Home Forums Classifieds Blogs Today's Posts Search Social Groups



  
SIGN-UP
Notices

Glock Talk
Welcome To The Glock Talk Forums.

 
  
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 06-12-2013, 12:13   #21
PuroMexicano
VIVA MEXICO !!!
 
PuroMexicano's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Monterrey, Mexico
Posts: 4,650
Quote:
Originally Posted by AZ Husker View Post
True. But if you spray me with an expired can my attorney will eat you for lunch.
I'll spray him too.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by PuroMexicano
I DO NOT condone illegal immigration, I've said it time and time again.
Quote:
I once didn't kill a mountain lion by hand when it tried to stare me down...once.
Quote:
Politicians should serve two terms, one in office and one in prison.:rofl::rofl:
PuroMexicano is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-12-2013, 12:21   #22
MW2001
Senior Member
 
MW2001's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: MN
Posts: 197
Quote:
Originally Posted by txleapd View Post
I may be dense, but how does an expired can create liability in and of itself? It's my understanding the expiration is only to insure the propellant can shoot the OC the proper distance.

I could understand if I went to spray you and a fireball of hornets shot out, but if it still works as advertised? What would the tort claim be?

That's like saying I shot you with an "expired" bullet.
We had an incident last summer where a guy was sprayed (Freeze +P) with expired chemical. Guy ended up with chemical burns on his face and sued. City ended up paying out $250k.
__________________
Never trouble another for what you can do yourself.
-Thomas Jefferson
MW2001 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-12-2013, 12:47   #23
cowboywannabe
you savvy?
 
cowboywannabe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: on a planet near you
Posts: 22,051
Quote:
Originally Posted by MW2001 View Post
We had an incident last summer where a guy was sprayed (Freeze +P) with expired chemical. Guy ended up with chemical burns on his face and sued. City ended up paying out $250k.
he will be broken in a year but still ugly and stupid.
__________________
with Sarah Jane, Leela, Romana, Nyssa, and Tegan.

Facts are no match against enthusiasm and ignorance...
cowboywannabe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-12-2013, 13:00   #24
blueiron
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 13,602
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bushido5150 View Post
Sometimes I really hate what this country has become....
Eliminate the word - "Sometimes" for me.
blueiron is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-12-2013, 14:26   #25
ranger1968
Senior Member
 
ranger1968's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 2,572
Quote:
Originally Posted by AZ Husker View Post
In my Arizona dept we changed them out every two years, way before the expiration date. The heat here would cause them to slowly lose their propellant. Think of the liabilities if you DIDN'T trade before the expiration date and had to use it. Those departments trying to save a few bucks would pay dearly with a civil attorney.



In what way? because the officer was injured?
ranger1968 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06-12-2013, 15:30   #26
txleapd
Hook 'Em Up
 
txleapd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: TX
Posts: 6,230
Quote:
Originally Posted by MW2001 View Post
We had an incident last summer where a guy was sprayed (Freeze +P) with expired chemical. Guy ended up with chemical burns on his face and sued. City ended up paying out $250k.
It's my understanding that Freeze +P contains a mixture of OC and CS. That may have have been a factor, and its not exactly the same as pepper (OC) spray.


Posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire
__________________
1911 Club #75
Kahr Club #286
Lone Star Glockers #919


"A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity” Sigmund Freud
txleapd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-12-2013, 15:33   #27
txleapd
Hook 'Em Up
 
txleapd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: TX
Posts: 6,230
Quote:
Originally Posted by scottydl View Post
As an OC instructor (Sabre Red), I would not recommend using expired OC at all. Buy your own new can if your department won't replace it and you ever plan to use it.
I've got plenty that's not expired, and I don't carry that can. I'm just keeping it around to occasionally test the effectiveness of expired OC spray.




Posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire
__________________
1911 Club #75
Kahr Club #286
Lone Star Glockers #919


"A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity” Sigmund Freud
txleapd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-13-2013, 02:32   #28
Pepper45
Senior Member
 
Pepper45's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 2,501
Quote:
Originally Posted by PuroMexicano View Post
I'll spray him too.
I now have Diet Dr. Pepper in my laptop because of you.

P.S. It burns coming through the nose.
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 signatures.
Pepper45 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-13-2013, 08:00   #29
scottydl
Senior Member
 
scottydl's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: The Middle
Posts: 2,157
Quote:
Originally Posted by MW2001 View Post
We had an incident last summer where a guy was sprayed (Freeze +P) with expired chemical. Guy ended up with chemical burns on his face and sued. City ended up paying out $250k.
Sounds like a settlement to me. That doesn't mean the officer was in the wrong, if it never went to trial and a scientific explanation was provided.

This is a reason that I would also recommend Sabre Red to any department (and no I'm not getting paid for this endorsement). It is pure OC, made with red pepper extracts and no chemicals. "All natural" per se. No chemical burns would be possible, regardless of the canister age. However, the "hypodermic needle" effect still applies - where the stream of fluid can break the skin if the spray is deployed too close. 3 feet minimum for small handheld canisters, 6 feet for a party can.
scottydl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-13-2013, 08:48   #30
PuroMexicano
VIVA MEXICO !!!
 
PuroMexicano's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Monterrey, Mexico
Posts: 4,650
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pepper45 View Post
I now have Diet Dr. Pepper in my laptop because of you.

P.S. It burns coming through the nose.
Don't sue me or I'll spray your lawyer with dr pepper too.


Posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by PuroMexicano
I DO NOT condone illegal immigration, I've said it time and time again.
Quote:
I once didn't kill a mountain lion by hand when it tried to stare me down...once.
Quote:
Politicians should serve two terms, one in office and one in prison.:rofl::rofl:

Last edited by PuroMexicano; 06-13-2013 at 09:34..
PuroMexicano is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-15-2013, 14:55   #31
capnjim01
Senior Member
 
capnjim01's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: north carolina
Posts: 2,592
Quote:
Originally Posted by countrygun View Post
Think about it. If some guy took a swing at you and you busted him in the snotlocker wouldn't it be a real good idea to get your version on paper in the role of victim, before he did?

The actual law may vary from State to State, although I haven't hear of a State that requires it, but the laws of common sense are pretty universal in the US.
I'd file assault charges on the drunk just to be safe, if he files first it's your word against his.
capnjim01 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-15-2013, 17:46   #32
TBO
CLM Number 122
Why so serious?
 
TBO's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: NRA Life Member
Posts: 46,426
Blog Entries: 1


1. This is not GNG
2. Everyone is welcome here.
3. If you are going to reply to a post here, leave your GNG posts outside.

In other words, if you don't know (factual basis, relevant training/experience) what you're talking about, don't talk. Leave you random thoughts out.
Let the people with actual real world experience (the ones asked the question) answer.

It's just good manners.

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk 4 Beta
__________________
"Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing had happened."

"If you have integrity, nothing else matters. If you don't have integrity, nothing else matters".

"A person who won't reason has no advantage over one who can't reason."

"Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored."

“Ignorance is a lot like alcohol: the more you have of it, the less you are able to see its effect on you.”


Originally Posted by Rooster Rugburn:
Didn't the whole sheepdog thing actually start right here on Glock Talk? A bunch of wannabees bought a bunch of T-shirts and took an oath to defend those who won't defend themselves?
TBO is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-15-2013, 19:02   #33
DaBigBR
No Infidels!
 
DaBigBR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Circling the wagons.
Posts: 15,924
Quote:
Originally Posted by scottydl View Post
Sounds like a settlement to me. That doesn't mean the officer was in the wrong, if it never went to trial and a scientific explanation was provided.

This is a reason that I would also recommend Sabre Red to any department (and no I'm not getting paid for this endorsement). It is pure OC, made with red pepper extracts and no chemicals. "All natural" per se. No chemical burns would be possible, regardless of the canister age. However, the "hypodermic needle" effect still applies - where the stream of fluid can break the skin if the spray is deployed too close. 3 feet minimum for small handheld canisters, 6 feet for a party can.
What about the propellant? (I have no idea)
__________________
"Logic is rarely the engine that propels a police department forward."

-David Simon in "Homicide"
DaBigBR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-15-2013, 22:36   #34
scottydl
Senior Member
 
scottydl's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: The Middle
Posts: 2,157
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaBigBR View Post
What about the propellant? (I have no idea)
Neither do I, honestly. I'd have to check with someone from the Sabre Red manufacturing side. But I can only assume the expiration dates are there for a good reason. Profit (by making departments to replace their spray) doesn't seem to be a high likelihood, since the canisters fairly inexpensive and are rated for 3-5 years on average. If Sabre wanted to make more money on phony expiration, they'd probably say you should replace the canister every 6 months or something.
scottydl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-16-2013, 14:19   #35
DaBigBR
No Infidels!
 
DaBigBR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Circling the wagons.
Posts: 15,924
Quote:
Originally Posted by scottydl View Post
Neither do I, honestly. I'd have to check with someone from the Sabre Red manufacturing side. But I can only assume the expiration dates are there for a good reason. Profit (by making departments to replace their spray) doesn't seem to be a high likelihood, since the canisters fairly inexpensive and are rated for 3-5 years on average. If Sabre wanted to make more money on phony expiration, they'd probably say you should replace the canister every 6 months or something.
My question was more as to whether or not the propellant was "natural". I suspect that it is not. I also suspect that marketing Sabre as "natural" is a marketing ploy above all else. At least part of the logic behind expiration, as discussed earlier in the thread, is that the rubber O-ring seals in a can of OC may fail over time.
__________________
"Logic is rarely the engine that propels a police department forward."

-David Simon in "Homicide"
DaBigBR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-16-2013, 16:07   #36
scottydl
Senior Member
 
scottydl's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: The Middle
Posts: 2,157
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaBigBR View Post
My question was more as to whether or not the propellant was "natural". I suspect that it is not. I also suspect that marketing Sabre as "natural" is a marketing ploy above all else. At least part of the logic behind expiration, as discussed earlier in the thread, is that the rubber O-ring seals in a can of OC may fail over time.
Ah ok. The instructor course showed several different real-world tests of Sabre Red vs. other sprays. It certainly seems much safer than others, as far as chemical content (or lack thereof) is concerned.

O-rings could certainly be a problem. Follow the manufacturer expiration dates and replace accordingly.
scottydl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-22-2013, 05:18   #37
scottydl
Senior Member
 
scottydl's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: The Middle
Posts: 2,157
I contacted Sabre through my instructor channels, and received this reply from them regarding Sabre Red propellant and expiration:

Quote:
We use two propellants- Nitrogen and HFC134. The only other chemical is the OC. The HFC134 is a liquid and though it mixes with the OC it is non-toxic. Nitrogen is the propellant for the Crossfire series and is a gas – it does not blend with the OC.

When the cans expire they lose pressure and the pepper may begin to decay. So they won’t spray properly and may not be as effective. We are an EPA establishment- all of our formulations are non-toxic and do not contain carcinogens, unlike many of our competitors.
FYI for anyone wondering.
scottydl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-22-2013, 10:30   #38
countrygun
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 17,068
Quote:
Originally Posted by scottydl View Post
I contacted Sabre through my instructor channels, and received this reply from them regarding Sabre Red propellant and expiration:



FYI for anyone wondering.
Ohhh,

"all of our formulations are non-toxic and do not contain carcinogens, unlike many of our competitors."

I cant figure out why, but that somehow amuses me.
countrygun is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-22-2013, 10:50   #39
u n v kenny
Senior Member
 
u n v kenny's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Florida
Posts: 317
Send a message via AIM to u n v kenny
Most departments (if a LEO) will exchange approximately five (5) years or older from date on can. Dents and scrapes are okay as well, as long as it's not punctured.
__________________
Glock Armorer
u n v kenny is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-22-2013, 12:22   #40
scottydl
Senior Member
 
scottydl's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: The Middle
Posts: 2,157
Quote:
Originally Posted by countrygun View Post
Ohhh,

"all of our formulations are non-toxic and do not contain carcinogens, unlike many of our competitors."

I cant figure out why, but that somehow amuses me.
It's just one of their selling points. I mean they have to compete for law enforcement business just like any other product. Some of the product tests they show in the instructor course are pretty interesting... other OC sprays catching on fire, melting styrofoam cups, stuff like that.
scottydl is offline   Reply With Quote

 
  
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump




All times are GMT -6. The time now is 04:13.




Homepage
FAQ
Forums
Calendar
Advertise
Gallery
GT Wiki
GT Blogs
Social Groups
Classifieds


Users Currently Online: 640
146 Members
494 Guests

Most users ever online: 2,672
Aug 11, 2014 at 2:31