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Old 10-12-2013, 10:38   #1
LApm9
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We must act now!

The Declaration of Independence closes with these words:

Quote:
And for the support of this declaration, with a firm reliance on the protection of Divine Providence, we mutually pledge to each other our lives, our fortunes and our sacred honor.
I have underlined a few.

I know that many of us are on hard times right now. However, unless we want to use the guns and ammo that we have accumulated, or perhaps lose our lives, we better employ our fortunes.

The time has passed for all of us normal people to be able to sit back and enjoy home and hearth, because the enemy is out working us. We attend to keeping our yards neat and our homes tidy, and to properly raising our children. The enemy has no children and lives in small sparsely furnished apartments.

And there is the big middle. There are a lot of liberals there, but they are distracted too, and therefore not a threat. These are the ones we see around us...but they are a minor threat.

If we patriots don't get off our ass and get working, we will lose. Make a plan and work it. Write checks EARLY to conservative campaigns. I may even get a second job just to send more money to my favored persons.

And go to Tea Party meetings! The last one I went to had a fair portion of normal people, but had a couple of nuts who interrupted EVERY discussion to proclaim "nullification" (on the local level) as the cure to all ills. I noticed the "normals" were rolling their eyes at this crap and were getting ready to leave. So I stood up and told these two: "Nullification might be valid if you have a ten thousand people, or majority of the state legislature, but if you try it with a dozen, or even a hundred, all you will do is fill up the jail. When you can bring a hundred people to this meeting. we'll discuss it further. Until then, let's pressure the Congressman and Senator". We have GOT to quiet down the nut cases that cause first time visitors to never come back.

BTW: I got long and loud applause for that...I guess a lot of other folks were tired of those two. :lol:

I am never going to that meeting alone again! I will bring someone!
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Old 10-12-2013, 10:53   #2
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You'd have a much better chance if your platform didn't gag a big percentage of Americans.
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Old 10-12-2013, 18:09   #3
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Tea Party? Don't make me laugh. GOP rebrand. Same fools. Different costume.
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Old 10-12-2013, 18:18   #4
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Thanks for the Share LApm9.....well done!

*Ignore any stinking Liberals here.....thats what they do...
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Old 10-12-2013, 21:36   #5
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Thanks for the Share LApm9.....well done!

*Ignore any stinking Liberals here.....thats what they do...
Go ahead and ignore Moderates and Liberals. Unfortunately, we vote, and we drastically outnumber the hardcore Conservative base.

So if you guys want any market share in our "Winner takes all" political system you better move more to the center instead of nominating bats**t crazy candidates every cycle.
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Old 10-13-2013, 07:36   #6
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Go ahead and ignore Moderates and Liberals. Unfortunately, we vote, and we drastically outnumber the hardcore Conservative base.

So if you guys want any market share in our "Winner takes all" political system you better move more to the center instead of nominating bats**t crazy candidates every cycle.
The only thing funnier than believing that "Tea Party" folks are some kind of liberty loving radicals is believing that status quo establishment hacks like Mitt Romney are "bats**t crazy" and that the GOP needs even more useless candidates. Now that's funny. Maybe both parties should run the same candidate.
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Old 10-13-2013, 11:33   #7
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The only thing funnier than believing that "Tea Party" folks are some kind of liberty loving radicals is believing that status quo establishment hacks like Mitt Romney are "bats**t crazy" and that the GOP needs even more useless candidates. Now that's funny. Maybe both parties should run the same candidate.
Naa... R-Money was basically a Democrat. Problem is in order to get the nomination he had to pull an oscar worthy acting job and out-crazy Santorum and Bachman in the primary. Then, he had to juggle his actual positions which are pretty moderate, with his pseudo positions which were somewhat akin to the mad hatter.

I found the whole thing hilarious.

I mean the dude lost his own state where he was Governor by like 10 percentage points. (you can't really say he has a "home" state when he has something like 6 houses spread across different parts of the country)

I'd have loved to see Jon Huntsman get the nod. I'd have voted for him in a second. Unfortunately, the crazy wasn't strong enough with him to get through the primary.
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Old 10-13-2013, 11:39   #8
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Santorum-Bachman-Romney-Obama.... Our choices are between death panels and ass police.
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Old 10-13-2013, 11:48   #9
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Santorum-Bachman-Romney-Obama.... Our choices are between death panels and ass police.
Until the republicans stop shafting the middle class with a giant strap-on so they can give huge tax breaks and incentives to the ultra-rich... er... "Job Creators" I'm going to vote against them. Period. I no longer care if Krusty the Clown runs on the Democrat ticket.

If we don't fix the wealth divide we're going to be the most well armed banana republic in the world.
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Old 10-13-2013, 11:52   #10
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Until the republicans stop shafting the middle class with a giant strap-on so they can give huge tax breaks and incentives to the ultra-rich... er... "Job Creators" I'm going to vote against them. Period. I no longer care if Krusty the Clown runs on the Democrat ticket.

If we don't fix the wealth divide we're going to be the most well armed banana republic in the world.
Sounds like a "death wish"...sure you aren't in CA.
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Old 10-13-2013, 11:57   #11
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Sounds like a "death wish"...sure you aren't in CA.
Do you want to go back to the way it was when our country was doing well?

Or do you want to continue the way we are?

Understand that the extremely wealthy don't give a damn. They have options. They'll bleed the wealth out of America and then get on their private jets and fly off to their homes in Bora Bora or wherever and never come back.

We'll all be left here in a country where our resources have been stolen, our capital has been shipped offshore, and our jobs that are left are all low paying crap jobs.

Sounds awesome to you does it?
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Old 10-13-2013, 12:06   #12
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Go ahead and ignore Moderates and Liberals. Unfortunately, we vote, and we drastically outnumber the hardcore Conservative base.

So if you guys want any market share in our "Winner takes all" political system you better move more to the center instead of nominating bats**t crazy candidates every cycle.
What is a liberal doing here in GT? Don't you know it is liberals who want to take down the Second Amendment? It is liberals who want to see the sale of glocks ended?
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Old 10-13-2013, 12:10   #13
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What is a liberal doing here in GT? Don't you know it is liberals who want to take down the Second Amendment? It is liberals who want to see the sale of glocks ended?
You honestly believe this?

I probably own more cool firepower than many on this board. I'm a huge fan of individual rights. This means the conservative tendency to try and legislate morality turns me off. As far as I'm concerned people should be able to own whatever they want provided they're qualified.

Binary thinking is killing this nation. You've got this idea that because I believe in individual rights, I'm agnostic, I abhor republican economic policies and social policies, and tend to be liberal that automatically I should be a gun grabber because it makes me fit in your nice little intellectual box.

No thanks.

The world needs more people like me that don't fit. People who can be all for individual rights which include both the right for gays to live as they please and people to own whatever guns they want.
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Old 10-13-2013, 12:14   #14
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Do you want to go back to the way it was when our country was doing well?

Or do you want to continue the way we are?

Understand that the extremely wealthy don't give a damn. They have options. They'll bleed the wealth out of America and then get on their private jets and fly off to their homes in Bora Bora or wherever and never come back.

We'll all be left here in a country where our resources have been stolen, our capital has been shipped offshore, and our jobs that are left are all low paying crap jobs.

Sounds awesome to you does it?
Success in this country, both economically and politically, lies with capitalism and the Constitution, as written. Redistribution of wealth is not capitalism and I do not support it in any form. Redistribution is not supported in the Constitution.

I don't have much but I worked for everything I have just as the rich folks did. Our work is different and deserves different level of compensation and I am totally okay with that. I don't want a damned thing that I didn't earn.

Over.
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Old 10-13-2013, 12:24   #15
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Do you want to go back to the way it was when our country was doing well?

Or do you want to continue the way we are?

Understand that the extremely wealthy don't give a damn. They have options. They'll bleed the wealth out of America and then get on their private jets and fly off to their homes in Bora Bora or wherever and never come back.

We'll all be left here in a country where our resources have been stolen, our capital has been shipped offshore, and our jobs that are left are all low paying crap jobs.

Sounds awesome to you does it?
You have made an excellent presentation of your negatives to my recommendation.

Now, what is your positive recommendation for a course of action?

Last edited by LApm9; 10-13-2013 at 12:26..
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Old 10-13-2013, 12:56   #16
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Success in this country, both economically and politically, lies with capitalism and the Constitution, as written. Redistribution of wealth is not capitalism and I do not support it in any form. Redistribution is not supported in the Constitution.

I don't have much but I worked for everything I have just as the rich folks did. Our work is different and deserves different level of compensation and I am totally okay with that. I don't want a damned thing that I didn't earn.

Over.
Move to Somalia then.

You have a seriously misguided idea of how America has historically worked.

Capitalism doesn't work any better in its "Pure" form than any other political or market theory.

If you pay any sort of tax then money is being redistributed. No tax is socioeconomically neutral. They all redistribute wealth. The question is do we take a bit more from those who can afford it and a bit less from those who can't so everyone can prosper? Or do we take less from those who don't need the money, shoulder the extra burden on those who are barely scraping by as is, and let the wealth accumulate at the top?

For roughly 30 years we've been trying the latter approach. It's contributed to completely gutting the middle class. We can continue this course, or we can go back to the way things were from about WWII till the late 80's when the top tax rates were much higher and the middle class was taxed much less.

One approach makes it much easier to balance the budget while not shouldering the burden of doing so on people who don't make nearly as much while the other sucks wealth out of the middle class, starves the federal government for revenue, thus leading to deficits, and leaves lots of wealth in the top income earners pockets which they hang on to.

Which approach sounds better to you?
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Old 10-13-2013, 13:03   #17
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You have made an excellent presentation of your negatives to my recommendation.

Now, what is your positive recommendation for a course of action?
Toss the Tea Party under the bus and move back to the center.

If you don't IMO, the Republican party will eventually split, with the bats**t crazy republicans (teaparty folks) going further right and the rest of the party moving to the center but the problem you guys have is you'll be done as a party.

IMO, that's a bad thing for America because we're sucking wind enough with two parties. It'll be infinitely worse with one. We need to go back to the days before Newt Gingrich. The days when the parties could actually work together and talk.

The Democrats aren't nearly as monolithic as the Republicans. Much more diverse caucus. But, they all manage to get along enough to get some things done. You guys need to take a few lessons from that. Quit acting like you all need to assimilate each other like you're the Borg or some s**t.

Welcome ideological diversity in your party instead of vilifying it.

This forum is a perfect example of what's wrong with the current Republican party. I can post stuff that's absolute fact and people who don't agree resort to personal attacks and/or just deny it.

Instead of taking that approach, try talking stuff out.
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Old 10-13-2013, 13:12   #18
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Mad, you make about as much sense as Obama. Your alternate reality is more than my simple mind can comprehend. I'm done.
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Old 10-13-2013, 13:13   #19
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Mad, you make about as much sense as Obama. Your alternate reality is more than my simple mind can comprehend. I'm done.
It's all good. Reality is Reality.
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Old 10-13-2013, 13:29   #20
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For roughly 30 years we've been trying the latter approach. It's contributed to completely gutting the middle class. We can continue this course, or we can go back to the way things were from about WWII till the late 80's when the top tax rates were much higher and the middle class was taxed much less.
Do you have any numbers, charts or something, to back up your claims? I'm not saying it isn't true. I honestly don't know either way.
I'm not really sure who I could believe anyway.
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Old 10-13-2013, 13:44   #21
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Do you have any numbers, charts or something, to back up your claims? I'm not saying it isn't true. I honestly don't know either way.
I'm not really sure who I cold believe.
Here's a couple of cool videos... One's a video that just talks about wealth disparity... The other is a guy responding to it that makes a very good point.



There are a couple of reasons we've gone this way that many economists more or less agree on. One is tax policy, and one is social change. That is, over time it was seen as relatively OK for a CEO to make 400x what his average employee made. That level of greed would have been unthinkable in the 50's. People would have been ostracized.

I'll try and find you some good CBO stats or something but that'll get you started. The second video is kind of a rebuttal to the first and while the guy makes a good point, both videos are incomplete.

With wealth there's a point of "Critical Mass" where you find yourself making enough that you can then take a significant amount and put it in tax sheltered forms of investment. This is where the very wealthy make their money. I don't blame them. I'd do it. Reaching that point is very difficult and requires you to make lots of money and be very smart about how you live.
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Old 10-13-2013, 13:54   #22
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People really need to stop calling themselves "Patriots" makes them sound like kooks regardless of their message
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Old 10-13-2013, 14:28   #23
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One other point about economic policy.

Capitalism is great, but the one thing that everyone always forgets is that there's always going to be a population of people who don't make enough to survive. Period.

Now...

This is where the real world crashes into theory. While individual mobility within that group can range from good to horrid depending on your system, that doesn't really matter because the group, as a demographic is always going to be there. This is why capitalism, just like communism, just like socialism, can't work in its pure form. But if you add in a bit of socialism and take some tax money and subsidize those people at the very bottom so they can get by it works fine.

We've been subsidizing the people at the very top. The Exxon Mobil's and the Mitt Romney's for decades now and we quibble among ourselves about doling out a few dollars for the people at the very bottom. It's shameful.
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Old 10-13-2013, 14:46   #24
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There is nothing we can do at this point. The last election was the turning point for the nation. We are in the minority now. The parasites and idiots are in the majority. At this point, you're only hope is that the collapse comes quickly enough that you're still able to deal with it and help with the subsequent rebuild.
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Old 10-13-2013, 16:38   #25
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You honestly believe this?

I probably own more cool firepower than many on this board. I'm a huge fan of individual rights. This means the conservative tendency to try and legislate morality turns me off. As far as I'm concerned people should be able to own whatever they want provided they're qualified.

Binary thinking is killing this nation. You've got this idea that because I believe in individual rights, I'm agnostic, I abhor republican economic policies and social policies, and tend to be liberal that automatically I should be a gun grabber because it makes me fit in your nice little intellectual box.

No thanks.

The world needs more people like me that don't fit. People who can be all for individual rights which include both the right for gays to live as they please and people to own whatever guns they want.
If you call yourself a liberal then you support a national policy of more gun control. What are you doing in GT?
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