to Ohio Copper who seemed to be complaining that no one BUT LEO were looking. Thought it noteworthy to point out the reason no one else was looking, and also that once others were allowed to look, the suspect got found. The more eyes that are looking, the better the chance of someone being found?
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Old 04-24-2013, 23:54   #18
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No, I don't know. Do you? I was just replying to Ohio Copper who seemed to be complaining that no one BUT LEO were looking. Thought it noteworthy to point out the reason no one else was looking, and also that once others were allowed to look, the suspect got found. The more eyes that are looking, the better the chance of someone being found?

The house was outside of the perimeter, was it not?
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Old 04-25-2013, 05:13   #19
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No, I don't know. Do you? I was just replying to Ohio Copper who seemed to be complaining that no one BUT LEO were looking. Thought it noteworthy to point out the reason no one else was looking, and also that once others were allowed to look, the suspect got found. The more eyes that are looking, the better the chance of someone being found?
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The house was outside of the perimeter, was it not?
Correct, Ohio Copper, the property was just outside the perimeter, about/maybe a block and a half.

Stevekozak, while in theory your last question sound good, it is not in this specific situation. If you are looking for an individual, one person, who is dressed so as to blend in, to be unremarkable, and you have dozens of people of like build, dressed the same or similarly, all out roaming the street, you invite multiple false sightings resulting in wasted deployment of resources.

It happened several times that morning. Some people did not heed the recommendation to stay inside. They happened to dress in hoodies. People saw them, called 911. Units were sent to check on them. One was thought to have been sighted by a deputy commander in one of the zones. That resulted in a full team deployment to that property. After more than an hour, it was sorted out and proven to be false.

No, sir, you do not want non-trained individuals roaming the streets "helping". Stay in their homes, observe through windows, yes. On the streets? NO!

If I am wrong, I invite anyone actually in law enforcement to correct me.
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Old 04-25-2013, 07:41   #20
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So it would be a safe bet that there are far more professions whose members misfit their professions than law enforcement?
People are people - my guess is the % of scum for different professions is about the same.

If you have strong feelings that law enforcement is somehow much better (ethics/honesty whatever standard) than others - you may want to step back and consider why you think this way.

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