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Old 06-11-2013, 18:58   #26
wrenrj1
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I'll stick to the Ruger Manual. the pistol isn't that expensive, as you pointed out, however I prefer not to be on the back end when it decides to fail eb07. There's plenty of ammo choices out there other than BB.
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Old 06-11-2013, 22:35   #27
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I carry it in my P380. Loud as hell, and functions reliably.
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Old 06-12-2013, 12:25   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wrenrj1 View Post
I'll stick to the Ruger Manual. the pistol isn't that expensive, as you pointed out, however I prefer not to be on the back end when it decides to fail eb07. There's plenty of ammo choices out there other than BB.
I agree with you. There are Glocks, Sigs, H&Ks, etc ... that shoot any and all ammo without any problems. The danger is a person who owns a top quality firearm may be lulled into running "hot" ammo through a less-than-top-quality firearm that may result in compromising the design integrity that isn't readily apparent.

The fear of a catastrophic weapons failure during a potential life-or-death encounter isn't one I want, even if the odds might be low.
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Old 06-12-2013, 13:51   #29
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Originally Posted by eb07 View Post
It's a sub 300 handgun. Just buy another. I shot that much in ammo last weekend.
Medical bills to repair a hand from a KB costs a lot more than $300.


I was going to run some of their 100gr std pressure hard cast until I got to fully develop my own 115gr and hardcast loads. But I decided to stick with the 90gr XTP until they are done. To buy enough boxes of BB to do a reliability test would be a waste for me at this point.

Last edited by dkf; 06-12-2013 at 13:53..
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Old 06-12-2013, 15:07   #30
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Medical bills to repair a hand from a KB costs a lot more than $300.
.

Can you document the related cases of buffalo bore users and KB's? How many people have shot buffalo bore compared to the ones who had a KB. How much did it cost? Can you cite some cases? I would like to know how real this new perceived threat is.

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Old 06-12-2013, 18:32   #31
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Can you document the related cases of buffalo bore users and KB's? How many people have shot buffalo bore compared to the ones who had a KB. How much did it cost? Can you cite some cases? I would like to know how real this new perceived threat is.
The Ruger manual says not to do it, that's good enough for me. You know that desiccant that you find in new clothes, electronics, etc. It says "DO NOT EAT" They don't keep stats on how many people actually read the warning and actually eat them. They assume people heed the warning and don't need stats to back up their claim...
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Old 06-12-2013, 19:18   #32
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Can you document the related cases of buffalo bore users and KB's? How many people have shot buffalo bore compared to the ones who had a KB. How much did it cost? Can you cite some cases? I would like to know how real this new perceived threat is.
It has nothing to do with Buffalo Bore. It has to do with using max loads and in a gun not designed to shoot those max loads.(LCP) Both factors that greatly increase the chances of a KB. It is obvious you are clueless as to what harm has happened in past cases and can be done to the shooter when a gun KBs. Keep your head in the sand, some people are bright enough to know better.

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Old 06-12-2013, 19:32   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wrenrj1 View Post
The Ruger manual says not to do it, that's good enough for me. You know that desiccant that you find in new clothes, electronics, etc. It says "DO NOT EAT" They don't keep stats on how many people actually read the warning and actually eat them. They assume people heed the warning and don't need stats to back up their claim...
You're not supposed to eat those??
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Old 06-12-2013, 20:07   #34
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Shoot BB Hard Cast thru my LCP, no issues, normal recoil and no damage to gun
Carry the HC and HP's staggered in the mag.
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Old 06-12-2013, 20:10   #35
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It has nothing to do with Buffalo Bore. It has to do with using max loads and in a gun not designed to shoot those max loads.(LCP) Both factors that greatly increase the chances of a KB. It is obvious you are clueless as to what harm has happened in past cases and can be done to the shooter when a gun KBs. Keep your head in the sand, some people are bright enough to know better.
Ahhh the old faithful follow the lawyers advice even though most loads today are watered down compared to days gone by defense. With some slight rage due to not having any data to support your wild claims. Throw in some intelligence posturing for a complete fail. Classic. Life is tough. Wear a helmet.

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Old 06-12-2013, 20:27   #36
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Ahhh the old faithful follow the lawyers advice even though most loads today are watered down compared to days gone by defense. With some slight rage due to not having any data to support your wild claims. Throw in some intelligence posturing for a complete fail. Classic. Life is tough. Wear a helmet.
Read post #7.

http://rugerpistolforums.com/forums/...taingator.html

The guy at BB says his loads are around the 25k psi mark which is well over SAAMI specified max. Guess what happens if you get a slight out of battery fire, bullet setback, weak case, slight overcharge and etc? Then couple that with large unsupported area at the feed ramp and relatively loose chamber on the LCP.(not to mention how thick he chamber walls are)

It is obvious you have no remote idea what you are talking about. So stop trying to BS everyone into thinking you do. Your blathering is a dead giveaway.

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Old 06-12-2013, 20:39   #37
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Make sure they run well in your gun! They did not work well in my LCP, but it may have just been my box of bullets (see below story)

I bought a box of the BB 380 +P GDHP in 2009, never finished shooting them out of my LCP. About every other round would jam the pistol (failure to extract), even with a firm grip. The recoil was vicious. I quit after about 4 rounds. Went home and cleaned the pistol, tried 3-4 rounds another day. Same result. Up to that point I (and others) had shot about 400 rounds through this gun of various brands (Blazer, PMC, Tula, Winchester, Federal Hydrashok, Etc.) with NO malfunctions. Since then there has probably been another 200-300 rounds (i.e. the pistol functions well with normal ammunition).

I came to the conclusion that my batch of ammo was out of spec., after all my gun shoots everything else fine and many others report no problems with Buffalo Bore in their LCP. Sent a kind e-mail to Tim Sundles, who couldn't believe that it could possibly be his ammo. I exchanged a few more e-mails then decided to cut my losses.
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Old 06-12-2013, 21:21   #38
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I've heard... I've put a magazine of it through my LCP at the range for function, and that's all I really plan to run... Unless I need it.

I don't see a box worth of the stuff doing any damage to my gun.
Same here, I shot around 50 rounds of BB to make sure there were no issues and just carry it. I practice with American Eagle ball.
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Old 06-12-2013, 22:30   #39
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The only Buffalo Bore 380 round guaranteed to penetrate reliably is the Flat Nose in hard cast or FMJ. 380 JHPs that expand don't meet the FBI minimum protocol for penetraton. For this reason, the owner of Buffalo Bore admits he uses flat nose rounds in his 380, and only sells JHPs in 380 because the public asks for it.

The beauty? Those flat nose loads penetrate in excess of FBI specs at standard pressure. You don't need +p with those rounds.

The answer seems obvious, doesn't it? Shoot standard pressure flat nose. It's good for your LCP. And it's the best self-defense option currently available.
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Old 06-12-2013, 22:34   #40
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The only Buffalo Bore 380 round guaranteed to penetrate reliably is the Flat Nose in hard cast or FMJ. 380 JHPs that expand don't meet the FBI minimum protocol for penetraton. For this reason, the owner of Buffalo Bore admits he uses flat nose rounds in his 380, and only sells JHPs in 380 because the public asks for it.

The beauty? Those flat nose loads penetrate in excess of FBI specs at standard pressure. You don't need +p with those rounds.

The answer seems obvious, doesn't it? Shoot standard pressure flat nose. It's good for your LCP. And it's the best self-defense option currently available.
I'm not even going to touch what all is wrong with this post.
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Old 06-12-2013, 22:55   #41
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anybody carry Buffalo Bore 380 +P ammo in your Ruger LCP of Kel Tec 380 and how do you like it? ..........
Runs fine through my P3AT, not exactly a hand full but sure makes that little pistol jump.
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Old 06-14-2013, 14:28   #42
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I'm not even going to touch what all is wrong with this post.
Arguably, certain JHP 380s penetrate sufficiently while expanding just a little. But no JHP 380s that expand a bunch penetrate to FBI minimum standards.

Here's what Buffalo Bore owner Tim Sundles had to say in a Q&A posted at Extreme-Impact-Ammo.com

Question #871: In your article concerning expanding bullets in sub-caliber guns (like .380) you state that you never carry an expanding bullet in a .380. With your new Buffalo-Barnes .380 copper JHP, do you think it performs well enough to overcome the limitations you described? Would you still recommend sticking with the flat nose .380 bullet? I have a Kahr P380. Please advise.

A: Until all humans weigh under 100 lbs and never wear anything heavier than a tee shirt, I won't change my recommendation on the 380 auto ammo for defense against humans. We only make expanding loads for the 380 because folks want them and that includes the Barnes load. Take care.

Quite an admission from a bullet salesman who charges 20% more for Barnes bullets than he does for flat nose.
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Old 06-14-2013, 15:02   #43
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A: Until all humans weigh under 100 lbs and never wear anything heavier than a tee shirt, I won't change my recommendation on the 380 auto ammo for defense against humans. We only make expanding loads for the 380 because folks want them and that includes the Barnes load. Take care.
You're right in my opinion, CR. If I still owned a .380ACP I'd carry the standard pressure BB hard cast flat nose round, or one equivalent to it.
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Old 06-14-2013, 15:09   #44
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Agree. On the rare occasions I carry my P238, it's with 2 mags of BB 100gr hard cast +p. Velocity is ~1080 fps out of that gun.
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Old 06-14-2013, 16:28   #45
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I like the BB hardcast load, but where the BB Barnes load may under penetrate, the hardcast over penetrates... Your looking at approximately 10" (ballistic gel) with the HP & over 20" with the hardcast... I would much rather have the 20"+, but in a crowded area, that could spell real trouble.
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Old 06-14-2013, 16:49   #46
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I like the BB hardcast load, but where the BB Barnes load may under penetrate, the hardcast over penetrates... Your looking at approximately 10" (ballistic gel) with the HP & over 20" with the hardcast... I would much rather have the 20"+, but in a crowded area, that could spell real trouble.
I think your line of reasoning applies particularly well to +p flat nose rounds. I have seen those penetrate 30+ inches in ballistics gel.

If you go back and read the FBI paper at page 11, it says 12 inches is the minimum but "penetration up to 18" is preferable."

So personally, I'm really not concernced about overpenetration from standard pressure flat nose. The tests I have seen usually show 16-22" of penetration.

With regard to bystander safety, I am far more concerned about bullet placement. Studies have shown that 50-85% of all rounds fired by police (depending on which department is surveyed) MISS THEIR TARGET.

These missed shots pose infinitely more threat to bystanders than flat nose rounds that penetrate 22".
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Old 06-14-2013, 17:10   #47
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Originally Posted by CougarRed View Post
I think your line of reasoning applies particularly well to +p flat nose rounds. I have seen those penetrate 30+ inches in ballistics gel.

If you go back and read the FBI paper at page 11, it says 12 inches is the minimum but "penetration up to 18" is preferable."

So personally, I'm really not concernced about overpenetration from standard pressure flat nose. The tests I have seen usually show 16-22" of penetration.

With regard to bystander safety, I am far more concerned about bullet placement. Studies have shown that 50-85% of all rounds fired by police (depending on which department is surveyed) MISS THEIR TARGET.

These missed shots pose infinitely more threat to bystanders than flat nose rounds that penetrate 22".
Good post.
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Old 06-16-2013, 02:16   #48
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With all the great ultra compact single stack 9x19mm pistols on the market, why attempt to make the .380 do something it can't do and was never designed to do? If you want 9x19 ballistics, get a 9x19.

I'll never understand the .380 crowd.




Sorry!
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Old 06-16-2013, 06:58   #49
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With all the great ultra compact single stack 9x19mm pistols on the market, why attempt to make the .380 do something it can't do and was never designed to do? If you want 9x19 ballistics, get a 9x19.

I'll never understand the .380 crowd.




Sorry!


There are countless "380 vs" threads... Go there with your "this is better than that" crap.

I'll never understand some people.
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Old 06-16-2013, 09:37   #50
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With all the great ultra compact single stack 9x19mm pistols on the market, why attempt to make the .380 do something it can't do and was never designed to do? If you want 9x19 ballistics, get a 9x19.

I'll never understand the .380 crowd.
I used to feel that way. Until I realized I wasn't carrying my great ultra compact 9 everyday. Too heavy for the pocket when fully loaded.

So I bought an LCP and a wallet holster. Now I am always gunned when I can't or don't want to carry my great ultra compact 9mm IWB or Kangaroo.
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