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Old 06-14-2013, 14:32   #41
BL33D 4 M3
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Sorry, but this is nonfeasance.

He has the professional duty and obligation to remediate the situation and salvage his assigned employees. Failing to act decisively would make him morally and professionally worse than the slacking employees. He obviously gives a damn about being a good supervisor.
This; What you permit, you promote.

I also had another thought on your situation. You are the new boss, and younger than every one on your shift. I believe they are testing you. Where is the line? What will he allow us to get away with?

I think to one degree or another this is universal...

Last edited by BL33D 4 M3; 06-14-2013 at 14:35..
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Old 06-14-2013, 16:29   #42
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I feel for you, been there myself. You say you have been a Sgt. for four years so you know the drill then. The department decided to mix things up with this rotation for exactly the reason you are seeing, this group you are dealing with. I think you are doing the right thing, just hang in there. It takes years to get comfortable as a boss, it is a big change, especially if you are supervising the guys you were working with.I don't know anything about your agency, but when I ran up against this type of squad, I had the toughest cases work one on one with me, put a young go-getter in their place, or sometimes just sat them down and laid it all out. I don't know your people so you have to decide.
I will tell you this. Venting here is a good thing. Don't take it home. Don't take a demotion. I came home days thinking the same thing. I stuck it out and had 12 great years as a supervisor. Hang in there bud, it will get better. Good Luck!
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Old 06-15-2013, 00:45   #43
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From what I have seen is that as you move up in title or food chain the fewer friends you can have but I would make sure to cover your own six and then stop worrying about their ages. Good luck.
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Old 06-15-2013, 06:33   #44
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i sent them dept. e-mails thursday night.......last night (friday) they vented a bit and i told them to get all their **** in one sock and this was non negotiable.... seems to have work so far.... they actually snapped to, but im waiting to see if they slide back down after a while.
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Old 06-15-2013, 08:22   #45
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Years ago I tried the "pissed off" supervisor approach with some slugs. It didn't work.

The bottom line in my situation was, some of my aces got transferred off the squad and got replaced by slugs. The slugs brought down the rest of the squad's morale, and productivity suffered. My squad went from number one in the station to last.

What I did to combat the problem was to lead by example. I sent my patrol supervisor, a young and active guy, out with a mission to produce results. I went out from time to time whenever I could and came back with bodies. I don't like to get involved because it takes away my ability to supervise others who may need it at the time, but we lead by example and it helped. I have had senior officers not want to go out to some hairy calls, believe it or not. I told them to stay in the station and I started suiting up to go out on it. This got them moving, Lol.

All this having been said, some guys are just plain tough to motivate. As has been said earlier by others, if you try to crack the whip on senior officers they will just rebel. The best way to handle it in my opinion is to treat them like senior men and lead by example.

The best of luck, my friend. I have been there and I feel your pain.
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Old 06-15-2013, 09:31   #46
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Can I get a clarification please? You said you'd been a sgt for 4 years, and that officers are rotated every 2 months. Is this the first time you've had these officers under you? How did you handle them before?
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Old 06-15-2013, 10:25   #47
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Can I get a clarification please? You said you'd been a sgt for 4 years, and that officers are rotated every 2 months. Is this the first time you've had these officers under you? How did you handle them before?
Maybe I read it wrong, but I took him to mean the brass just decided to start rotating officers between shifts.
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Old 06-15-2013, 10:40   #48
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I have two write ups in 10+ years. First was an written Oral Warning for a fleet wreck, second was a Written Warning 7 year later for a fleet wreck. Ever Officer seems to have a fleet. Those with 5 years tenbd to have at least one fleet and those at 10+ tend to have close to 5 fleets on patrol. Is that a write up? If not I have never been written up, but have done a lot of letters on officers that do mess up. I rather deal with things in house than do a write up.

As a Supervisor I try never to get Military on my Officers. I first explain to them where we need to be as a shift. I later ride with them in a vehicle and show them what we can make stops for and how we can get arrests. Night time, LP lights out, use of high beams, fail to signal, watching set intersections/stop signs, a person with a window down and smoking will toss out their butt when done so follow them a bit. Lots of ways to aid in making stops. Then you have the DL checks and Ins. I never run radar, but can make stops if I need to. It makes the night go by quicker the more stops I make and arrests come from stops as well as tickets. You as a Supervisor need to show them how easy and fun traffic stops can be. Then teach them run a major street for 30 min and a neighbor hood for 30 min as they rotate doing things. My issue is Officers knowing when to stop doing things as we have everyone tied up with traffic stops and arrests and no one to respond to calls.

Positive support will go father than the Iron Fist. Just support your guys. Help them with paper work, and share your time with them. Educate them and show them on what you want.

Last, dont expect them to all be like you or all be the same. expect to have Officers that are different and use that for calls and dealings. I have a mix of officers and try to send them to calls they like. If they tick me off I send them to calls they hate. I have a guy who is into MMA and loves to go to any fight/domestic calls, a female that likes runaways and sexual assaults, guys that like drug arrests, guys that lies DWI's and guys that like wrecks. If I change the calls or their role at calls they get the point quick. MMA guy gets sent to a runaway, girl gets sent to a fight, DWI guy gets the wreck with wreck guy taking the DWI. They know they go to calls as they come, but know I can change calls for them. Its about mutual respect and knowing that there is payback for goofing off to much, but a lot of freedom if doing their J-O-B.
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Old 06-15-2013, 14:18   #49
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I feel for you. I've been a sergeant only 10 months. I am the youngest and have the least seniority on my shift. The most senior officer is in his 30th year and has three more to go. Talk about trying to get him motivated. The rest of the shift is okay. Finally three months ago, I had to threaten him with punishment for unproductivity (we have a point system so it's not a ticket quota, it's set up based on amount of hours worked in six weeks, they have to get to 80%). His threat was, if you can't be productive, you'll get reassigned to night shift (we have permanent 12 hr shifts) and a more productive officer can come to days.

Yes, it's like saying night shift is a punishment, but it's only a punishment for him.

it worked.
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Old 06-16-2013, 06:30   #50
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well after last night they seem to be on the right track. will have them for two more weeks before i rotate to days..... but the current crew on days are full of piss and vinegar which i like, they just need a little tempering at times.
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Old 06-16-2013, 17:41   #51
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I guess the whole thing leaves me with several points for discussion or self reflection.

1. The fact that you've gone 4 years as a supervisor and not yet dealt with any other dead weight, low producing officers, is curious, but could be indicative of point 2.

2. The idea that your department allowed all the dead weight, low producing officers to slug along on a single shift for who knows how long (at least four years, according to what you've told us) is an indictment of terrible leadership from above. It seems there is a culture of allowing officers to do whatever the heck they want for as long as they want.

3. Expanding on point 2, that these officers could do basically nothing for years and years, but then your command staff above you expects you to fix them during your 2 month tour with them, is just absurd. Your command staff needs to be made aware that these folks are NOT your problem, and while you are happy to help fix the problem, more solid leadership and guidance needs to come from above. The chief himself needs to sit everyone down in a department meeting and say "alright gang, things have been lax for a long time, no more".

Anyhow, that's my thoughts.. I've worked for many different supervisors over the years, good and bad, but never been one myself. Take my advice or leave it..
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Old 06-16-2013, 20:55   #52
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I guess the whole thing leaves me with several points for discussion or self reflection.

1. The fact that you've gone 4 years as a supervisor and not yet dealt with any other dead weight, low producing officers, is curious, but could be indicative of point 2.

2. The idea that your department allowed all the dead weight, low producing officers to slug along on a single shift for who knows how long (at least four years, according to what you've told us) is an indictment of terrible leadership from above. It seems there is a culture of allowing officers to do whatever the heck they want for as long as they want.

3. Expanding on point 2, that these officers could do basically nothing for years and years, but then your command staff above you expects you to fix them during your 2 month tour with them, is just absurd. Your command staff needs to be made aware that these folks are NOT your problem, and while you are happy to help fix the problem, more solid leadership and guidance needs to come from above. The chief himself needs to sit everyone down in a department meeting and say "alright gang, things have been lax for a long time, no more".

Anyhow, that's my thoughts.. I've worked for many different supervisors over the years, good and bad, but never been one myself. Take my advice or leave it..

some are old guys whom recently came from other departments, some use to be investigators in a previous life.... but i will say i am not without my own flaws.

and yes, the command expects me and the other sgts. to motivate them. this will only go so far as the write ups if and when they occur will come across thier desks for thier signature to support my findings or not.

my gripe is when they were on other shifts they were diluted.... you know the whole team gets credit even the slugs.... but when they put all the slugs together...well you know how that goes....

i was against the break up of certain officers whom work good together... plotting and scheming.... but slugs dont do that... they ride on the coat tails of the go getters. well im the only go getter on the shift it seems and without making them hold hands and go in to the projects together they wont...

ive come up with a plan and assignments that seems to be working as long as i stay on them... it will highlight thier deficiencies or productivity because they ate accountable for certain tasks i assign them.

other guys actually want to be left alone so they can freelance which is fine because they do stuff. this crew i have now are retired on the job.
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Old 06-17-2013, 13:00   #53
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I'm not entirely sure the "hammer time" has come. Have you tried the "lead by example" route? I think one of the best ways to make hard chargers out of the ROD guys is to be a hard charger yourself. Make them work with you. Have dispatch pull a stack of warrants (like 10-20) and tell them you're going to get them all served by the end of the week. Make them go with you as "backup." Some of the slugs might start working, so send them off to do the job. Rotate making the slugs that resist ride with you. Make them drive and point out violations to them and say "stop that car" or "did you see that?" If you're in the car, it's hard for them to find an excuse to try to cruise all night without doing anything. Make it fun again. It seems to me a lot of the old timers are beaten down by the administration and just want to ride out their remaining time and retire in peace.
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Old 06-22-2013, 10:56   #54
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Are their actions an "officer safety" concern? Or are they just lazy in every other aspect?
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Old 06-22-2013, 10:59   #55
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Are their actions an "officer safety" concern? Or are they just lazy in every other aspect?
this, unmotivated, wanting to do things their way..... if i dont tell them, they wont do anything....or wont do what is required....
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Old 06-22-2013, 13:26   #56
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I'm sorry to hear that. I'm no supervisor, but I have been an FTO in the past and I hate seeing others as you described.
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Old 06-22-2013, 13:35   #57
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A very good friend of mine moved from patrol to patrol sergeant.

He admits to this day that it was the worst mistake he ever made considering the environment and the chief at the time.

He was a star. College graduate, smart guy, one of the most proactive officers out there. Unfortunately, the moment he put on stripes, he was plugged for failure. From a insolent and openly hostile squad to a chief who refused to back him, he was challenged at every turn. It burned him up pretty quick and he is no longer a cop and has zero to do with the cop world anymore.

He admitted that he tried the various methods such as leading by example, dropping the hammer, win/win, and so on. None of it work as the people he supervised on his squad actively resisted him, threatened him and went to the chief to complain. The chief came down on him. He looked at taking a voluntary demotion but was told it was not allowed nor would his then wife allow a roll back because they "needed" the extra money.

It's a sad story in all but when I was asked if I would be a sergeant, I told command staff not only no but hell no, especially under the previous chief as he didn't have the courage to back his sergeants and wouldn't ride the department of the problem children. That may change with the new chief who is much more to backing his sergeants and not buckling under some officer crap.

Your postings was timely and I wish you success. But I will say there is no shame if you take a voluntary demotion to save your mental health and career.
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Old 06-23-2013, 00:43   #58
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Try7 what Blueiron suggests, but watch your ass they don't double reverse you......document all X5 and good luck...
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