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Old 04-23-2013, 17:34   #1
NEO Hunter
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Do I want a QR scope mount or Traditional Scope mount?

I have narrowed my scope mount search to a LaRue, Rock River, or Burris PEPR. What I can't decide is if I want to get a QR and run a flip up rear sight as a back up or save the money and just mount with a traditional mount.I dont see myself taking it off much but I am new to ARs so I am not familiar with the benefits. I am using the rifle for coyote hunting and a little plinking. All opinions appreciated.


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Old 04-23-2013, 17:43   #2
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Does not sound as if you even need back up sights.
Get a quality set of rings and a good scope.
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Old 04-23-2013, 17:44   #3
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I try to avoid non-QD scope mounts. If the scope gets wrecked, you can drop it from the rifle in a few seconds, deploy iron sights, and continue on. Plus, it makes swapping optics easier.

If you go QD, it's really hard to beat LaRue. I use LT mounts for both my Leupold and my Aimpoint Micro.
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Old 04-23-2013, 17:52   #4
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I prefer QR mounts for scopes and bipods. If you ever think you'll want to remove the scope, it's nice to know you won't need to spend time and ammo getting back to zero again.
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Old 04-23-2013, 18:10   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PVolk View Post
I prefer QR mounts for scopes and bipods. If you ever think you'll want to remove the scope, it's nice to know you won't need to spend time and ammo getting back to zero again.
Depends on the mount. Some return to zero better than others.
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Old 04-23-2013, 18:24   #6
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Originally Posted by WoodenPlank View Post
Depends on the mount. Some return to zero better than others.
Right. I wouldn't use anything other than a PEPR or Larue.
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Old 04-23-2013, 18:26   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WoodenPlank View Post
Depends on the mount. Some return to zero better than others.
Cough... LaRue... Cough

Quote:
Originally Posted by PVolk View Post
Right. I wouldn't use anything other than a PEPR or Larue.
PEPRs aren't known for their return to zero capability. They are Chinese made mounts, and while they are ok for the sole purpose of QD to get to irons, they suck at returning to zero. I have had experience with 3 different copies and none of them reasonably returned to zero.


OP, Like you said in your other threads, this is going to be a budget varmint/range gun. A plain basic set of picatinny rings will serve you just fine. I, like Plank, am a big proponent of LaRue QD mounts, but like most good things they come at a price. I have 4 LaRue mounts and they ALL return to zero every time.
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Old 04-23-2013, 18:52   #8
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Thanks for the responses I didn't know PEPRs were Chinese so those are out I try to avoid anything china made That I can. So it looks I will probably go with the LaRue or just a good set of rings. People do seem to like the Rock River mounts also and they are about the same price as rings.

I did notice LaRue has an option for the VFZ option with their SPR model. Anyone had any experience with those. They run about 50.00 cheaper.


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Old 04-23-2013, 18:59   #9
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They are the same mount just not QD.


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Old 04-23-2013, 22:50   #10
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I see no reason to run anything but RTZ-QDs on any rifle.

They hold resale better, don't limit you. Traditional mounts do exactly the opposite.
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Old 04-24-2013, 05:13   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PVolk View Post
Right. I wouldn't use anything other than a PEPR or Larue.
The PEPR would be suitable for an airsoft.........
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Old 04-24-2013, 07:18   #12
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How did Larue and PEPR get mentioned in the same breath?
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Old 04-24-2013, 07:32   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Travclem View Post
PEPRs aren't known for their return to zero capability. They are Chinese made mounts, and while they are ok for the sole purpose of QD to get to irons, they suck at returning to zero. I have had experience with 3 different copies and none of them reasonably returned to zero.
My PEPR had no issues with returning to zero. Of course, it makes a difference to have it set up properly too. I used dial calipers to match the front and rear spacing so that there was equal tension across the rail. I never left the scope mounted to the rifle and it was always zero'd the few times I used it. I know my test was no 500-cycle Larue test, but it did return to zero everytime I needed it to. I couldn't ask for much more from it.
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Old 04-24-2013, 07:38   #14
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Originally Posted by bullittmcqueen View Post
How did Larue and PEPR get mentioned in the same breath?
Because one is the best unit on the market, and the other is the second best...


Some of you purists crack me up. Larue makes an excellent product, but not everybody needs or wants a $210 scope mount. And contrary to popular belief, the mounts that don't say "Larue" still function for mounting a scope to a rifle.
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Old 04-24-2013, 08:14   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PVolk View Post
My PEPR had no issues with returning to zero. Of course, it makes a difference to have it set up properly too. I used dial calipers to match the front and rear spacing so that there was equal tension across the rail. I never left the scope mounted to the rifle and it was always zero'd the few times I used it. I know my test was no 500-cycle Larue test, but it did return to zero everytime I needed it to. I couldn't ask for much more from it.
At what distances were your tests conducted? mine were done at 100yds and 500yds. The closest I ever got to returning to zero was 1.5MOA off of the center of the pre-detachment group. The other 2 were 2+MOA, and while that may be acceptable to some, it's not good enough for me.
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Old 04-24-2013, 08:23   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PVolk View Post
Because one is the best unit on the market, and the other is the second best...


Some of you purists crack me up. Larue makes an excellent product, but not everybody needs or wants a $210 scope mount. And contrary to popular belief, the mounts that don't say "Larue" still function for mounting a scope to a rifle.
That is like saying the Aimpoint T-1 is the best and the Bushnell TRS-25 is second best.

There are a lot of great mounts on the market, and the PEPR is not what I would call one of them. LaRue, Bobro, American Defense, Alamo Four Star, GG&G, etc. The PEPR is FAR from second best.

The 2 best RTZ mounts in my experience are LaRue and Bobro, but the Bobro has a high propensity for spring failure rendering the mount useless.

There is no sense in mounting a $2500 scope to a $3500 rifle with a $80 Chinese mount. Like the Bushnell TRS-25, I would have no problem with a PEPR on a .22 or range plinker, which is what the OP wants. That's why I told him it would most likely work for him. He doesn't want it because it's Chinese.
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Old 04-24-2013, 08:51   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Travclem View Post
At what distances were your tests conducted? mine were done at 100yds and 500yds. The closest I ever got to returning to zero was 1.5MOA off of the center of the pre-detachment group. The other 2 were 2+MOA, and while that may be acceptable to some, it's not good enough for me.
Mine were at 100 yards. 1.5 MOA would be acceptable to me for a plinker. Did you adjust any of yours with dial calipers prior to use?

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Originally Posted by Travclem View Post
There are a lot of great mounts on the market, and the PEPR is not what I would call one of them. LaRue, Bobro, American Defense, Alamo Four Star, GG&G, etc. The PEPR is FAR from second best.

The 2 best RTZ mounts in my experience are LaRue and Bobro, but the Bobro has a high propensity for spring failure rendering the mount useless.
Then I suppose we have differing opinions of what best fits 'second best'. Though you seem to be overally critical of the PEPR because of it's 1.5-2 MOA groups, while giving second best to the one that has "high propensity" for becoming useless. You're welcome to your opinion though.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Travclem View Post
There is no sense in mounting a $2500 scope to a $3500 rifle with a $80 Chinese mount. Like the Bushnell TRS-25, I would have no problem with a PEPR on a .22 or range plinker, which is what the OP wants. That's why I told him it would most likely work for him. He doesn't want it because it's Chinese.
I agree. If I had $6k wrapped up into a rifle and scope, I'd probably buy the best scope mount on the market for it. But at this point we don't know anything about the OP's rifle or scope. But we do know that the PEPR (as well as most mount options) will be fine for plinking and shooting coyotes. And being that the OP is budget minded, maybe the $210 Larue is more than he needs and the difference in price can be better spent on ammo.

Every scope mount thread seems to turn into "Larue is the only one worth buying - all others are junk and don't work". Not everyone is shooting .5 MOA groups at 500 yards with the $3500 rifle and $2500 scope.
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Old 04-24-2013, 09:04   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PVolk View Post
Mine were at 100 yards. 1.5 MOA would be acceptable to me for a plinker. Did you adjust any of yours with dial calipers prior to use?
Yes, all were equally torqued.

Quote:
Then I suppose we have differing opinions of what best fits 'second best'. Though you seem to be overally critical of the PEPR because of it's 1.5-2 MOA groups, while giving second best to the one that has "high propensity" for becoming useless. You're welcome to your opinion though.
Not 1.5-2 MOA groups, The scope was off zero by 1.5-3 MOA after being reattached. The Bobro actually returns to zero when in use, The PEPR doesn't. High propensity may have been an exaggeration, but there are documented cases of that particular mount failing (Bobro) though. The PEPR hasn't been on the market long enought to judge long term failure rates.


Quote:
I agree. If I had $6k wrapped up into a rifle and scope, I'd probably buy the best scope mount on the market for it. But at this point we don't know anything about the OP's rifle or scope. But we do know that the PEPR (as well as most mount options) will be fine for plinking and shooting coyotes. And being that the OP is budget minded, maybe the $210 Larue is more than he needs and the difference in price can be better spent on ammo.

Every scope mount thread seems to turn into "Larue is the only one worth buying - all others are junk and don't work". Not everyone is shooting .5 MOA groups at 500 yards with the $3500 rifle and $2500 scope.
His rifle is a PSA M4, and while he is being budget minded, he doesn't want any Chinese crap. I agree that the PEPR would be fine for plinking, but second best to LaRue is laughable.

I gave a long list of other mounts that are acceptable, not just LaRue.
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Old 04-24-2013, 09:25   #19
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I just realized the Bobro is more expensive than the Larue LT104. That alone would eliminate it from my list of possibilities if I were in the market.

So, what's your favorite sub-$100 QR mount, Trav?
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Old 04-24-2013, 09:48   #20
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I can't say that I have one. I don't have a favorite sub-$3 hamburger or sub-$500 1911 either. I am not a fan of substandard/mediocre things in life, some things just cost a little money. In the grand scheme of things a $100 difference in cost of a scope mount is a small investment in something that will last a lifetime. I learned long ago that is is cheaper to spend more money upfront then to buy a substandard item only to buy the good one later. Buy once, cry once.

I don't like the Bobro mounts either, but I can say that they do return to zero every time.
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Old 04-24-2013, 10:53   #21
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I have Mueller Speed Shot mounted on a Burris PEPR on a S&W Optic Ready Carbine. The scope is 1-4.5 and has a dot reticule that can be illuminated or not. I've used it in 3 gun, AR tactical classes and known distance (out to 400 yards) shoots. I've had kids and first time shooters banging steel with it at 200 meters. Just place the dot on the target and squeeze. It is silly fun.

I don't even have BUIS on that rifle because the scope doesn't depend on batteries. Use the black dot during the day, turn it on in low light. That rifle/scope combo has been banging around in the back of my truck (in a case of course) for over a year and hasn't lost zero.
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Old 04-24-2013, 10:58   #22
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i have one of the early PEPR non-QD mounts and it has been fine. i havent moved it in a few years and it has held zero on some hunts and lots of plinking with a bit of reflexive fire drills and such.

that said, i am far from hard on this rifle and that sounds like what the OP is asking for. if i were building a rifle to go to war with, i would buy LT QD mounts and better optics but a factory stag carbine with a yhm free float tube and a PEPR/Millett DMS combo is a different animal than a professional combat rifle.

now after 10 years of military experience as an MP and unit armorer through multiple combat deployments, i also doubt that 99% of the soldiers out there have gotten their rifles as hot and dirty as i have had mine and it has kept up fine, my stag that is. im a firm believer in taking care of my rifle though. full of sand or mud can happen but the likelihood is far less than most AR owners think it should be. and if something happens to your rifle that will cause even a PEPR mount to break or fail, then youre in over your head, imho.
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Old 04-24-2013, 17:12   #23
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Thanks for the responses. I decided to just get some rings to mount my scope and save the money for ammo. I will keep the laRue in mind for my next rifle once I get a bigger budget.


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Old 05-02-2013, 21:43   #24
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Just wanted to give a little follow up. I did decide to buy a QR mount. I had trouble finding rings locally that I wouldn't need a riser for. Primary Arms had the American Defense Recon for 159.00 so I decided to go with it. I am glad I did seems really well made(in the USA) and mounts really easily. Still saved $50 off the LaRue. I will probably never take it off but at least I have that option now.


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Old 05-03-2013, 03:40   #25
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That ADM will be a good mount for you.
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