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Old 06-13-2013, 17:49   #21
cowboywannabe
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This may hurt, but why do you feel that you are supposed to be their friend? You are now a leader and it is your job to mentor and coach the willing, yet kick the tails of the slackers into performing to at least the dep't. mean standard.
yes, i know this, ive been a sgt for four years. we are a small department and i worked with them when i was a patrolman as well. the problem came about a month ago when the command decided to swap folks around. i recommended those with chemistry stay together as they feed off of each other and work well like they had mental telepathy.... well the command mixed it up to dilute the shifts so there were strong officers on each shift. the problem is there are not enough to go around and starting in june i got the one shift full of slugs. ive dealt with the one officer whom needed prodding before but never an entire shift. im at a loss for any remedy other than showing them myself what is expected, giving them their laundry list after that, then writing up the slackers.

P.S. im done *****ing....just had to get that out. cant dump it on the wife and cant dump it on the command. guess that makes GT is my dumping ground...LOL
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Last edited by cowboywannabe; 06-13-2013 at 19:04..
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Old 06-13-2013, 19:00   #22
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Then you know what to do. Set the example yourself and then woe be to anyone who won't make an effort to keep up.
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Old 06-13-2013, 19:19   #23
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not here. the slugs have to be lead around by the hand. but that will happen for just a short time before the write ups start coming from me. i refuse to baby sit adults. they will conform on their own or they will get paper.
Good for you.

Around here, that would get you tarred and feathered as a Sergeant.
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Old 06-13-2013, 19:37   #24
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how about you other guys?

if you have go getters on your shift they require little managing and you can actually be a leader. if you have slugs on your shift you get jumped on because of their low activity.

every month its something......

im left with my only option is to run the shift like a military outfit. all the required activities will be done before any freelancing. serving probation warrants, doing traffic "safety" check points...all that j*** before any self initiated activity.

im forced into this style of rule because the go getters on my shift rotated to days last month and all i have is old timer slugs and a new rookie who is in his 50s. if i dont lead them around by the nose ring they wont do **** and i get jumped on for the over all shift activity being low.

what do you guys do when you have a shift full of slugs? if i dont lead them around and force them to conform i will end up sending them home for insubordination along with the subsequent punishment to follow. i can no longer be their friend, i must be the authoritarian as theyve taken advantage of my letting them have free rein.

its either that or take a demotion back to patrolman....which ive already asked h.r. about....

i didnt know J A Z Z was a filter word...
A "go getter" can still be a huge supervisory issue when they think they know it all, have 20 years or experience in their 5 year career and want to make a name for themselves. I know, I had one of those on a squad several years ago that I had to deal with. I would prefer a mature, confident officer who knows his job and will go out and do what needs to be done instead of one looking to make his mark and bring in high arrest/ticket numbers.

Your officers need to know that you respect and value them. They need to know what standards you expect of them and the consequences for not meeting your standard. They need to know that if they go out and do what you expect, you have their backs and will support them.

Management is getting others to do what you need them to, leadership is getting them to want to do it for you. Be a supervisor, not a babysitter. Cracking down like a military outfit on experienced, senior officers will only cause resentment and blowback. Have one on one meetings, ask their career goals, explain your expectations. Attempting to force grown men (cops especially) to conform or try an authoritarian style of leadership will never work as you want.

Change can be done with enough patience
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Old 06-13-2013, 19:42   #25
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im 45 and the youngest on the shift by two years.

im left with no choice but to be a dick. they can either shut up and be lead by the nose like children, take it upon themselves to do the required activities to the point where i believe they will do so without my kicking them in the ass to do so. any lip and im going to start sending them home and submitting the insubordination papers up the chain.

im pissed off as hell right now thinking about the bind theyve put me in. you give them a badge, a gun, and the authority to take away somebody's liberty and all they do is drive around waiting for a call. no call, no activity. hell they wouldnt be doing business checks if they didnt get free ****ing coffee at the gas stations.
This makes me believe there is a larger, institutional problem in your agency.

It sounds as though your admin is being authoritarian and using discipline to force you to make change.

If you have these feelings, think what will happen if you treat your subordinates that way
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Old 06-13-2013, 19:45   #26
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not here. the slugs have to be lead around by the hand. but that will happen for just a short time before the write ups start coming from me. i refuse to baby sit adults. they will conform on their own or they will get paper.
They will only conform with leadership.

I think it msy have been said already, and no offense, but it appears that you were not fully ready or prepared to take on the challenges of leadership
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Old 06-13-2013, 19:58   #27
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shifts rotate, patrolmen rotate one month different than sgts. i get a different group every two months. my go getters rotated out a month ago. they were the ones i worked with, leaded, and accomplished things with. assignments are sector/zone assignments, no special programs going on.

the current group needs to be baby sat, and ive done that long enough and i am at witts end. i can no longer be their friend, hammer time has come.
Bad schedule. No way to establsh a supervisor/subordinate role when there is constant personnel rotating.

Being their friend stopped when you accepted chevrons on you sleeve. "Hammertime" will turn you into the guy that nobody wants to work for.

Being a Sergeant can be a difficult position. Not yet admin, but no longer one of the guys. Done right, it can be very rewarding though. I often miss my squad and times as a Patrol Sergeant. I visit their patrol briefings often just to touch base wi "my guys" , always before notifying their current boss though so I'm not stepping on any toes.
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Old 06-13-2013, 20:00   #28
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yes, i know this, ive been a sgt for four years. we are a small department and i worked with them when i was a patrolman as well. the problem came about a month ago when the command decided to swap folks around. i recommended those with chemistry stay together as they feed off of each other and work well like they had mental telepathy.... well the command mixed it up to dilute the shifts so there were strong officers on each shift. the problem is there are not enough to go around and starting in june i got the one shift full of slugs. ive dealt with the one officer whom needed prodding before but never an entire shift. im at a loss for any remedy other than showing them myself what is expected, giving them their laundry list after that, then writing up the slackers.

P.S. im done *****ing....just had to get that out. cant dump it on the wife and cant dump it on the command. guess that makes GT is my dumping ground...LOL
Just saw this one. It's a bad spot to be in. Best of luck to you.
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Old 06-13-2013, 20:55   #29
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A "go getter" can still be a huge supervisory issue when they think they know it all, have 20 years or experience in their 5 year career and want to make a name for themselves. I know, I had one of those on a squad several years ago that I had to deal with. I would prefer a mature, confident officer who knows his job and will go out and do what needs to be done instead of one looking to make his mark and bring in high arrest/ticket numbers.

Your officers need to know that you respect and value them. They need to know what standards you expect of them and the consequences for not meeting your standard. They need to know that if they go out and do what you expect, you have their backs and will support them.

Management is getting others to do what you need them to, leadership is getting them to want to do it for you. Be a supervisor, not a babysitter. Cracking down like a military outfit on experienced, senior officers will only cause resentment and blowback. Have one on one meetings, ask their career goals, explain your expectations. Attempting to force grown men (cops especially) to conform or try an authoritarian style of leadership will never work as you want.

Change can be done with enough patience
Bingo. Saved me lots of typing.
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Old 06-13-2013, 21:19   #30
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I can't add much to this. I will say it will be a royal pain in the butt to have the shift you're working on fixing going to another supervisor who may change things on you. Next time you get the shift it might be better or worse. Another possibility is the admin might realize they screwed up when they see how bad the crew is doing with other supervisors(I doubt it, but I still like to engage in optimism once in a while). Have you talked to the supervisor who is going to get the shift next? Might help to work with the next person to get ideas and let them know.
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Old 06-13-2013, 23:05   #31
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My first thing when I do admin training is, "You know your friends and coworkers you left behind when you promoted? Well, you ain't got no friends no more. The faster you get comfortable with that concept, the easier it will be to do your job."

Now, I don't mean be an ******* to everyone and be a typical admin pogue jerkoff, but you have to draw the line and you do what you got to do to get your job done which is to lead and and hold people accountable.
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Old 06-14-2013, 00:40   #32
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My first thing when I do admin training is, "You know your friends and coworkers you left behind when you promoted? Well, you ain't got no friends no more. The faster you get comfortable with that concept, the easier it will be to do your job."

Now, I don't mean be an ******* to everyone and be a typical admin pogue jerkoff, but you have to draw the line and you do what you got to do to get your job done which is to lead and and hold people accountable.
This. Tell them what is expected of them. Show them how to do it. Participate with them, and inform them of the importance of the projects. If they start to flake it off, go back and reiterate to everyone the importance of the project, and this time, ensure that they know there are consequences to inaction. Then follow through, all the while giving encouragement and praise to anyone who shows any signs of life, and actually makes an attempt.
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Old 06-14-2013, 00:47   #33
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You must have done something right.
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Old 06-14-2013, 07:55   #34
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Will the people you don't like eventually rotate out of your purview? If so, why do you give a ****? Ride it out and dream of welcoming back your golden boys in short order.

You didn't create the problem. You won't change anything, so why beat your head on that wall? They outnumber you, they've got seniority (as in time) over you, they aren't impressed by your pretty little chevrons, and the harder you try to make their lives miserable pursuing a bunch of nonsense goals and objectives concocted by your department's admin weenies, the more difficult they actually will make your life.

You always have a choice when it comes to being a dick to your subordinates.
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Old 06-14-2013, 10:11   #35
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..snip.. I also like the idea of posting the stats so all can see who is productive and who isn't.
One of the overlapping shifts complained on my shift once that we were a bunch of slackers and didn't do anything. The Sgt at the time decided to post the stats, calls for service, traffic stops, tickets, FIs, arrests, reports, accident reports.

When they posted the stats, my shift had blown the other one out of the water by a 2-3:1 factor. It stopped their complaining about productivity pretty quickly. And of course my shift had a few slackers, but posting it publicly actually motivated some of them to not be the bottom person.

As to the motivation of the slugs... First off, you aren't their friend, you're their supervisor. Praise in public, reprimand in private. I know one of the big sayings around here is "I can't fix in 15 minutes what you took 15 years to screw up." It's basically the same thing. The supervisors for the slugs have screwed the pooch for years and you can't fix it immediately. It'll take time and patience. Not saying that you can't write them up, but just realize that they have been lazy for years and its not going to happen overnight.
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Old 06-14-2013, 11:48   #36
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Will the people you don't like eventually rotate out of your purview? If so, why do you give a ****? Ride it out and dream of welcoming back your golden boys in short order.

Sorry, but this is nonfeasance.

He has the professional duty and obligation to remediate the situation and salvage his assigned employees. Failing to act decisively would make him morally and professionally worse than the slacking employees. He obviously gives a damn about being a good supervisor.
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Old 06-14-2013, 11:52   #37
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Sorry, but this is nonfeasance.

He has the professional duty and obligation to remediate the situation and salvage his assigned employees. Failing to act decisively would make him morally and professionally worse than the slacking employees. He obviously gives a damn about being a good supervisor.
This; he has a duty to maintain a standard; to do otherwise would be unethical.

As far as the constant rotation of personnel, that's a poor organizational strategy that benefits no one, makes everyone unhappy generally, and takes away from team/shift unity, since you're getting a new supervisor every few months....it's an unstable environment.
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Old 06-14-2013, 12:05   #38
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This; he has a duty to maintain a standard; to do otherwise would be unethical.

As far as the constant rotation of personnel, that's a poor organizational strategy that benefits no one, makes everyone unhappy generally, and takes away from team/shift unity, since you're getting a new supervisor every few months....it's an unstable environment.
you cant tell that to some people....ive tried.
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Old 06-14-2013, 12:39   #39
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you cant tell that to some people....ive tried.
Sometimes it's not enough to tell them; perhaps , in a supervisory meeting setting, you could bring it up, and get feed back from other supervisors (of course, you would have ALREADY talked to these guys, this would just be reinforcement) as to the ill effects of the rotational system; then you could suggest a survey or a committee or something equally executive- palatable; lots of research on sleep deprivation from a rotational schedule, loss of productivity, safety issues, etc...; a lot of the time, once faced with numbers on the almighty sheet of paper, the folks in charge suddenly have a great idea, and decide to change things; as long as it's their idea......
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Old 06-14-2013, 14:25   #40
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Im NOT a supervisor so this is just my 2 cents: I saw this sudden laziness that took place at my last dept because of a change in procedure. The guys sat on their asses to rebel against what they saw as a problem from above. They were wrong for doing it, but they got straight after their minds changed about the situation, not paper.
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