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Old 05-12-2013, 21:23   #101
countrygun
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Originally Posted by DonGlock26 View Post
Gates is out of the loop, but CBS used him to protect Obama and released his statements early, it appears.
And Dear leaders true believers regurgitate his uninformed statements based on reports fed to the media by the same people that said it was all a spontaneous protest over a video.

Yes, they sure are an enlightened and well informed bunch, aren't they?
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Old 05-12-2013, 21:46   #102
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Oh, this has to be repeated so certain people don't miss it.


"BTW- I watched the Gates interview on CBS. He started off by saying that he only knows what he read in the paper!"
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Originally Posted by DonGlock26 View Post
Gates is out of the loop, but CBS used him to protect Obama and released his statements early, it appears.

Like I said this morning as I was watching it.... Who bought Gates?.... That was rediculous... Gates was a joke... an old joke.

http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/show....php?t=1486674

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Old 05-12-2013, 21:56   #103
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Like I said this morning as I was watching it.... Who bought Gates?.... That was rediculous... Gates was a joke... an old joke.

http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/show....php?t=1486674

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You can't even spell "ridiculous". Where do you stand against a former CIA director and Secretary of Defense.

Last edited by Flintlocker; 05-12-2013 at 22:04..
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Old 05-12-2013, 22:04   #104
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You can't even spell ridiculous.
Well you can kiss my *** ... if I could spell it.

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Old 05-12-2013, 22:10   #105
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You truly are a mindless twit.

Oh shoot, was that an Ad Hominem?

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Its not ad hom if its true, and its true....
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Old 05-13-2013, 00:07   #106
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Well you can kiss my *** ... if I could spell it.

Doc44
You know, Obama boi would LOVE to do that.
And I'm not talking about spelling.

Posted from my free Obamaphone

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Old 05-13-2013, 04:08   #107
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Did we not have carriers in the Med?
Seems that they would have been a lot closer, if they were indeed there.

It is hard to dig up definitive info on this but best I can tell there was no carrier strike group anywhere near the Med.

http://beldar.blogs.com/beldarblog/2...an-shores.html

I think there may have been one or two destroyers operating in the med but aside from lobbing some missiles into the area I don't know what they could have done.

Gates and Boykin can certainly have their opinions but neither knew the military capabilities which could have been effectively deployed during the attack.

To me the biggest scandals were
- the incredible lack of preparation and security in dealing with potential attacks on our assets in Libya,
- the question of what the CIA was doing in Benghazi in the first place that made it so important for the Ambassador to go into that dangerous area on that day with inadequate security,
- the outright lies and cover ups in the aftermath from the White House and State Department.

Whether a more forceful response during the attacks was or was not possible, given the lack of preparation and foresight, is a question I would like explored more fully but I cannot make a judgment on whether an effective military intervention was or was not feasible.
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Old 05-13-2013, 04:51   #108
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Ferry range of an F16 is 2000 miles. Distance from Aviano to Bengazhi is about 1000 miles. From Bengazhi to Incirlic is about 1300 miles. All refueling could have been done over the med.

And why do you keep droning on about a medevac?

And why does everyone have this preoccupation with special forces? There are security forces at every AFB and transport aircraft come and go at every one of them as well.

It's bad enough that it happened at all.

What's shameful is no one has the balls to step up and say "I made the call." mainly because the man that should have been making the call was getting his beauty rest before a tough fund raiser.

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The reason I keep bringing up a medevac is because of how we operate in the Army. We don't put Soldiers in harms way without a plan to assist them when they are injured. We abide by the golden hour. We incorporate medevacs into our training. You don't ask an individual to risk their life without ensuring you are doing everything possible to ensure you mitigate that possibility.

AF Security personnel are not prepared to deal with those types of situations in the least. You'd be sending them to their deaths if you thought they could C2 themselves in that environment. They are great Americans but that's not what they do. They are not equipped nor are they trained in the necessary tactical skills to deal with a problem that complex.

The major breakdown was that this happened at all. What intelligence was missed and why was it missed? Or why didn't the Ambassador and embassy take measures to reduce their risk to violence. If nothing else, an important anniversary (9-11) was about to occur. Additionally, if I understand the story, the Ambassador had security concerns. If so, why did he increase his own risk by being at a consulate? It doesn't sound like he made the best decision.

I know it's easy to get up in arms over additional forces being denied. But if that's the new standard to have Congressional inquiries, then we are in for a ride. On my first tour to Afghanistan, we had a laundry list of request for forces (RFF) denied. Those RFFs also cover equipment. Why were they denied? Either the forces or equipment weren't available. Now, there were US forces back in the states that were not in Iraq. There was an aircraft carrier sitting back in the US going through maintenance and so were the F-18s that could have filled our air support needs. Since those RFFs were denied, does that mean we can blame every death after that RFF denial and pin it on someone? I would argue no. Just because something is somewhere doesn't mean it's available to use. So even though I cannot wait for another election, I still have a hard time understanding the hearings and there's a big part of me that thinks this is only political theater. I certainly don't remember hearing after Secretary Rumsfeld said, "You don't go to war with the Army you wish you had. You go to war with the Army you have." Now that comment makes sense. However, when IEDs were beginning to be the major cause of Soldier deaths, that wasn't the best response to give when the question was about armored Humvees.

In any event, when things started going south, there was nothing the US was going to do to stop it. It was already too late.
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Old 05-13-2013, 07:28   #109
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One member of the quick reaction force died at the CIA compound.

Try not failing so hard next time you start speaking out of your arse.
Every word you type just explains more and more how Obama got elected in the first place.
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Old 05-13-2013, 07:40   #110
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Every word you type just explains more and more how Obama got elected in the first place.

What's that sound we hear on this thread every time Lintlicker writes a reply?
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Old 05-13-2013, 09:04   #111
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Some folks must be driving a tanker/s,they'll need them for all the water they are carrying for the one.'08.
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Old 05-15-2013, 09:43   #112
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http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/...e_one_guy.html

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The price to save Hambleton was astounding: 11 rescue forces were killed, six of them within his sight. Two more became POWs. 5 aircraft were shot down and others badly damaged. Scores of allied South Vietnamese forces died in related combat actions.

Hambleton, who died in 2004, assessed their sacrifices thusly: "I had to stand by and watch six young men die trying to save my life. It was a hell of a price to pay for one life. I'm very sorry"


Read more: http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/...#ixzz2TNPYniVo
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Old 05-15-2013, 10:13   #113
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Yeah, back when I was Fire Fighter, when someone needed help at the edge of our response area we'd wake up and say... Sorry, we might not make it in time, we might as well not bother. It's kinda far...

If I was on the bus and fire broke out, well, it's not like there is any water on this thing, I might as well not show up. It's not like I could get close by and wait for another unit to arrive and join up with them.

Lets take the four guys. Why not fly them into position at the airport? What harm could come from that? Better to stage an asset a few miles away and not use them than keep them hours away and definitely out of the fight.

It's not like they couldn't have taken a day or two break from training locals. That is just one example though, if it were just this one thing, maybe let it go. It wasn't. It was a systematic denial.

Does anyone actually expect us to believe that our military is so inept that they can't move in less than a day? That individual members or teams are so incompetent they can't come together with little to no notice to fight a bunch of untrained, rag-tag, idiots running in circles?

Call me crazy but I can't agree that our military sucks as bad as some make it out to. Be they bureaucrats in DC or people posting on internet forums.
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Old 05-15-2013, 11:19   #114
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BTW- I watched the Gates interview on CBS. He started off by saying that he only knows what he read in the paper!



If the paper Gates was reading is the NY Times, WaPo, or USA Today, then he already knew that Obama walks on water, is the greatest president in history (WORLD history, not U.S. history), and is close to figuring out how to turn base metal into gold... Political Issues


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Old 05-15-2013, 12:08   #115
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Originally Posted by DonGlock26 View Post
Addressing the article:

Lie, the ready force was ordered to stand down.



We attacked Libya with air power in 2011 and flew planes in and out of Libya as a matter of routine.


Ok, we don't send in any air support because why?


Yeah, that's what rapid response teams do.

You don't always have time to plan raid, when you are responding to a surprise enemy attack. This hack is simply trying to protect the administration.

FEST, pulled from the state.gov archives (2000-2009)
Quote:
Political IssuesForeign Emergency Support Team (FEST)

The Foreign Emergency Support Team is the United States Government's only interagency, on-call, short-notice team poised to respond to terrorist incidents worldwide. Led and trained by the Operations Directorate of the Office of the Coordinator for Counterterrorism, it assists U.S. missions and host governments in responding quickly and effectively to terrorist attacks. The FEST, which has deployed to over 20 countries since its inception in 1986, leaves for an incident site within four hours of notification, providing the fastest assistance possible.
The FEST provides round-the-clock advice and assistance to Ambassadors and foreign governments facing crisis. The Team is comprised of seasoned experts from the Department of State, FBI, Department of Defense, Department of Energy, and the Intelligence Community. Once on the scene, FEST members help Ambassadors assess the emergency, advise on how best to respond, and assist in managing consequent operations. FEST provides:
  • Seasoned crisis management expertise
  • Time-sensitive information and intelligence
  • Planning for contingency operations
  • Hostage negotiating expertise
  • Reach-back to Washington agencies
Political IssuesFEST Assists in the Aftermath of East Africa Bombings
Two Foreign Emergency Support Teams were deployed to Kenya and Tanzania immediately following the August 1998 al-Qaeda terrorist bombings of US Embassies in Nairobi and Dar es Salaam. The FESTs helped assess both emergencies and aided US Ambassadors as they managed the aftermath of the attacks, which killed some 300 (including 12 Americans) and injured more than 5000.
Political IssuesFEST Responds to USS Cole Bombing
A Foreign Emergency Support Team was deployed to Aden, Yemen following a terrorist attack against the USS Cole, which killed 17 American sailors in October 2000. The FEST advised the US ambassador and helped her direct America's response to the attack. FEST's secure mobile communications capability was especially valuable, since the Port of Aden is some 200 miles from the American Embassy in Sanaa.

Smaller, "tailored" FESTs have responded to abductions of Americans in Ecuador and the Philippines. "Contingency" FESTs were deployed to ensure safety at the Olympic Games in Athens, Greece (Summer 2004) and Turin, Italy (Winter 2006), and in Lagos, Nigeria during a hostage-taking crisis.
In addition to the above activities, the FEST routinely provides veteran diplomatic and interagency experts to national counterterrorism exercises, such as TOPOFF.
These are not professional trigger pullers. The FEST team is more like a glorified door to door salesman. They come in after the incident and tell you what America can or can not do to support in the aftermath.

Activating and sending this type of team into an active fight with the hopes that something would actually be accomplished would have been like activating Boy Scout Troop 614 and sending them in to conduct the rescue. Would you end up with a few more people on the ground when you aren't sure whats going on? Yes. Would you see the names of the people you sent in the newspaper the following day because they died shortly after they arrived on the scene? Yes.
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Old 05-15-2013, 13:06   #116
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I guess we will never know.'08.
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Old 05-15-2013, 14:49   #117
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Funny how a bunch of peaceful Muslim protesters suddenly become more invincible than all of our special forces put together... That must be one hell of a video.

****, with a rubber dinghy, and a couple sets of swim floaties, they could take out the entire U.S. 6th Fleet!

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Old 05-15-2013, 16:54   #118
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Funny how a bunch of peaceful Muslim protesters suddenly become more invincible than all of our special forces put together... That must be one hell of a video.

****, with a rubber dinghy, and a couple sets of swim floaties, they could take out the entire U.S. 6th Fleet!

The issue comes from people having an over-inflated idea about or military capabilities. Artyman hit on it a bit. The required foot print in the region to insert, support, and then extract any team large enough to safely execute the job was not there.

You need to look no farther than Operation Restore Hope. That in itself is a good example but further, Shuhart and Gordon's actions within the battle of Mogadishu again show what happens when a small team is insterted into a situation were there is a lack of support in place for them.
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Old 05-15-2013, 18:09   #119
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The issue comes from people having an over-inflated idea about or military capabilities. Artyman hit on it a bit. The required foot print in the region to insert, support, and then extract any team large enough to safely execute the job was not there.

You need to look no farther than Operation Restore Hope. That in itself is a good example but further, Shuhart and Gordon's actions within the battle of Mogadishu again show what happens when a small team is insterted into a situation were there is a lack of support in place for them.
There is a problem with you narrative as it relates to this story.

Everyone in the white House is denying ever discussing the possibility. And if we didn't have the ability to back them up (and I think you are wrong) then why were they denied additional security in the first place? Oh , wait, Hillary is claiming she never got the memo.

So the story thus far is that the WH knew so little about the situation that they didn't know additional security had been requested. The WH also was so ignorant as to think that the whole thing was just a spontaneous demonstration over a video, BUT this WH WAS so well informed they knew that there was nothing they could do for those Americans screaming for help.

Basically your argument for the situation happening was because the White House was ignorant and your excuse for no rescue attempt was because the White House was so well informed,. They didn't have enough information to prevent it or judge the events but they had enough information to justify not doing a ^*&ed thing.

I smell the overwhelming odor of mendacity.
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Old 05-15-2013, 18:35   #120
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There is a problem with you narrative as it relates to this story.

Everyone in the white House is denying ever discussing the possibility. And if we didn't have the ability to back them up (and I think you are wrong) then why were they denied additional security in the first place? Oh , wait, Hillary is claiming she never got the memo.

So the story thus far is that the WH knew so little about the situation that they didn't know additional security had been requested. The WH also was so ignorant as to think that the whole thing was just a spontaneous demonstration over a video, BUT this WH WAS so well informed they knew that there was nothing they could do for those Americans screaming for help.

Basically your argument for the situation happening was because the White House was ignorant and your excuse for no rescue attempt was because the White House was so well informed,. They didn't have enough information to prevent it or judge the events but they had enough information to justify not doing a ^*&ed thing.

I smell the overwhelming odor of mendacity.

Yup...The parts don't equal the whole.


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