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Old 10-20-2013, 10:18   #1
evlbruce
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US Ranks 21 of 23 in Math

And 15th in literacy according to a new survey of adults.

Yet we lead the world in per-pupil spending.
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Old 10-20-2013, 10:46   #2
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Well lets see the stated goal for Odumbo care is to register a mear 7 million folks by 1 Jan 14. So it will cost us 1 Triilion to institute this massive program to get 7 million insured? Just 4.9 % of the population will cost us 1 Trillion dollars? Really? So those folks are wurth this exspense? I would think it would be a whole lot cheaper just to have them collect a one time payment of say 1 million a peice then 1 Trillion dollar cost of Odumbocare.
I wonder how much we wasted on this bird?
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Old 10-20-2013, 12:34   #3
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Yay no child left behind!

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Old 10-20-2013, 12:50   #4
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21 out of 23? Woo hoo, that's a 91%!!

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Old 10-20-2013, 12:55   #5
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Originally Posted by evlbruce View Post
And 15th in literacy according to a new survey of adults.

Yet we lead the world in per-pupil spending.
No surprise here.

The U.S ranks #1 by a long shot in spending for health related issues yet ranks 37th or 38th in overall results (quality of care, average lifespan, infant mortality rates, etc)

The fed and state/local governments along with the populace in general doesn't get the fact throwing money at a problem doesn't fix the problem.

Case in point: my small town.

We have a local public and a Lutheran private high school. Costs per student are lower at the Lutheran school but of course the key is parents need to pay for this out of pocket.

If you can get by the prayer in school, students from the private school over the past twenty years have gotten 1) better ACT/SAT scores 2) more scholarships.

One local resident even went so far as to try and get a study done (on his dime) to look at graduation classes in the past 5, 10, 15 years, etc. The purpose looking at income levels, jobs, etc. He met with a lot of resistance; rumor was the study never got off the ground because the tale of the tape (aka checkbook) clearly favored the private school.

Does this mean all students of private schools do better? No. But when the largest public school system in Wisconsin (aka MPS Milwaukee public School) boasts a 43% high school graduation rate...you know the public sector isn't doing well.
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Old 10-20-2013, 13:08   #6
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No surprise here.

The U.S ranks #1 by a long shot in spending for health related issues yet ranks 37th or 38th in overall results (quality of care, average lifespan, infant mortality rates, etc)

The fed and state/local governments along with the populace in general doesn't get the fact throwing money at a problem doesn't fix the problem.

Case in point: my small town.

We have a local public and a Lutheran private high school. Costs per student are lower at the Lutheran school but of course the key is parents need to pay for this out of pocket.

If you can get by the prayer in school, students from the private school over the past twenty years have gotten 1) better ACT/SAT scores 2) more scholarships.

One local resident even went so far as to try and get a study done (on his dime) to look at graduation classes in the past 5, 10, 15 years, etc. The purpose looking at income levels, jobs, etc. He met with a lot of resistance; rumor was the study never got off the ground because the tale of the tape (aka checkbook) clearly favored the private school.

Does this mean all students of private schools do better? No. But when the largest public school system in Wisconsin (aka MPS Milwaukee public School) boasts a 43% high school graduation rate...you know the public sector isn't doing well.
There are many factors which influence school success.

Having kids that show up ready to learn is the biggest. You can't do that if they're worried about being shot on the way to school or haven't eaten since the free School Lunch the day before.

Having parents which are committed to the value of education. This doesn't work if you think your "common sense" is just as valid as a masters degree and you pass that on to your kids. If you're too lazy as a parent to make your kid do their homework before sitting them in front of the TV/Babysitter. If the parents are working 2 minimum wage jobs to try and make ends meet and don't have time to be effective parents. etc.

Having schools that are effectively funded. while we do spend a ton of money on education, our funding method of partially funding schools through property taxes leaves lots of schools in the lurch, while other schools in more affluent areas get the best of everything.

Having administrators who aren't idiots. Pretty self explanatory.

Having teachers which are paid enough to live on and who are committed to their jobs. I have a friend who owns a Restaurant. He pays his cooks more than my Sister gets paid as a teacher with a Masters deg. That's jacked up any way you look at it.

Getting the federal government out of education standards. No child left behind and similar "one size fits all" programs are pure idiocy. Educators need the ability to tailor learning programs to each kid as they're able to. The current Federal system assumes every kid is college bound. This simply isn't realistic. We need to provide alternate pathways for kids who are good at trade skills and other things.

Just a few thoughts...
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Old 10-20-2013, 13:33   #7
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I took a look at #2 on the list, Finland, to see what they had going for them. The teachers are all unionized and must have at least a Masters degree even teaching at the primary level. Teacher pay is not particularly high, but teachers enjoy great respect. They start education early with most everyone from all social classes putting their children in daycare (free or very cheap). They have a good healthcare system, so you have mothers getting care even before they give birth, and kids have their health needs taken care of. They have a high adult to pupil ratio. They require foreign language study. They offer after-school programs like music. Lunches are free for all. The universities and books are free. They offer life-long learning programs, so the adults can be continuing learners. It sounds good to me.

Last edited by Guss; 10-20-2013 at 13:38..
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Old 10-20-2013, 13:43   #8
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There are many factors which influence school success.

Having kids that show up ready to learn is the biggest. You can't do that if they're worried about being shot on the way to school or haven't eaten since the free School Lunch the day before.

Having parents which are committed to the value of education. This doesn't work if you think your "common sense" is just as valid as a masters degree and you pass that on to your kids. If you're too lazy as a parent to make your kid do their homework before sitting them in front of the TV/Babysitter. If the parents are working 2 minimum wage jobs to try and make ends meet and don't have time to be effective parents. etc.

Having schools that are effectively funded. while we do spend a ton of money on education, our funding method of partially funding schools through property taxes leaves lots of schools in the lurch, while other schools in more affluent areas get the best of everything.

Having administrators who aren't idiots. Pretty self explanatory.

Having teachers which are paid enough to live on and who are committed to their jobs. I have a friend who owns a Restaurant. He pays his cooks more than my Sister gets paid as a teacher with a Masters deg. That's jacked up any way you look at it.

Getting the federal government out of education standards. No child left behind and similar "one size fits all" programs are pure idiocy. Educators need the ability to tailor learning programs to each kid as they're able to. The current Federal system assumes every kid is college bound. This simply isn't realistic. We need to provide alternate pathways for kids who are good at trade skills and other things.

Just a few thoughts...
My wife is a teacher at a small private university.

Full Disclosure: her pay sucks. Her benefits are basically nonexistent. Truth be told with the hours she works she would be better off working at McDonald's.

She is however extremely dedicated to her job (think 60-70 hour work weeks). She was Rookie teacher of the year (she is only on her 2nd year) and her student's class scores were unheard of. Last term she scored two 5 of 5's (no teacher on any campus has gotten a perfect score in three years). A second class was a 4.86. Her lowest class score was a 4.26. She is one of the only people I know who truly loves their job.

I agree: students-parents-teachers are the three way need for success. You can get away with one of the last two slacking if the student is on board.

One size fits all programs are a failure. Even the idea "everyone has to go to college" is off base. My wife's school has some technical programs they can't seem to get off the ground. What counselors, students and parents don't understand is a mechanic or welder can make a very good living.
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Old 10-20-2013, 13:44   #9
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I'm surprised the US doesn't rate 23 of 21 in math. xD
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Old 10-20-2013, 13:47   #10
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Hey, al least we beat out Italy and Spain in both math and literacy.

Which is kind of surprising to me because I only hable un poco Espanol and absolutely no Italian. But we still beat them in their own languages!
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Old 10-20-2013, 14:42   #11
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I took a look at #2 on the list, Finland, to see what they had going for them. The teachers are all unionized and must have at least a Masters degree even teaching at the primary level. Teacher pay is not particularly high, but teachers enjoy great respect. They start education early with most everyone from all social classes putting their children in daycare (free or very cheap). They have a good healthcare system, so you have mothers getting care even before they give birth, and kids have their health needs taken care of. They have a high adult to pupil ratio. They require foreign language study. They offer after-school programs like music. Lunches are free for all. The universities and books are free. They offer life-long learning programs, so the adults can be continuing learners. It sounds good to me.
The population of Finland is about half that of Los Angeles.

I'm not an anthropologist, a statistician or expert in any kind of analysis related field, but I think that countries with smaller, more homogenic populations do better in some ways.

Denmark is a tiny country yet they produce and sell huge cargo ships to huge countries. People love to point to Switzerland and their entire social structure.

I love the USA and would live nowhere else, but with our tremendous size and freedoms come certain social problems and unique difficulties.
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Old 10-20-2013, 15:05   #12
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The population of Finland is about half that of Los Angeles.

I'm not an anthropologist, a statistician or expert in any kind of analysis related field, but I think that countries with smaller, more homogenic populations do better in some ways.

Denmark is a tiny country yet they produce and sell huge cargo ships to huge countries. People love to point to Switzerland and their entire social structure.

I love the USA and would live nowhere else, but with our tremendous size and freedoms come certain social problems and unique difficulties.
The countries of Northern Europe spend a great deal of money and resources on their social capital. We don't. When you invest in your people in intelligent ways you get results. When you just blindly waste money like we do because the mental children in your country are incapable of having even a marginally constructive dialogue about how to implement positive social investment then you fail.
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Old 10-20-2013, 15:09   #13
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My wife is a teacher at a small private university.

Full Disclosure: her pay sucks. Her benefits are basically nonexistent. Truth be told with the hours she works she would be better off working at McDonald's.

She is however extremely dedicated to her job (think 60-70 hour work weeks). She was Rookie teacher of the year (she is only on her 2nd year) and her student's class scores were unheard of. Last term she scored two 5 of 5's (no teacher on any campus has gotten a perfect score in three years). A second class was a 4.86. Her lowest class score was a 4.26. She is one of the only people I know who truly loves their job.

I agree: students-parents-teachers are the three way need for success. You can get away with one of the last two slacking if the student is on board.

One size fits all programs are a failure. Even the idea "everyone has to go to college" is off base. My wife's school has some technical programs they can't seem to get off the ground. What counselors, students and parents don't understand is a mechanic or welder can make a very good living.
My stepdad was a teacher for 30-something years. He now runs a foundation which gets kids money for college. It's entirely privately funded and he meets with each kid in the Senior class at the school he taught at (well over 400 kids a year) and tries to find the best fit for that kid. Steers them toward that goal, and provides money for them to pursue it. Kids go into apprenticeship programs, linemans school, tech schools, a whole assortment of colleges, etc.

You're right, lots of great jobs in a variety of industries but "No child left behind" is all about forcing kids into a 4-year school.
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Old 10-20-2013, 16:56   #14
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...

I love the USA and would live nowhere else, but with our tremendous size and freedoms come certain social problems and unique difficulties.
So we just keep riding the "exceptional" bus.
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Old 10-20-2013, 17:07   #15
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So we just keep riding the "exceptional" bus.


"exceptional" (exceptionalism) The words are like Holy-Water to blood-sucking Vampire "Progressives" in power....Its not allowed anymore...cause its not "fair"
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Old 10-20-2013, 17:46   #16
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The article only mentioned economically advanced countries. When you think about China gaining more PhD's per year than we are, it gets really sad.
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Old 10-20-2013, 18:16   #17
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21 of 23. That puts us in 3rd

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Old 10-20-2013, 19:54   #18
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"exceptional" (exceptionalism) The words are like Holy-Water to blood-sucking Vampire "Progressives" in power....Its not allowed anymore...cause its not "fair"
Yeah, well in this case being the exception isn't a good thing.

Exceptionally bad healthcare.

Exceptionally bad education.

Exceptionally poor personal freedom.

etc.
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Old 10-20-2013, 20:20   #19
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Predicted USAToday news mcnugget headline "Administration's Education Programs Result in US Reaching Top 25 in Math Competency and Top 15 in Literacy!"

Everyone gets a trophy. We've become a country where "No child moves ahead." Ridiculous, pathetic and ultimately destructive.


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Old 10-20-2013, 21:47   #20
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Politicians like their voters stupid and dependent.

Makes it look like they were democratically selected. You know, kind like President Putin.
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Old 10-20-2013, 22:08   #21
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The countries of Northern Europe spend a great deal of money and resources on their social capital. We don't. When you invest in your people in intelligent ways you get results. When you just blindly waste money like we do because the mental children in your country are incapable of having even a marginally constructive dialogue about how to implement positive social investment then you fail.
Bravo - this is so true
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Old 10-20-2013, 22:20   #22
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The population of Finland is about half that of Los Angeles.

I'm not an anthropologist, a statistician or expert in any kind of analysis related field, but I think that countries with smaller, more homogenic populations do better in some ways.

Denmark is a tiny country yet they produce and sell huge cargo ships to huge countries. People love to point to Switzerland and their entire social structure.

I love the USA and would live nowhere else, but with our tremendous size and freedoms come certain social problems and unique difficulties.
HTML Code:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taxation_in_Denmark
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Old 10-20-2013, 22:23   #23
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thanks Obama. BTW, what were his math scores in college? oh that's right, those "records" are sealed.
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Old 10-20-2013, 22:29   #24
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“It is often easier for our children to obtain a gun than it is to find a good school.”
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“Maybe that's because guns are sold at a profit, while schools are provided by the government.”
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"True education makes for inequality; the inequality of individuality, the inequality of success, the glorious inequality of talent, of genius; for inequality, not mediocrity, individual superiority, not standardization, is the measure of the progress of the world.""
-Felix Schelling (_Pedagogically Speaking_)

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Old 10-20-2013, 23:08   #25
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This simply isn't realistic. We need to provide alternate pathways for kids who are good at trade skills and other things.

Just a few thoughts...
You got that one right. BIG time. I'm a strong proponent of trade and technical schools. Why? I came from one, earn six figures working in the tech industry, fixing, improving and upgrading control systems. I love what I do, the school was affordable and everyone I know who went there in my program did very well for themselves, with little to no debt obligations coming out of it. It was/is a publicly funded tech school.

Yeah...goes against my grain politically, but this one works. Why? Perhaps because the instructors typically come from military or industrial PRIVATE SECTOR work experience. They show the students what REALLY matters out there. It's not just textbook bull*****, but practical work, solving real problems and learning to do so quickly and safely.

We seriously need to stop pushing every kid into the college debt spiral. When that bubble bursts, it's gonna get ugly.

EVERYONE needs a plumber, electrician, auto mechanic, dental assistant, SOME time in their lives. How many need an art history major?
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