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Old 05-05-2013, 16:43   #61
VinnieD
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Cons:
Light and slow round
Limited capacity in its most popular platforms
Pocket guns also come in 9mm and .38spl which are almost as small (but not quite)
Small frame means a very difficult to control gun even with the lighter recoil of the round. It's just very hard to hold on to such a tiny grip.

Pros:
Extremely compact package
Still better than a .32 or lower
Was good enough for James Bond
Some gun is better than no gun, so if you absolutely can't carry anything bigger it's better to have a .380 than nothing.
Easier to control recoil in larger packages makes .380 ideal for those who are recoil averse or arthritic.
Compact pocket guns make good backup guns without adding much bulk to your EDC.

All in all, I can't say that pros outweigh cons or vice versa, but rather that .380 is an extremely situational round. Yes most popular rounds are more powerful, but there are cases where you genuinely can't carry anything larger, or might be an older or smaller shooter who can't handle anything more powerful.

Certainly .380 has its purposes. It won't replace more powerful rounds, but neither can more powerful rounds take its place, in those instances where the .380 shines either for the very small guns that can fire it, or its extremely mild recoil in full size guns.
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Old 05-05-2013, 16:52   #62
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Originally Posted by Delmonte67 View Post
That's it damn it! Caliber Corner I'm carrying my AR15 in my golf bag-JUST IN CASE!!! There may be 10 assailants or the Koreans invade us while I'm on the 17th hole!!!!! Zombies !!! I'm sooo stupid!!! What was I thinking???!!!:p


Some folks are still going to think you're under gunned... You need a .50 BMG
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Old 05-05-2013, 16:59   #63
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pro: small pistol

con: Colt created it for girly men. who can easily conceal it in the purse.


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Old 05-05-2013, 17:01   #64
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Originally Posted by dakrat View Post
pro: small pistol

con: Colt created it for girly men. who can easily conceal it in the purse.


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Second time you've posted something to that extent in this thread... Troll much?
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Old 05-05-2013, 17:01   #65
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Originally Posted by PhotoFeller View Post
Sounds like you wouldn't mind taking a couple .380 slugs in the chest at 10'. Let us know how that works out for you.
that would hurt real bad. how would you like to be in a dual with a .45 acp?


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Old 05-05-2013, 17:02   #66
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Is that a sub2000 in your pocket ? or are you happy to see me !.
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Old 05-05-2013, 17:02   #67
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Second time you've posted something to that extent in this thread... Troll much?
nope, each post is different.

its quite entertaining to see you guys get it all in a wad.


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Old 05-05-2013, 17:05   #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VinnieD View Post
Cons:
Light and slow round
Limited capacity in its most popular platforms
Pocket guns also come in 9mm and .38spl which are almost as small (but not quite)
Small frame means a very difficult to control gun even with the lighter recoil of the round. It's just very hard to hold on to such a tiny grip.

Pros:
Extremely compact package
Still better than a .32 or lower
Was good enough for James Bond
Some gun is better than no gun, so if you absolutely can't carry anything bigger it's better to have a .380 than nothing.
Easier to control recoil in larger packages makes .380 ideal for those who are recoil averse or arthritic.
Compact pocket guns make good backup guns without adding much bulk to your EDC.

All in all, I can't say that pros outweigh cons or vice versa, but rather that .380 is an extremely situational round. Yes most popular rounds are more powerful, but there are cases where you genuinely can't carry anything larger, or might be an older or smaller shooter who can't handle anything more powerful.

Certainly .380 has its purposes. It won't replace more powerful rounds, but neither can more powerful rounds take its place, in those instances where the .380 shines either for the very small guns that can fire it, or its extremely mild recoil in full size guns.
Absolutely agree! I LOVE my 40 Cal Glock and always carry it, I shoot it way better than my 9's- believe it or not. Just wanted something (better than nothing) to conceal in my shorts, loved the BG's size and I cant tell its there. 380 better caliber than 40? Never! But it was a lot thinner/lighter than the micro nines I looked at. I bought a 32 Kel TEC off a buddy a few years ago and hated it! Sights sucked and you could hardly hit anything at 10 feet-sold it. Shot my friends Bodyguard and was highly impressed with the accuracy-awesome! So I bought one for myself. It has real sights, external safety, slide lock back after last round and don't forget the laser! Lol! (never used it) Seriously all joking with my fellow GT'ers aside- its a pretty good shooter and not one hiccup ever- I would recommend it to anyone who wants to carry a 380 during a shorts/ hot day out. But 75% of the time its my trustworthy G27- never a better pistol I have ever owned- in my honest opinion
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Old 05-05-2013, 17:06   #69
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I've drafted a post for this thread a few times, but always decided to delete it. maybe this one will get posted.

Anyway, the advantages of the diminutive .380's are few, with the primary ones being lighter weights & smaller sizes than most of the smallish 9's.

Disadvantages run longer, and mostly revolve around how much harder it is for many folks to shoot the little .380's accurately, controllably, rapidly & effectively.

The primary reason I bought a Ruger LCP after I got rid of my last .380 about 25 years ago was the smaller overall size. I could clip it into some pants pockets in which I couldn't slip one of my 5-shot J-frames.

I'd watched a lot of our folks shoot various smallish .380's for quals, including the Bodyguard .380 & LCP, but it wasn't until I finally relented to a close friend's urging to try his LCP that I decided to get one of my own. Now, I carry it a surprising amount of the time.

I figured out the trigger within the first mag load, and experienced being able to make very small, tightly clustered, clover-leaf groups from 3-7 yds right away, and that was using 3 types of modern JHP loads (Speer GDHP, Ranger T-Series & Rem GS HPJ).

The little gun was amazing when it came to practical accuracy, even with the rudimentary iron sights (which reminded me of older J-frame sights).

I could make solid hits even when shooting-while-moving against standard size threat targets ranging from 7-10+ yds, too, and get respectable hits at further distances.

Now, would I rather have one of my 5-shot J's loaded with one of the better JHP +p loads? Sure. I like the heavier bullet weights available in the .38 +P loads.

Would I rather have the LCP instead of not being armed when running around town in really light clothes and hot weather? Absolutely.

Spare me the "comforting versus comfortable" spiel. I've carried a gun with a badge for 30 years, and have been a firearms instructor for more than 20 years, so I understand the meaning behind the comment (but also think any number of folks may be taking his comment out of context, at times, too).

Caliber? Yep, the .380 is on the lighter end of things for a dedicated defensive weapon.

Sure, improved ammunition has given us some better expanding options, but there's that TANSTAAFL issue ... meaning there's always going to be at one place where you have to choose where you're willing to compromise.

I'd rather have the LCP ... (or Bodyguard, but it's just enough larger than the LCP that I refrained, and I didn't want the added bulk of the integral laser) ... than another itty bitty .22 or .25, both of which I tried out as a young cop. Not keen on the .32, either, which is even smaller and lighter in caliber & bullet weight than the .380 ACP.

I'd much rather have one of my .357 Magnum, .45, .40 S&W or 9mm pistols than one of my .38's or my .380 ... but there are increasingly more times when I simply don't want to belt on a larger handgun anymore, or pocket-carry one of my subcompact Glock 9's/.40, my CS9, SW999c, CS45, etc.

The 5-shot .38 is a "better" compromise than the .380, and as a long time revolver shooter I do well enough with them ... but the LCP is another option I've found useful.

I've listened to a couple of officer safety/tactics, etc classes in the last year where there were any number of instances involving cops saving themselves with secondary/backup weapons chambered in both .38 Spl & .380 ACP. They're still doing the job, so to speak, which is probably why they're still authorized (or even issued) as secondary & off-duty weapons ... and nowadays we have better choices for guns chambered in both calibers, as well as the ammunition used in each.

Mindset - Awareness - Skillset - Experience - Training - Practice.

A lack of any of these arguably critical considerations isn't something that's necessarily going to be offset or remedied by "caliber".

Whenever someone wants to start some "spirited debate" at the range, or feels the need to denigrate the choice of another shooter, I remind them that the "proof of the matter" is often found demonstrated out at the firing line, when someone is performing one of the more demanding & difficult courses-of-fire.

You have to be able to make sound decisions ... using good judgment, drawing upon knowledge, training & experience ... act upon a decision ... use good skills & tactics ... and get a sufficient number of accurate & solid hits on the intended threat target(s). Everything else may be a distraction.

You see enough gunshot victims, "caliber" starts to take on a bit less importance.

Just my thoughts. I absolutely respect differing opinions of other folks, too. As an instructor, I work with the person, first & foremost. Their choice of gun/caliber is their choice ... unless it's a requirement/restriction, in which case it doesn't matter what either of us thing about it, right?

I guess I'll post this one ...
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Old 05-05-2013, 17:08   #70
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Originally Posted by dakrat View Post
nope, each post is different.

its quite entertaining to see you guys get it all in a wad.
Yeah...

Caliber Corner
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Old 05-05-2013, 18:08   #71
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Question: Have you ever worn a helmet or harness while driving a car?

I hear people throw this out there a lot, and so far the people doing so haven't had any idea what they were talking about.

* Helmets reduce visibility and your ability to hear. In a race car you generally aren't concerned with hearing anything unless it's through a headset you are wearing under the helmet (spotter/crew chief/whatever). Out on the road you are going to want to be able to hear other cars, horns, sirens of emergency vehicles, people's voices, etc. And visibility matters.

* One of the reasons passenger car seat belts are normally loose, and the tensioners only lock the belt up when the car senses the potential need (higher G forces from braking, turning, an impact, whatever) is that it is important to be able to lean forward, sideways, etc, so that you can look around when necessary.

All of that might very well make you less safe by increasing your chances of being involved in an accident, and might make other people less safe by increasing the chances that you run into them or pull out in front of them.



Driving on public roads and driving on a race track are two entirely different things

That was just one example. No I don't wear a helmet in my car. I don't wear one on a bike or horse even though I should. I do wear one on a motor cycle. My original point was that I believe the 380 is ok and in my situation and in most peoples the odds of using your gun are quite small and because of that I will no longer carry a big gun on a daily basis. I have heard people in this thread say people are ill informed or just plain dumb to carry a .380 or that they are girly guns. Gimmie a break, When I was younger very few states even had concealed carry and we survived just fine. I'm glad we have it now but I'm still not afraid to leave my house without a gun.
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Old 05-05-2013, 18:24   #72
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people assume a perfect scenario in their favor where a robber brings a baseball bat to a gunfight. sometimes it doesnt always turn out that way and you might find yourself exchanging fires. sometimes multiple thugs with firepower. goodluck with your 6 shooter wonder. prepare for the worst. bring enough gun to the fight. good enough is never enough.


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Old 05-05-2013, 18:29   #73
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Originally Posted by fg17 View Post
When I was younger very few states even had concealed carry and we survived just fine. I'm glad we have it now but I'm still not afraid to leave my house without a gun.
dont get the word "afraid" and "prepared" mixed up. theres a difference




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Old 05-05-2013, 18:32   #74
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Originally Posted by fastbolt View Post
I've drafted a post for this thread a few times, but always decided to delete it. maybe this one will get posted.

Anyway, the advantages of the diminutive .380's are few, with the primary ones being lighter weights & smaller sizes than most of the smallish 9's.

Disadvantages run longer, and mostly revolve around how much harder it is for many folks to shoot the little .380's accurately, controllably, rapidly & effectively.

The primary reason I bought a Ruger LCP after I got rid of my last .380 about 25 years ago was the smaller overall size. I could clip it into some pants pockets in which I couldn't slip one of my 5-shot J-frames.

I'd watched a lot of our folks shoot various smallish .380's for quals, including the Bodyguard .380 & LCP, but it wasn't until I finally relented to a close friend's urging to try his LCP that I decided to get one of my own. Now, I carry it a surprising amount of the time.

I figured out the trigger within the first mag load, and experienced being able to make very small, tightly clustered, clover-leaf groups from 3-7 yds right away, and that was using 3 types of modern JHP loads (Speer GDHP, Ranger T-Series & Rem GS HPJ).

The little gun was amazing when it came to practical accuracy, even with the rudimentary iron sights (which reminded me of older J-frame sights).

I could make solid hits even when shooting-while-moving against standard size threat targets ranging from 7-10+ yds, too, and get respectable hits at further distances.

Now, would I rather have one of my 5-shot J's loaded with one of the better JHP +p loads? Sure. I like the heavier bullet weights available in the .38 +P loads.

Would I rather have the LCP instead of not being armed when running around town in really light clothes and hot weather? Absolutely.

Spare me the "comforting versus comfortable" spiel. I've carried a gun with a badge for 30 years, and have been a firearms instructor for more than 20 years, so I understand the meaning behind the comment (but also think any number of folks may be taking his comment out of context, at times, too).

Caliber? Yep, the .380 is on the lighter end of things for a dedicated defensive weapon.

Sure, improved ammunition has given us some better expanding options, but there's that TANSTAAFL issue ... meaning there's always going to be at one place where you have to choose where you're willing to compromise.

I'd rather have the LCP ... (or Bodyguard, but it's just enough larger than the LCP that I refrained, and I didn't want the added bulk of the integral laser) ... than another itty bitty .22 or .25, both of which I tried out as a young cop. Not keen on the .32, either, which is even smaller and lighter in caliber & bullet weight than the .380 ACP.

I'd much rather have one of my .357 Magnum, .45, .40 S&W or 9mm pistols than one of my .38's or my .380 ... but there are increasingly more times when I simply don't want to belt on a larger handgun anymore, or pocket-carry one of my subcompact Glock 9's/.40, my CS9, SW999c, CS45, etc.

The 5-shot .38 is a "better" compromise than the .380, and as a long time revolver shooter I do well enough with them ... but the LCP is another option I've found useful.

I've listened to a couple of officer safety/tactics, etc classes in the last year where there were any number of instances involving cops saving themselves with secondary/backup weapons chambered in both .38 Spl & .380 ACP. They're still doing the job, so to speak, which is probably why they're still authorized (or even issued) as secondary & off-duty weapons ... and nowadays we have better choices for guns chambered in both calibers, as well as the ammunition used in each.

Mindset - Awareness - Skillset - Experience - Training - Practice.

A lack of any of these arguably critical considerations isn't something that's necessarily going to be offset or remedied by "caliber".

Whenever someone wants to start some "spirited debate" at the range, or feels the need to denigrate the choice of another shooter, I remind them that the "proof of the matter" is often found demonstrated out at the firing line, when someone is performing one of the more demanding & difficult courses-of-fire.

You have to be able to make sound decisions ... using good judgment, drawing upon knowledge, training & experience ... act upon a decision ... use good skills & tactics ... and get a sufficient number of accurate & solid hits on the intended threat target(s). Everything else may be a distraction.

You see enough gunshot victims, "caliber" starts to take on a bit less importance.

Just my thoughts. I absolutely respect differing opinions of other folks, too. As an instructor, I work with the person, first & foremost. Their choice of gun/caliber is their choice ... unless it's a requirement/restriction, in which case it doesn't matter what either of us thing about it, right?

I guess I'll post this one ...
Excellent post and I'm glad you finally decided to chime in. When I bought my LCP the only thing on my mind was its size and how well it functioned. At that time it was still cold outside and I carried it in my pocket or left it in the center console but still always had my PM40 on me as well. Now that it is starting to warm up, and since I let go of my KAHR in a trade on a gen4 19 the LCP will be my primary gun in summer clothes. Once it cools back down the 19 will go back on my belt but till then I feel like my LCP loaded with critical duty is sufficient enough. Again thank you for input.
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Old 05-05-2013, 18:32   #75
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Originally Posted by dakrat View Post
people assume a perfect scenario in their favor where a robber brings a baseball bat to a gunfight. sometimes it doesnt always turn out that way and you might find yourself exchanging fires. sometimes multiple thugs with firepower. goodluck with your 6 shooter wonder. prepare for the worst. bring enough gun to the fight. good enough is never enough.


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Old 05-05-2013, 18:37   #76
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dont get the word "afraid" and "prepared" mixed up. theres a difference




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Ok, But don't get the word "prepared" and "paranoid" mixed up.
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Old 05-05-2013, 19:03   #77
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...Now, would I rather have one of my 5-shot J's loaded with one of the better JHP +p loads? Sure. I like the heavier bullet weights available in the .38 +P loads...

I'm confused. So why not front pocket carry the J Frame? I'll assume you're not wearing Spandex pants.


I think an objective point is that many carry a gun to accommodate their style of dress and not vice versa, the latter being the better in theory. Sure, the easier road taken is one of comfort and few would dispute that. My only fear is that many are basing their decision on not what will work best for them, but rather what they feel will work best for them based upon a personal theory they have never tested and tempered with lots of perhaps misplaced faith in that they will never need to fire a shot in defense of life or in their ability alone to use proper shot placement to extricate themselves from a sticky situation. Perhaps they can. As for me, I've lived long enough to realize that I am a piss poor gambler and also that no scenario in life plays out like I want it to.
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Old 05-05-2013, 19:15   #78
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I've drafted a post for this thread a few times, but always decided to delete it. maybe this one will get posted.

Anyway, the advantages of the diminutive .380's are few, with the primary ones being lighter weights & smaller sizes than most of the smallish 9's.

Disadvantages run longer, and mostly revolve around how much harder it is for many folks to shoot the little .380's accurately, controllably, rapidly & effectively.

The primary reason I bought a Ruger LCP after I got rid of my last .380 about 25 years ago was the smaller overall size. I could clip it into some pants pockets in which I couldn't slip one of my 5-shot J-frames.

I'd watched a lot of our folks shoot various smallish .380's for quals, including the Bodyguard .380 & LCP, but it wasn't until I finally relented to a close friend's urging to try his LCP that I decided to get one of my own. Now, I carry it a surprising amount of the time.

I figured out the trigger within the first mag load, and experienced being able to make very small, tightly clustered, clover-leaf groups from 3-7 yds right away, and that was using 3 types of modern JHP loads (Speer GDHP, Ranger T-Series & Rem GS HPJ).

The little gun was amazing when it came to practical accuracy, even with the rudimentary iron sights (which reminded me of older J-frame sights).

I could make solid hits even when shooting-while-moving against standard size threat targets ranging from 7-10+ yds, too, and get respectable hits at further distances.

Now, would I rather have one of my 5-shot J's loaded with one of the better JHP +p loads? Sure. I like the heavier bullet weights available in the .38 +P loads.

Would I rather have the LCP instead of not being armed when running around town in really light clothes and hot weather? Absolutely.

Spare me the "comforting versus comfortable" spiel. I've carried a gun with a badge for 30 years, and have been a firearms instructor for more than 20 years, so I understand the meaning behind the comment (but also think any number of folks may be taking his comment out of context, at times, too).

Caliber? Yep, the .380 is on the lighter end of things for a dedicated defensive weapon.

Sure, improved ammunition has given us some better expanding options, but there's that TANSTAAFL issue ... meaning there's always going to be at one place where you have to choose where you're willing to compromise.

I'd rather have the LCP ... (or Bodyguard, but it's just enough larger than the LCP that I refrained, and I didn't want the added bulk of the integral laser) ... than another itty bitty .22 or .25, both of which I tried out as a young cop. Not keen on the .32, either, which is even smaller and lighter in caliber & bullet weight than the .380 ACP.

I'd much rather have one of my .357 Magnum, .45, .40 S&W or 9mm pistols than one of my .38's or my .380 ... but there are increasingly more times when I simply don't want to belt on a larger handgun anymore, or pocket-carry one of my subcompact Glock 9's/.40, my CS9, SW999c, CS45, etc.

The 5-shot .38 is a "better" compromise than the .380, and as a long time revolver shooter I do well enough with them ... but the LCP is another option I've found useful.

I've listened to a couple of officer safety/tactics, etc classes in the last year where there were any number of instances involving cops saving themselves with secondary/backup weapons chambered in both .38 Spl & .380 ACP. They're still doing the job, so to speak, which is probably why they're still authorized (or even issued) as secondary & off-duty weapons ... and nowadays we have better choices for guns chambered in both calibers, as well as the ammunition used in each.

Mindset - Awareness - Skillset - Experience - Training - Practice.

A lack of any of these arguably critical considerations isn't something that's necessarily going to be offset or remedied by "caliber".

Whenever someone wants to start some "spirited debate" at the range, or feels the need to denigrate the choice of another shooter, I remind them that the "proof of the matter" is often found demonstrated out at the firing line, when someone is performing one of the more demanding & difficult courses-of-fire.

You have to be able to make sound decisions ... using good judgment, drawing upon knowledge, training & experience ... act upon a decision ... use good skills & tactics ... and get a sufficient number of accurate & solid hits on the intended threat target(s). Everything else may be a distraction.

You see enough gunshot victims, "caliber" starts to take on a bit less importance.

Just my thoughts. I absolutely respect differing opinions of other folks, too. As an instructor, I work with the person, first & foremost. Their choice of gun/caliber is their choice ... unless it's a requirement/restriction, in which case it doesn't matter what either of us thing about it, right?

I guess I'll post this one ...
Nicely said with a good ring of reasonableness to it.

I know generally how the ballistics of .380 compare to bigger calibers, so one can't argue that the smaller gun is highly desirable in a shootout. Still, I believe my PPK and Sig .380 will influence some folks to leave me the hell alone in some situations and will put some serious hurt on anybody soaking up .380 bullets if I ever have to use it.

I've gravitated in the past year to a Kahr PW9 in 9mm for pocket carry, but there are times, like a long bike ride, when the smaller .380 fills the bill very nicely.
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Old 05-05-2013, 19:47   #79
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I don't care if they ban me... !

MY God don't ya get it ? .380 and below are not for SD ! Have none of you been in a real gun fight ? Have none of you ever been in bar brawls, or 'battle field', or bad news situuations?

I have, many times. a .380 is a POC, in these situations.

I am just a freaking voice here, but one with experience !

Shoot your BG with a .380. PO him, make him more angry !

This is a stupid discussion ! period ! A forum internet armchair bunch of BS....

Live it , do it , then come back and tell me how well your little mouse gun did. !


I could care less less who believes me or not, but I can tell you old boy's i have been in a dump load of senerio's and i would NOT be caught with a .380 auto to get out of them !


I really hesitate to give details on the internet.... Believe me or not. That is that !


Sorrry for being so harsh.... but my gosh, this is all ridiculous !



Get a caliber to use, and Stop worrrying about weight and recoil, and get something to help save your life ! There is NO magic caliber or hand gun, but the mouse guns are a freaking joke ! Wake up boys !



I'M A NICE GUY..... !







CanyonMan
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Old 05-05-2013, 19:51   #80
Joshhtn
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CanyonMan View Post
I don't care if they ban me... !

MY God don't ya get it ? .380 and below are not for SD ! Have none of you been in a real gun fight ? Have none of you ever been in bar brawls, or 'battle field', or bad news situuations?

I have, many times. a .380 is a POC, in these situations.

I am just a freaking voice here, but one with experience !

Shoot your BG with a .380. PO him, make him more angry !

This is a stupid discussion ! period ! A forum internet armchair bunch of BS....

Live it , do it , then come back and tell me how well your little mouse gun did. !


I could care less less who believes me or not, but I can tell you old boy's i have been in a dump load of senerio's and i would NOT be caught with a .380 auto to get out of them !


I really hesitate to give details on the internet.... Believe me or not. That is that !


Sorrry for being so harsh.... but my gosh, this is all ridiculous !



Get a caliber to use, and Stop worrrying about weight and recoil, and get something to help save your life ! There is NO magic caliber or hand gun, but the mouse guns are a freaking joke ! Wake up boys !



I'M A NICE GUY..... !







CanyonMan

What kind of real world 380 experience do you have?
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