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Old 05-12-2013, 18:18   #61
happyguy
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Originally Posted by Flintlocker View Post
I see, I guess we can add the Pentagon to the grand conspiracy.

If only the LTC and his team of 4 trainers, described as "not kitted for battle", had jumped on a Libyan cargo plane, flown hundreds of miles to Benghazi, strolled in to the CIA station being attacked by 100's of militants with RPG's, mortars, and small arms fire in the middle of the night, all of this would have been averted.

Or maybe SOCAFRICA had a good reason to say no.
If they had an attitude like yours they would be lucky if they tied their shoe laces.

Regards,
Happyguy
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Old 05-12-2013, 18:19   #62
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You really must love how Obama tastes. Sucking him like a junkie sucks a crack pipe.

Posted from my free Obamaphone
Didn't take long to find yourself reduced to pathetic ad hominems, now did it?
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Old 05-12-2013, 18:20   #63
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Pentagon spokesman who was sleeping in his bed in Virginia versus a twenty year veteran of the State Department who was on scene with the commander in question.

Hmmmm....who am I going to believe?

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Happyguy
Except of course there's an NMCC at the Pentagon that's staffed every single moment of the day, week, and year. Then there's the JOCs at every COCOM and service component commands, and SOCOM, and.......it goes on and on and on.
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Old 05-12-2013, 18:20   #64
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If they had an attitude like yours they would be lucky if they tied their shoe laces.

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Old 05-12-2013, 18:21   #65
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Is this DU troll day? It sure seems like it.
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Old 05-12-2013, 18:21   #66
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This stuff is easy to Monday morning quarterback but it's a lot more difficult when it's real and there are consequences to decisions and if someone doesn't have a clue as to what's going on, they aren't about sling missiles into crowds of people.
We had people on the ground. They had comm. We knew there were probably going to casualties and we left them to their own devices.

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Old 05-12-2013, 18:25   #67
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Except of course there's an NMCC at the Pentagon that's staffed every single moment of the day, week, and year. Then there's the JOCs at every COCOM and service component commands, and SOCOM, and.......it goes on and on and on.
And a spokesman who reads from the script he's handed.

I wasn't a policy maker when I was at the Pentagon, just a lowly AF security guy with a snubnose S&W Model 15 in an ankle holster, but I saw my share of politics and cya.

Regards,
Happyguy
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Old 05-12-2013, 18:28   #68
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Is this DU troll day? It sure seems like it.
That is both clever and original. You must be so proud.
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Old 05-12-2013, 18:28   #69
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We had people on the ground. They had comm. We knew there were probably going to casualties and we left them to their own devices.

Regards,
Happyguy
Comms with what and who,? The medevac crew that wasn't there? The TAC that didn't existed? The air QRF that didn't exist? Were these four guys running around going to be on a BFT feed?

What combat military experience do you have? This isn't the movies. You don't magically plop 4 guys down and expect everything to be solved.
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Old 05-12-2013, 18:30   #70
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And a spokesman who reads from the script he's handed.

I wasn't a policy maker when I was at the Pentagon, just a lowly AF security guy with a snubnose S&W Model 15 in an ankle holster, but I saw my share of politics and cya.

Regards,
Happyguy
Which means you don't know who staffs the NMCC.
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Old 05-12-2013, 18:31   #71
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Given the amount of attacks on US embassies and consulates in the Middle East and other conflict prone areas it quite frankly doesn't matter what Obama/the mil/State department did or didn't do when Benghazi was going down. Because the security for US sovereign soil and a duly sworn ambassador shouldn't have been so piss poor to begin with. That alone is a failure worth firing everyone with a hand in it. Any embassy or consulate in such areas should be able to withstand sustained assault until relief assets can arrive on site, and the DSS has been utterly failing in ensuring that this happens. I have never in my life seen more reports of diplomatic casualties under their watch than I have in the last few years, and preventing such things is their PRIMARY function.
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Old 05-12-2013, 18:36   #72
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That is both clever and original. You must be so proud.
In other words...yes, this is DU troll day. Thank you for confirming.
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Old 05-12-2013, 18:55   #73
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Comms with what and who,? The medevac crew that wasn't there? The TAC that didn't existed? The air QRF that didn't exist? We're these four guys running around going to on a BFT feed?

What military experience do you have? This isn't the movies. You don't magically plop 4 guys down and expect everything to be solved.
Interesting debating technique you have there.

It was a CIA post for ****sake. They could talk to anyone that cared to listen.

The NMCC didn't give authorization for movement of the spec ops team from Croatia until 0300 on the 12th.

The C17 that evacuated the first survivors didn't even get a warning order until 0600 on the 12th.

Considering we have tanker assets in Turkey the whole story about not having the ability to do aerial refuling for F16's from Aviano sound suspect to me also.

So why don't you tell us all who staffs the NMCC. Then we can stand in awe of your incredible ability to google Wikipedia entries.

Edit: Those four guys would have nearly doubled the number of SF guys that responded from six to ten. The fewer assets you have the more important each becomes.


Regards,
Happyguy

P.S. You are right about one thing though, you don't know anything about me.
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Old 05-12-2013, 19:10   #74
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Given the amount of attacks on US embassies and consulates in the Middle East and other conflict prone areas it quite frankly doesn't matter what Obama/the mil/State department did or didn't do when Benghazi was going down. Because the security for US sovereign soil and a duly sworn ambassador shouldn't have been so piss poor to begin with. That alone is a failure worth firing everyone with a hand in it. Any embassy or consulate in such areas should be able to withstand sustained assault until relief assets can arrive on site, and the DSS has been utterly failing in ensuring that this happens.
I agree. Force protection at he consulate was far too low and reliance on Libyan brigades was too high.

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I have never in my life seen more reports of diplomatic casualties under their watch than I have in the last few years, and preventing such things is their PRIMARY function.
That probably depends on how old you are. Reagan probably hold the dubious prize for Beirut in 83 depending on how you classify their mission in Lebanon. Clinton had Mogadishu and the African Embassy attacks. Bush had about a dozen embassy attacks from 2001-2009. And now Obama has Benghazi.
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Old 05-12-2013, 19:15   #75
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Happyguy: 1
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Flitlicker: Playing with itself.

Happyguy: Not playing your stupid game.

Regards,
Happyguy
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Old 05-12-2013, 19:15   #76
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Interesting debating technique you have there.

It was a CIA post for ****sake. They could talk to anyone that cared to listen.

The NMCC didn't give authorization for movement of the spec ops team from Croatia until 0300 on the 12th.

The C17 that evacuated the first survivors didn't even get a warning order until 0600 on the 12th.

Considering we have tanker assets in Turkey the whole story about not having the ability to do aerial refuling for F16's from Aviano sound suspect to me also.

So why don't you tell us all who staffs the NMCC. Then we can stand in awe of your incredible ability to google Wikipedia entries.


Regards,
Happyguy

P.S. You are right about one thing, you don't know anything about me.
I could care less about you to be quite honest. It's a forum FFS.

I don't need to google the NMCC-- it's called experience. But based upon your comment, you really don't know who staffs it. I'll help--- National Military Command Center. It's not a bunch of guys in ties who them go in front of podiums to give press conferences.

The CIA can't communicate with anybody they want whenever they want. Some things require coordination. Simple stuff like, what comms platform?

A medevac consists of a helicopter, crew and a flight medic. They then take you to a MTF. From there you get transported on FW to a RMC. But you knew all that, right? So the fact a C-17 arrived (too late in your opinion), is pointless. You don't push guys into combat without a plan to get them out.

I don't know what tankers were where. But an F-16 needs fuel and lots of it. Maybe the tankers in Turkey were weathered out, or were aligned against flying sorties to gas planes doing missions elsewhere. But I'm trying to imagine what we are asking the 27 yr old Captain flying the Viper. "Hey, no one knows what's going on. There's no JTAC either. But make it happen". Oh, and we don't have a good idea on the AD threat so don't fly below 20,000 AGL". What could possibly go wrong?
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Old 05-12-2013, 19:27   #77
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I could care less about you to be quite honest. It's a forum FFS.

I don't need to google the NMCC-- it's called experience. But based upon your comment, you really don't know who staffs it. I'll help--- National Military Command Center.


It's not a bunch of guys in ties who them go in front of podiums to give press conferences.

Thank you for illustrating my point for me.

The CIA can't communicate with anybody they want whenever they want. Some things require coordination. Simple stuff like, what comms platform?

A medevac consists of a helicopter, crew and a flight medic. They then take you to a MTF. From there you get transported on FW to a RMC. But you knew all that, right? So the fact a C-17 arrived (too late in your opinion), is pointless. You don't push guys into combat without a plan to get them out.

I don't know what tankers were where. But an F-16 needs fuel and lots of it. Maybe the tankers in Turkey were weathered out, or were aligned against flying sorties to gas planes doing missions elsewhere. But I'm trying to imagine what we are asking the 27 yr old Captain flying the Viper. "Hey, no one knows what's going on. There's no JTAC either. But make it happen". Oh, and we don't have a good idea on the AD threat so don't fly below 20,000 AGL". What could possibly go wrong?
Ferry range of an F16 is 2000 miles. Distance from Aviano to Bengazhi is about 1000 miles. From Bengazhi to Incirlic is about 1300 miles. All refueling could have been done over the med.

And why do you keep droning on about a medevac?

And why does everyone have this preoccupation with special forces? There are security forces at every AFB and transport aircraft come and go at every one of them as well.

It's bad enough that it happened at all.

What's shameful is no one has the balls to step up and say "I made the call." mainly because the man that should have been making the call was getting his beauty rest before a tough fund raiser.

Regards,
Happyguy
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Old 05-12-2013, 19:28   #78
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Given the amount of attacks on US embassies and consulates in the Middle East and other conflict prone areas it quite frankly doesn't matter what Obama/the mil/State department did or didn't do when Benghazi was going down. Because the security for US sovereign soil and a duly sworn ambassador shouldn't have been so piss poor to begin with. That alone is a failure worth firing everyone with a hand in it. Any embassy or consulate in such areas should be able to withstand sustained assault until relief assets can arrive on site, and the DSS has been utterly failing in ensuring that this happens. I have never in my life seen more reports of diplomatic casualties under their watch than I have in the last few years, and preventing such things is their PRIMARY function.
Agreed. Seems like a no brainer for any facilities in that region. That doesn't mean every facility can be 100% safe, but the impression I have is this one was nearly completely undefended. I wonder how accurate my impression is, but its woefully inadequate if correct.

Randy
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Old 05-12-2013, 19:31   #79
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Ferry range of an F16 is 2000 miles. Distance from Aviano to Bengazhi is about 1000 miles. From Bengazhi to Incirlic is about 1300 miles. All refueling could have been done over the med.

And why do you keep droning on about a medevac?

Regards,
Happyguy
Halo drops from F16 out of Aviano... now there's a military solution.
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Old 05-12-2013, 19:37   #80
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Didn't take long to find yourself reduced to pathetic ad hominems, now did it?

Hahaha. Looks like you proved your Dear Leader wrong


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Try not failing so hard next time you start speaking out of your arse.
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... they make their money by winding you up and sending you off on emotional tirades.
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Good lord, you can't be this dumb, can you?

So after you start calling out your hallucinations of lies and doing your little victory dance, you're going to try to make it a matter of semantics? Yeah, I guess you're that dumb.

.
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And here comes the peanut gallery. Just to make it clear, for you or any other dunderheads that might be confused.
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And here I was thinking you could read all on your lonesome. .
when it comes to the "Ad Homs" you did build it by yourself.


Typical liberal. Oh, by the way, you used the term "hypocrites" and then you say,

"Didn't take long to find yourself reduced to pathetic ad hominems, now did it?"





You started out with them.

Last edited by countrygun; 05-12-2013 at 19:38..
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