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Old 10-13-2013, 13:44   #21
Mad Ryan
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Originally Posted by frank4570 View Post
Do you have any numbers, charts or something, to back up your claims? I'm not saying it isn't true. I honestly don't know either way.
I'm not really sure who I cold believe.
Here's a couple of cool videos... One's a video that just talks about wealth disparity... The other is a guy responding to it that makes a very good point.



There are a couple of reasons we've gone this way that many economists more or less agree on. One is tax policy, and one is social change. That is, over time it was seen as relatively OK for a CEO to make 400x what his average employee made. That level of greed would have been unthinkable in the 50's. People would have been ostracized.

I'll try and find you some good CBO stats or something but that'll get you started. The second video is kind of a rebuttal to the first and while the guy makes a good point, both videos are incomplete.

With wealth there's a point of "Critical Mass" where you find yourself making enough that you can then take a significant amount and put it in tax sheltered forms of investment. This is where the very wealthy make their money. I don't blame them. I'd do it. Reaching that point is very difficult and requires you to make lots of money and be very smart about how you live.
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Old 10-13-2013, 13:54   #22
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People really need to stop calling themselves "Patriots" makes them sound like kooks regardless of their message
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Old 10-13-2013, 14:28   #23
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One other point about economic policy.

Capitalism is great, but the one thing that everyone always forgets is that there's always going to be a population of people who don't make enough to survive. Period.

Now...

This is where the real world crashes into theory. While individual mobility within that group can range from good to horrid depending on your system, that doesn't really matter because the group, as a demographic is always going to be there. This is why capitalism, just like communism, just like socialism, can't work in its pure form. But if you add in a bit of socialism and take some tax money and subsidize those people at the very bottom so they can get by it works fine.

We've been subsidizing the people at the very top. The Exxon Mobil's and the Mitt Romney's for decades now and we quibble among ourselves about doling out a few dollars for the people at the very bottom. It's shameful.
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Old 10-13-2013, 14:46   #24
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There is nothing we can do at this point. The last election was the turning point for the nation. We are in the minority now. The parasites and idiots are in the majority. At this point, you're only hope is that the collapse comes quickly enough that you're still able to deal with it and help with the subsequent rebuild.
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Old 10-13-2013, 16:38   #25
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You honestly believe this?

I probably own more cool firepower than many on this board. I'm a huge fan of individual rights. This means the conservative tendency to try and legislate morality turns me off. As far as I'm concerned people should be able to own whatever they want provided they're qualified.

Binary thinking is killing this nation. You've got this idea that because I believe in individual rights, I'm agnostic, I abhor republican economic policies and social policies, and tend to be liberal that automatically I should be a gun grabber because it makes me fit in your nice little intellectual box.

No thanks.

The world needs more people like me that don't fit. People who can be all for individual rights which include both the right for gays to live as they please and people to own whatever guns they want.
If you call yourself a liberal then you support a national policy of more gun control. What are you doing in GT?
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Old 10-13-2013, 17:06   #26
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Write checks EARLY to conservative campaigns. I may even get a second job just to send more money to my favored persons.
And the conservative entertainers... Glenn Beck, Palin, Limbaugh, etc. thank you for your donations.

As long as they can keep scaring the money out of folks like you, all is well.

Trust them, and send them money... They are on your side.
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Old 10-13-2013, 18:29   #27
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If you call yourself a liberal then you support a national policy of more gun control. What are you doing in GT?
Holy binary thinking batman...

Look up what "Liberal" actually means. Then get back to me.
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Old 10-13-2013, 20:39   #28
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There is nothing we can do at this point. The last election was the turning point for the nation. We are in the minority now. The parasites and idiots are in the majority. At this point, you're only hope is that the collapse comes quickly enough that you're still able to deal with it and help with the subsequent rebuild.
If there is a collapse, if, why do you think there would be any kind of a worthwhile rebuild? I think things will just get worse, and just stay that way. When people start to get out of line, martial law. Get out of line? Terrorist. Want to resist with your rifle? NSA has a solution for that.
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Old 10-13-2013, 22:00   #29
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Why do they keep talking about what people think they should have?
Apparently a lot of people don't understand that just being born in the U.S.A. is hitting the genetic lottery of the world.
I know a few people who came here from other countries. There is a reason they worked to get here. They say Americans are total morons for not understanding how good they have it.
I don't really get why people think the fact that they are breathing entitles then to anything. It doesn't.



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Originally Posted by Mad Ryan View Post
Here's a couple of cool videos... One's a video that just talks about wealth disparity... The other is a guy responding to it that makes a very good point.

Wealth Inequality in America - YouTube

What Wasn't Said in "Wealth Inequality In America" - YouTube

There are a couple of reasons we've gone this way that many economists more or less agree on. One is tax policy, and one is social change. That is, over time it was seen as relatively OK for a CEO to make 400x what his average employee made. That level of greed would have been unthinkable in the 50's. People would have been ostracized.

I'll try and find you some good CBO stats or something but that'll get you started. The second video is kind of a rebuttal to the first and while the guy makes a good point, both videos are incomplete.

With wealth there's a point of "Critical Mass" where you find yourself making enough that you can then take a significant amount and put it in tax sheltered forms of investment. This is where the very wealthy make their money. I don't blame them. I'd do it. Reaching that point is very difficult and requires you to make lots of money and be very smart about how you live.
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For too long people have said "screw NY, IL, etc" or "that'll never happen here." Yes, it will eventually. If we dont start standing up together now, it will never stop.-ilgunguygt
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Old 10-13-2013, 22:44   #30
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Move to Somalia then.

You have a seriously misguided idea of how America has historically worked.

Capitalism doesn't work any better in its "Pure" form than any other political or market theory.

If you pay any sort of tax then money is being redistributed. No tax is socioeconomically neutral. They all redistribute wealth. The question is do we take a bit more from those who can afford it and a bit less from those who can't so everyone can prosper? Or do we take less from those who don't need the money, shoulder the extra burden on those who are barely scraping by as is, and let the wealth accumulate at the top?

For roughly 30 years we've been trying the latter approach. It's contributed to completely gutting the middle class. We can continue this course, or we can go back to the way things were from about WWII till the late 80's when the top tax rates were much higher and the middle class was taxed much less.

One approach makes it much easier to balance the budget while not shouldering the burden of doing so on people who don't make nearly as much while the other sucks wealth out of the middle class, starves the federal government for revenue, thus leading to deficits, and leaves lots of wealth in the top income earners pockets which they hang on to.

Which approach sounds better to you?
The one prior to the 16th amendment (you know, the majority of United States history), where the US went from a handfull of rebel colonies to the #1 economy on the planet, invented the middle class, attained the highest standard of living in the world, became a center for innovation, etc. etc. etc.

The obsession with the tax policy spanning a couple decades in the post WW2 period is really disgusting -- you people just don't know how to stop pointing guns at your fellow human beings.
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Old 10-13-2013, 23:56   #31
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Why do they keep talking about what people think they should have?
Apparently a lot of people don't understand that just being born in the U.S.A. is hitting the genetic lottery of the world.
I know a few people who came here from other countries. There is a reason they worked to get here. They say Americans are total morons for not understanding how good they have it.
I don't really get why people think the fact that they are breathing entitles then to anything. It doesn't.
I've lived in a couple of 3rd world countries. I'm well aware that we've got a much higher standard of living than many.

Problem is the middle class is where the wealth generation happens. If we continue to sap the wealth out of the middle class we're going to tank the economy.

This isn't speculation. This is simply the way it is.
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Old 10-14-2013, 05:10   #32
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Until the republicans stop shafting the middle class with a giant strap-on so they can give huge tax breaks and incentives to the ultra-rich... er... "Job Creators" I'm going to vote against them. Period. I no longer care if Krusty the Clown runs on the Democrat ticket.

If we don't fix the wealth divide we're going to be the most well armed banana republic in the world.


Talk about misguided.

Congratulations. Whilst making plans to spend other people's money, to which you have absolutely no entitlement, you've supported the doubling of your national debt, trillion dollar annual deficits, government takeover the health care system and the inevitable hyperinflation and total value collapse of what is left of the US dollar.


Instead of buying into the "you didn't build this" left wing mantra, why don't you open a trade account and purchase some XOM stock. Instead of pointing accusing fingers at Republicans for subsidizing big oil, perhaps you should realize you are 5 years into a Liberal Democrat Administration, 2 years of which the Democrats had a Super majority in Congress.

Perhaps you should read a little about the subsidies.
http://www.exxonmobilperspectives.co...out-subsidies/


Finally, I believe wealth distribution, like charity, starts at home. Live your principles. Good luck with managing your personal economy.
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Old 10-14-2013, 05:12   #33
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LApm9,

I am in complete agreement with you that the time is now to mobilize, as a conservative force, to make changes. The country is going straight down the toilet and into the progressive sewer. The enemy has deep pockets and have infiltrated every corner of our federal government, especially the executive branch and countless agencies that are accountable only to the President.

But I disagree that it's time to start writing checks. To either conservative PACs or Tea Party candidates. It boils down to this: All of our problems have been created in Washington. The solution will never come from Washington. If you send money, it winds up somewhere in Washington - either to a lobbying group, PAC or the pocket of a politician - who all will promise to do something useful with your money. Forget it. It isn't going to help.

It is time for the states to rise up. It is time for the states to call a constitutional convention, without Washington getting involved at any level. We need to amend the Constitution to limit terms of everyone - the senate, house and Supreme Court justices. We must reign in the power of the federal government and reduce their growing influence over every part of our lives. And finally, and perhaps most importantly, Washington should spend no more than they take in. The debt and deficit will be the ruin of the country.

http://conventionofstates.com/
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Old 10-14-2013, 05:32   #34
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If you call yourself a liberal then you support a national policy of more gun control. What are you doing in GT?
That's ridiculous. Every issue is a separate issue. They are not a package deal. You can be pro 2A and pro gay marriage,. Whatever label you give yourself overall, conservative or liberal, it does not mean you have to take that same side of every single issue.

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Old 10-14-2013, 05:36   #35
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Go ahead and ignore Moderates and Liberals. Unfortunately, we vote, and we drastically outnumber the hardcore Conservative base.

So if you guys want any market share in our "Winner takes all" political system you better move more to the center instead of nominating bats**t crazy candidates every cycle.
Winner take all? Isn't that exactly what you and the other liberals want?

Don't think you are fooling anyone here. You're more transparent than you think. We are just more polite and tolerant to opposing positions than your DU buddies.
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Old 10-14-2013, 06:28   #36
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I completely agree with the OP. Thanks, OP, for shutting up the retards at your meeting.

Why do I have an ignore list if you guys are going to keep quoting the resident uneducated communist? It defeats the ignore list. Help a brother out!
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Old 10-14-2013, 06:32   #37
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The only thing funnier than believing that "Tea Party" folks are some kind of liberty loving radicals is believing that status quo establishment hacks like Mitt Romney are "bats**t crazy" and that the GOP needs even more useless candidates. Now that's funny. Maybe both parties should run the same candidate.
Here we go again. The reason I invest in Reynolds Corp.

Do you have an suggestions for change? Let me guess, Ron Paul! As long as RP is around Al foil will be more valuable than his beloved gold.

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Old 10-14-2013, 07:57   #38
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I've lived in a couple of 3rd world countries. I'm well aware that we've got a much higher standard of living than many.

Problem is the middle class is where the wealth generation happens. If we continue to sap the wealth out of the middle class we're going to tank the economy.

This isn't speculation. This is simply the way it is.
What the videos said is that rich people have more money than poorer people think they should have.

If you want to make a case that giving middle class people more opportunities is good for our country, that's fine. But what's in the video is a dreary emotional complaint that rich people are getting richer.
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Old 10-14-2013, 08:01   #39
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Here we go again. The reason I invest in Reynolds Corp.

Do you have an suggestions for change?
You are quite obviously past the point where any change is possible.
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Old 10-14-2013, 08:15   #40
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...
If we don't fix the wealth divide we're going to be the most well armed banana republic in the world.
You do understand that stealing from the rich to give to the poor gives everyone incentive to do less, right?



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Do you want to go back to the way it was when our country was doing well?
...
Yeah, before the 16th and 17th amendments, the Fed, NFA, New Deal, undeclared wars, and a ton of other counterproductive crap we've done in the last 100 years or so.
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