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Old 06-13-2013, 19:45   #26
Officer X
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not here. the slugs have to be lead around by the hand. but that will happen for just a short time before the write ups start coming from me. i refuse to baby sit adults. they will conform on their own or they will get paper.
They will only conform with leadership.

I think it msy have been said already, and no offense, but it appears that you were not fully ready or prepared to take on the challenges of leadership
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Old 06-13-2013, 19:58   #27
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shifts rotate, patrolmen rotate one month different than sgts. i get a different group every two months. my go getters rotated out a month ago. they were the ones i worked with, leaded, and accomplished things with. assignments are sector/zone assignments, no special programs going on.

the current group needs to be baby sat, and ive done that long enough and i am at witts end. i can no longer be their friend, hammer time has come.
Bad schedule. No way to establsh a supervisor/subordinate role when there is constant personnel rotating.

Being their friend stopped when you accepted chevrons on you sleeve. "Hammertime" will turn you into the guy that nobody wants to work for.

Being a Sergeant can be a difficult position. Not yet admin, but no longer one of the guys. Done right, it can be very rewarding though. I often miss my squad and times as a Patrol Sergeant. I visit their patrol briefings often just to touch base wi "my guys" , always before notifying their current boss though so I'm not stepping on any toes.
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Old 06-13-2013, 20:00   #28
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yes, i know this, ive been a sgt for four years. we are a small department and i worked with them when i was a patrolman as well. the problem came about a month ago when the command decided to swap folks around. i recommended those with chemistry stay together as they feed off of each other and work well like they had mental telepathy.... well the command mixed it up to dilute the shifts so there were strong officers on each shift. the problem is there are not enough to go around and starting in june i got the one shift full of slugs. ive dealt with the one officer whom needed prodding before but never an entire shift. im at a loss for any remedy other than showing them myself what is expected, giving them their laundry list after that, then writing up the slackers.

P.S. im done *****ing....just had to get that out. cant dump it on the wife and cant dump it on the command. guess that makes GT is my dumping ground...LOL
Just saw this one. It's a bad spot to be in. Best of luck to you.
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Old 06-13-2013, 20:55   #29
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A "go getter" can still be a huge supervisory issue when they think they know it all, have 20 years or experience in their 5 year career and want to make a name for themselves. I know, I had one of those on a squad several years ago that I had to deal with. I would prefer a mature, confident officer who knows his job and will go out and do what needs to be done instead of one looking to make his mark and bring in high arrest/ticket numbers.

Your officers need to know that you respect and value them. They need to know what standards you expect of them and the consequences for not meeting your standard. They need to know that if they go out and do what you expect, you have their backs and will support them.

Management is getting others to do what you need them to, leadership is getting them to want to do it for you. Be a supervisor, not a babysitter. Cracking down like a military outfit on experienced, senior officers will only cause resentment and blowback. Have one on one meetings, ask their career goals, explain your expectations. Attempting to force grown men (cops especially) to conform or try an authoritarian style of leadership will never work as you want.

Change can be done with enough patience
Bingo. Saved me lots of typing.
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Old 06-13-2013, 21:19   #30
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I can't add much to this. I will say it will be a royal pain in the butt to have the shift you're working on fixing going to another supervisor who may change things on you. Next time you get the shift it might be better or worse. Another possibility is the admin might realize they screwed up when they see how bad the crew is doing with other supervisors(I doubt it, but I still like to engage in optimism once in a while). Have you talked to the supervisor who is going to get the shift next? Might help to work with the next person to get ideas and let them know.
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Old 06-13-2013, 23:05   #31
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My first thing when I do admin training is, "You know your friends and coworkers you left behind when you promoted? Well, you ain't got no friends no more. The faster you get comfortable with that concept, the easier it will be to do your job."

Now, I don't mean be an ******* to everyone and be a typical admin pogue jerkoff, but you have to draw the line and you do what you got to do to get your job done which is to lead and and hold people accountable.
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Old 06-14-2013, 00:40   #32
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My first thing when I do admin training is, "You know your friends and coworkers you left behind when you promoted? Well, you ain't got no friends no more. The faster you get comfortable with that concept, the easier it will be to do your job."

Now, I don't mean be an ******* to everyone and be a typical admin pogue jerkoff, but you have to draw the line and you do what you got to do to get your job done which is to lead and and hold people accountable.
This. Tell them what is expected of them. Show them how to do it. Participate with them, and inform them of the importance of the projects. If they start to flake it off, go back and reiterate to everyone the importance of the project, and this time, ensure that they know there are consequences to inaction. Then follow through, all the while giving encouragement and praise to anyone who shows any signs of life, and actually makes an attempt.
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Old 06-14-2013, 00:47   #33
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You must have done something right.
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Old 06-14-2013, 07:55   #34
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Will the people you don't like eventually rotate out of your purview? If so, why do you give a ****? Ride it out and dream of welcoming back your golden boys in short order.

You didn't create the problem. You won't change anything, so why beat your head on that wall? They outnumber you, they've got seniority (as in time) over you, they aren't impressed by your pretty little chevrons, and the harder you try to make their lives miserable pursuing a bunch of nonsense goals and objectives concocted by your department's admin weenies, the more difficult they actually will make your life.

You always have a choice when it comes to being a dick to your subordinates.
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Old 06-14-2013, 10:11   #35
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..snip.. I also like the idea of posting the stats so all can see who is productive and who isn't.
One of the overlapping shifts complained on my shift once that we were a bunch of slackers and didn't do anything. The Sgt at the time decided to post the stats, calls for service, traffic stops, tickets, FIs, arrests, reports, accident reports.

When they posted the stats, my shift had blown the other one out of the water by a 2-3:1 factor. It stopped their complaining about productivity pretty quickly. And of course my shift had a few slackers, but posting it publicly actually motivated some of them to not be the bottom person.

As to the motivation of the slugs... First off, you aren't their friend, you're their supervisor. Praise in public, reprimand in private. I know one of the big sayings around here is "I can't fix in 15 minutes what you took 15 years to screw up." It's basically the same thing. The supervisors for the slugs have screwed the pooch for years and you can't fix it immediately. It'll take time and patience. Not saying that you can't write them up, but just realize that they have been lazy for years and its not going to happen overnight.
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Old 06-14-2013, 11:48   #36
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Will the people you don't like eventually rotate out of your purview? If so, why do you give a ****? Ride it out and dream of welcoming back your golden boys in short order.

Sorry, but this is nonfeasance.

He has the professional duty and obligation to remediate the situation and salvage his assigned employees. Failing to act decisively would make him morally and professionally worse than the slacking employees. He obviously gives a damn about being a good supervisor.
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Old 06-14-2013, 11:52   #37
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Sorry, but this is nonfeasance.

He has the professional duty and obligation to remediate the situation and salvage his assigned employees. Failing to act decisively would make him morally and professionally worse than the slacking employees. He obviously gives a damn about being a good supervisor.
This; he has a duty to maintain a standard; to do otherwise would be unethical.

As far as the constant rotation of personnel, that's a poor organizational strategy that benefits no one, makes everyone unhappy generally, and takes away from team/shift unity, since you're getting a new supervisor every few months....it's an unstable environment.
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Old 06-14-2013, 12:05   #38
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This; he has a duty to maintain a standard; to do otherwise would be unethical.

As far as the constant rotation of personnel, that's a poor organizational strategy that benefits no one, makes everyone unhappy generally, and takes away from team/shift unity, since you're getting a new supervisor every few months....it's an unstable environment.
you cant tell that to some people....ive tried.
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Old 06-14-2013, 12:39   #39
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you cant tell that to some people....ive tried.
Sometimes it's not enough to tell them; perhaps , in a supervisory meeting setting, you could bring it up, and get feed back from other supervisors (of course, you would have ALREADY talked to these guys, this would just be reinforcement) as to the ill effects of the rotational system; then you could suggest a survey or a committee or something equally executive- palatable; lots of research on sleep deprivation from a rotational schedule, loss of productivity, safety issues, etc...; a lot of the time, once faced with numbers on the almighty sheet of paper, the folks in charge suddenly have a great idea, and decide to change things; as long as it's their idea......
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Old 06-14-2013, 14:25   #40
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Im NOT a supervisor so this is just my 2 cents: I saw this sudden laziness that took place at my last dept because of a change in procedure. The guys sat on their asses to rebel against what they saw as a problem from above. They were wrong for doing it, but they got straight after their minds changed about the situation, not paper.
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Old 06-14-2013, 14:32   #41
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Sorry, but this is nonfeasance.

He has the professional duty and obligation to remediate the situation and salvage his assigned employees. Failing to act decisively would make him morally and professionally worse than the slacking employees. He obviously gives a damn about being a good supervisor.
This; What you permit, you promote.

I also had another thought on your situation. You are the new boss, and younger than every one on your shift. I believe they are testing you. Where is the line? What will he allow us to get away with?

I think to one degree or another this is universal...

Last edited by BL33D 4 M3; 06-14-2013 at 14:35..
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Old 06-14-2013, 16:29   #42
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I feel for you, been there myself. You say you have been a Sgt. for four years so you know the drill then. The department decided to mix things up with this rotation for exactly the reason you are seeing, this group you are dealing with. I think you are doing the right thing, just hang in there. It takes years to get comfortable as a boss, it is a big change, especially if you are supervising the guys you were working with.I don't know anything about your agency, but when I ran up against this type of squad, I had the toughest cases work one on one with me, put a young go-getter in their place, or sometimes just sat them down and laid it all out. I don't know your people so you have to decide.
I will tell you this. Venting here is a good thing. Don't take it home. Don't take a demotion. I came home days thinking the same thing. I stuck it out and had 12 great years as a supervisor. Hang in there bud, it will get better. Good Luck!
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Old 06-15-2013, 00:45   #43
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From what I have seen is that as you move up in title or food chain the fewer friends you can have but I would make sure to cover your own six and then stop worrying about their ages. Good luck.
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Old 06-15-2013, 06:33   #44
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i sent them dept. e-mails thursday night.......last night (friday) they vented a bit and i told them to get all their **** in one sock and this was non negotiable.... seems to have work so far.... they actually snapped to, but im waiting to see if they slide back down after a while.
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Old 06-15-2013, 08:22   #45
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Years ago I tried the "pissed off" supervisor approach with some slugs. It didn't work.

The bottom line in my situation was, some of my aces got transferred off the squad and got replaced by slugs. The slugs brought down the rest of the squad's morale, and productivity suffered. My squad went from number one in the station to last.

What I did to combat the problem was to lead by example. I sent my patrol supervisor, a young and active guy, out with a mission to produce results. I went out from time to time whenever I could and came back with bodies. I don't like to get involved because it takes away my ability to supervise others who may need it at the time, but we lead by example and it helped. I have had senior officers not want to go out to some hairy calls, believe it or not. I told them to stay in the station and I started suiting up to go out on it. This got them moving, Lol.

All this having been said, some guys are just plain tough to motivate. As has been said earlier by others, if you try to crack the whip on senior officers they will just rebel. The best way to handle it in my opinion is to treat them like senior men and lead by example.

The best of luck, my friend. I have been there and I feel your pain.
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Old 06-15-2013, 09:31   #46
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Can I get a clarification please? You said you'd been a sgt for 4 years, and that officers are rotated every 2 months. Is this the first time you've had these officers under you? How did you handle them before?
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Old 06-15-2013, 10:25   #47
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Can I get a clarification please? You said you'd been a sgt for 4 years, and that officers are rotated every 2 months. Is this the first time you've had these officers under you? How did you handle them before?
Maybe I read it wrong, but I took him to mean the brass just decided to start rotating officers between shifts.
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Old 06-15-2013, 10:40   #48
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I have two write ups in 10+ years. First was an written Oral Warning for a fleet wreck, second was a Written Warning 7 year later for a fleet wreck. Ever Officer seems to have a fleet. Those with 5 years tenbd to have at least one fleet and those at 10+ tend to have close to 5 fleets on patrol. Is that a write up? If not I have never been written up, but have done a lot of letters on officers that do mess up. I rather deal with things in house than do a write up.

As a Supervisor I try never to get Military on my Officers. I first explain to them where we need to be as a shift. I later ride with them in a vehicle and show them what we can make stops for and how we can get arrests. Night time, LP lights out, use of high beams, fail to signal, watching set intersections/stop signs, a person with a window down and smoking will toss out their butt when done so follow them a bit. Lots of ways to aid in making stops. Then you have the DL checks and Ins. I never run radar, but can make stops if I need to. It makes the night go by quicker the more stops I make and arrests come from stops as well as tickets. You as a Supervisor need to show them how easy and fun traffic stops can be. Then teach them run a major street for 30 min and a neighbor hood for 30 min as they rotate doing things. My issue is Officers knowing when to stop doing things as we have everyone tied up with traffic stops and arrests and no one to respond to calls.

Positive support will go father than the Iron Fist. Just support your guys. Help them with paper work, and share your time with them. Educate them and show them on what you want.

Last, dont expect them to all be like you or all be the same. expect to have Officers that are different and use that for calls and dealings. I have a mix of officers and try to send them to calls they like. If they tick me off I send them to calls they hate. I have a guy who is into MMA and loves to go to any fight/domestic calls, a female that likes runaways and sexual assaults, guys that like drug arrests, guys that lies DWI's and guys that like wrecks. If I change the calls or their role at calls they get the point quick. MMA guy gets sent to a runaway, girl gets sent to a fight, DWI guy gets the wreck with wreck guy taking the DWI. They know they go to calls as they come, but know I can change calls for them. Its about mutual respect and knowing that there is payback for goofing off to much, but a lot of freedom if doing their J-O-B.
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Old 06-15-2013, 14:18   #49
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I feel for you. I've been a sergeant only 10 months. I am the youngest and have the least seniority on my shift. The most senior officer is in his 30th year and has three more to go. Talk about trying to get him motivated. The rest of the shift is okay. Finally three months ago, I had to threaten him with punishment for unproductivity (we have a point system so it's not a ticket quota, it's set up based on amount of hours worked in six weeks, they have to get to 80%). His threat was, if you can't be productive, you'll get reassigned to night shift (we have permanent 12 hr shifts) and a more productive officer can come to days.

Yes, it's like saying night shift is a punishment, but it's only a punishment for him.

it worked.
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Old 06-16-2013, 06:30   #50
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well after last night they seem to be on the right track. will have them for two more weeks before i rotate to days..... but the current crew on days are full of piss and vinegar which i like, they just need a little tempering at times.
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