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Old 04-22-2013, 21:37   #1
lilglockboy
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SBR thoughts.

I have my paper work from the ATF to file a form 1 for my build. But everyone at work keeps insisting that I not do an SBR and just make the build using a 16" barrel. I am not going to break any laws! They keep saying that with everything going on with some of these states passing laws and the way our government is going, that if there were any kind of gun confiscation or the local authorities knocking on your door because of some lame ass medical excuse saying they need to take your weapons, that people with class 3 weapons will be the first to go. Whatever! What are your thoughts on doing an SBR or full 16" for plinking, having fun with friends, and just my toy?
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Old 04-22-2013, 22:14   #2
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The question is not one of money, or muzzle velocity, but of how often do you anticipate traveling outside of your state, and how much advance notice you would have prior to the interstate travel. Compliance with 18 USC 922(a)(4) might be inconvenient for you, or not so much.
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Old 04-22-2013, 22:24   #3
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The question is not one of money, or muzzle velocity, but of how often do you anticipate traveling outside of your state, and how much advance notice you would have prior to the interstate travel. Compliance with 18 USC 922(a)(4) might be inconvenient for you, or not so much.
I really do not plan on going out of state with my rifle. Just having fun at my nearest outdoor range. I am just so twisted on what my co workers have been preaching and the f'ed up stories I have been reading about confiscating guns in NY and other places by the Feds and local authorities.
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Old 04-22-2013, 23:57   #4
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Old 04-23-2013, 05:57   #5
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I went with a BCM 14.5 with perm hider (Battle comp). It's the best compromise I could justify for short length and speed of build.
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Old 04-23-2013, 07:31   #6
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Build what you want, nevermind your co-workers. You can't live your life in fear of "what ifs"... That and SBRs are cool!
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Old 04-23-2013, 07:43   #7
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Build what you want, nevermind your co-workers.
Agreed. I'm about to Form 1 two stripped lowers that are in my safe so that I can put them together in the future when my time and money allows.

Here's something to consider:

The NFA registry in regards to Form 1 items does not constitute a registry of existing weapons and their owners. It is a registry of weapons for which the tax has been paid to "make". The current disposition is not effectively tracked as you do not have to notify the ATF if you neglect to "make", dispose of or remove the weapon from the NFA purview. Furthermore, you don't have to notify the ATF of in-state moves, so the registry is further degraded from a data aspect in as much as they don't have current addresses for the owners or the weapons.

Simply put: I doubt there would be a confiscation based on the NFA registry.
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Old 04-23-2013, 08:08   #8
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Where do you work? Why is that relevant?

Build what makes you happy.
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Old 04-23-2013, 09:10   #9
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Build what you want, nevermind your co-workers. You can't live your life in fear of "what ifs"... That and SBRs are cool!
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Old 04-23-2013, 10:34   #10
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Originally Posted by wct097 View Post
Agreed. I'm about to Form 1 two stripped lowers that are in my safe so that I can put them together in the future when my time and money allows.

Here's something to consider:

The NFA registry in regards to Form 1 items does not constitute a registry of existing weapons and their owners. It is a registry of weapons for which the tax has been paid to "make". The current disposition is not effectively tracked as you do not have to notify the ATF if you neglect to "make", dispose of or remove the weapon from the NFA purview. Furthermore, you don't have to notify the ATF of in-state moves, so the registry is further degraded from a data aspect in as much as they don't have current addresses for the owners or the weapons.

Simply put: I doubt there would be a confiscation based on the NFA registry.
If you change your residence, you do have to notify the ATF in writing of the change. The no notice in state only applies when going to a range, friends house, etc.

Any time your SBR crosses state lines, you must notify the ATF in advance, and it would be strongly advised to wait for the signed form to come back k, and take a copy with you.

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Old 04-23-2013, 10:47   #11
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If you change your residence, you do have to notify the ATF in writing of the change. The no notice in state only applies when going to a range, friends house, etc.
I have found no ATF ruling or law to support this. Can you direct me to that information? The only notification requirement I've found is the 5320.20 which is for "interstate", not "intrastate".

The Form 1 and 4 do request notification, but again, I haven't found where that is the law.
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Old 04-23-2013, 12:12   #12
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If your going to SBR, go short, not simply 14.5. For myself, I like the SBR for its compactness for my professional uses. For range fun etc, I actually prefer a standard 16" or 14.5" that is pinned. I don't mind pinning 14.5's because I have several rifles / uppers to chose from, but I do not normally suggest a 14.5 pinned for someone newer to the platform as many wish to make changes at some point and pinned can leave less options and not everyone wants to just build a new upper.
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Old 04-23-2013, 15:37   #13
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Build the sbr. Send in the form 1 and start collecting parts. Like surf said, there isn't really a point in building a 14.5 if you have a view to go sbr anyway. Go short.

The government isn't going to come for NFA firearms anyway. For one, they are making money by charging the tax, and also or of the proposals for a new ban was to register all AR-15's with the NFA, basically meaning the govt was ok with the NFA registry. These guns will be safe.
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Old 04-23-2013, 16:41   #14
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Build the sbr. Send in the form 1 and start collecting parts. Like surf said, there isn't really a point in building a 14.5 if you have a view to go sbr anyway. Go short.

The government isn't going to come for NFA firearms anyway. For one, they are making money by charging the tax, and also or of the proposals for a new ban was to register all AR-15's with the NFA, basically meaning the govt was ok with the NFA registry. These guns will be safe.
Well put. Thanks everyone
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Old 04-23-2013, 16:48   #15
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Of all the AR's i own, my SBR is the most fun and the one i shoot the most. It always comes to the range with me.

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Old 04-23-2013, 17:15   #16
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Originally Posted by wct097 View Post
I have found no ATF ruling or law to support this. Can you direct me to that information? The only notification requirement I've found is the 5320.20 which is for "interstate", not "intrastate".

The Form 1 and 4 do request notification, but again, I haven't found where that is the law.
I got the information straight out of the mouth of Dana Pickles, one of the NFA inspectors, and the one that signed my Form 1.

5320.20 is only required for interstate, but if your permanent address changes, you still need to notify them in writing. This can be done by letter, or use the 5320.20 if you just want an easy form to fill out. I was in the process of moving when my Form 1 was approved, and I had to file a change of address the day I got my stamp back.

Edit to add: That conversation was well over 2 years ago, so it is entirely possible that Dana said it was strongly suggested to keep your address up to date, but not mandatory. Based on a little google-fu, that seems likely. Either way, I am a fan of keeping my backside well and truly covered - usually in armor plate, if I can get away with it.
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Old 04-23-2013, 18:21   #17
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I'm by no means an expert on the subject, though I did do some research and came up with nothing. I personally have notified the ATF by letter that I've moved. I figure if nothing else, it reduces the possibility for an issue approving the 5320.20 when I submit it with a different address than they have on file.
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Old 04-28-2013, 12:12   #18
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Fear of confiscation is not a reason to avoid owning an NFA weapon, in my opinion. Also, when filling out your Form 1, do yourself 2 favors. First, note the barrel length on the application as the shortest length available, as you can always buy a longer barrel than what you registered without any grief from the BATFE. Second, register your weapon for as many calibers as you could ever think of wanting, because at some point you will want other calibers.


Example:

Want an 11.5" AR15 SBR in 5.56? Register it as a 7.5" and add 6.8mm, 9mm, and maybe .300BLK too.
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Old 04-28-2013, 12:37   #19
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Fear of confiscation is not a reason to avoid owning an NFA weapon, in my opinion. Also, when filling out your Form 1, do yourself 2 favors. First, note the barrel length on the application as the shortest length available, as you can always buy a longer barrel than what you registered without any grief from the BATFE. Second, register your weapon for as many calibers as you could ever think of wanting, because at some point you will want other calibers.


Example:

Want an 11.5" AR15 SBR in 5.56? Register it as a 7.5" and add 6.8mm, 9mm, and maybe .300BLK too.
Great info thanks.
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Old 04-28-2013, 13:14   #20
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Fear of confiscation is not a reason to avoid owning an NFA weapon, in my opinion. Also, when filling out your Form 1, do yourself 2 favors. First, note the barrel length on the application as the shortest length available, as you can always buy a longer barrel than what you registered without any grief from the BATFE. Second, register your weapon for as many calibers as you could ever think of wanting, because at some point you will want other calibers.


Example:

Want an 11.5" AR15 SBR in 5.56? Register it as a 7.5" and add 6.8mm, 9mm, and maybe .300BLK too.
Before submitting my Form 1, I had an inspector tell me outright to NOT list multiple calibers on the paperwork. The only reason given was that some inspectors didn't like it, and it could land you in the back of the pile. It was suggested to me to submit the Form 1 with ONE barrel length, and ONE caliber listed, then file an amendment letter at a later date if you needed to permanently alter the configuration.
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Old 04-28-2013, 13:29   #21
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SBR away! Love mine.

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Old 04-28-2013, 14:15   #22
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Before submitting my Form 1, I had an inspector tell me outright to NOT list multiple calibers on the paperwork. The only reason given was that some inspectors didn't like it, and it could land you in the back of the pile. It was suggested to me to submit the Form 1 with ONE barrel length, and ONE caliber listed, then file an amendment letter at a later date if you needed to permanently alter the configuration.
That is what i was told, I have mine registered as a 10.3" in 5.56mm. It spends it life that way locked in the safe but it is legal to put any other upper on it at any time. If i would sell the 10.3 upper then i would have to amend the form to the new uppers specs.
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Old 04-28-2013, 14:23   #23
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Before submitting my Form 1, I had an inspector tell me outright to NOT list multiple calibers on the paperwork. The only reason given was that some inspectors didn't like it, and it could land you in the back of the pile. It was suggested to me to submit the Form 1 with ONE barrel length, and ONE caliber listed, then file an amendment letter at a later date if you needed to permanently alter the configuration.
Ditto. Do not use multi caliber. I put 5.56 MM and had no problems.
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Old 04-28-2013, 14:25   #24
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Isn't the interstate restriction on transport of an NFA item for commercial purposes only? Can anyone show me where I am prohibited from transporting for recreational purposes my NFA weapon to any state where I can legally possess it?

And SBRs are cool. Just do it!

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Old 04-28-2013, 14:47   #25
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I think the whole NFA could be simplied by taking $200 and the form to the nearest IRS office and let them issue you a nice rubber stamp on your copy of the form......then you go to the FFL and let them run the background check for the rifle/lower/whatever you want. Then you could engrave the number they give ya on the item..............would make for a hell of a lot of cash for the government.
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