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Old 10-20-2013, 22:08   #21
joeG26er
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Originally Posted by Mad Ryan View Post
The countries of Northern Europe spend a great deal of money and resources on their social capital. We don't. When you invest in your people in intelligent ways you get results. When you just blindly waste money like we do because the mental children in your country are incapable of having even a marginally constructive dialogue about how to implement positive social investment then you fail.
Bravo - this is so true
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Old 10-20-2013, 22:20   #22
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The population of Finland is about half that of Los Angeles.

I'm not an anthropologist, a statistician or expert in any kind of analysis related field, but I think that countries with smaller, more homogenic populations do better in some ways.

Denmark is a tiny country yet they produce and sell huge cargo ships to huge countries. People love to point to Switzerland and their entire social structure.

I love the USA and would live nowhere else, but with our tremendous size and freedoms come certain social problems and unique difficulties.
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Old 10-20-2013, 22:23   #23
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thanks Obama. BTW, what were his math scores in college? oh that's right, those "records" are sealed.
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Old 10-20-2013, 22:29   #24
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Old 10-20-2013, 23:08   #25
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This simply isn't realistic. We need to provide alternate pathways for kids who are good at trade skills and other things.

Just a few thoughts...
You got that one right. BIG time. I'm a strong proponent of trade and technical schools. Why? I came from one, earn six figures working in the tech industry, fixing, improving and upgrading control systems. I love what I do, the school was affordable and everyone I know who went there in my program did very well for themselves, with little to no debt obligations coming out of it. It was/is a publicly funded tech school.

Yeah...goes against my grain politically, but this one works. Why? Perhaps because the instructors typically come from military or industrial PRIVATE SECTOR work experience. They show the students what REALLY matters out there. It's not just textbook bull*****, but practical work, solving real problems and learning to do so quickly and safely.

We seriously need to stop pushing every kid into the college debt spiral. When that bubble bursts, it's gonna get ugly.

EVERYONE needs a plumber, electrician, auto mechanic, dental assistant, SOME time in their lives. How many need an art history major?
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Old 10-21-2013, 09:26   #26
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Yay government schools! Yay public educational institutions! Yay teachers' unions with lifetime job security! Yay no union rep left behind! Yay Natso control of schools for decades!

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Old 10-21-2013, 09:26   #27
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This is a cultural problem that government is trying to fix, but ends up making it worse at every turn -- standard government style. The government incentives are backwards as always -- the worse the problem gets, the more money you have thrown at you.

The bottom line is that education is now free. You can download dozens of textbooks for free and then watch lectures from top-of-the-top educators at every level for free. You can do testing for free. Then you can go to arxiv.org and have access to the cutting edge knowledge of mankind. For free. And you can even participate in it. And anyone can do it from their computer, regardless of where they live.

This is the dream of ancient philosophers -- we're living in an educational paradise. A space-age wonderland of free information and expert instruction for all. You only need one thing -- you have to want it badly enough. Badly enough to escape the educational trap that the government has set for you. And there's the rub.

But I can promise you that my kids will be educated, and I really don't give a s**t how predictably bad public schools get, because my kids won't be going anywhere near those "21 out of 23" failbot-factories.
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Old 10-21-2013, 11:52   #28
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You got that one right. BIG time. I'm a strong proponent of trade and technical schools. Why? I came from one, earn six figures working in the tech industry, fixing, improving and upgrading control systems. I love what I do, the school was affordable and everyone I know who went there in my program did very well for themselves, with little to no debt obligations coming out of it. It was/is a publicly funded tech school.

Yeah...goes against my grain politically, but this one works. Why? Perhaps because the instructors typically come from military or industrial PRIVATE SECTOR work experience. They show the students what REALLY matters out there. It's not just textbook bull*****, but practical work, solving real problems and learning to do so quickly and safely.

We seriously need to stop pushing every kid into the college debt spiral. When that bubble bursts, it's gonna get ugly.

EVERYONE needs a plumber, electrician, auto mechanic, dental assistant, SOME time in their lives. How many need an art history major?
Just curious, but do you think a good business school is any different?

I'm back in college again in my mid 30's and most of my business professors are retired business people. They made enough to retire and move to Ashland because it's a beautiful place to live, then got a teaching job at the local uni to keep busy.

Most of them barely use textbooks.

Any school, be it a trade school, a conventional college, whatever can be hugely beneficial for the person who goes into to it with a plan.

This idea that gets perpetuated that conventional liberal arts schools are all "theory" based and don't teach any sort of real subject matter is simply not the case. It all depends on what you're after but the Science and Business colleges tend to teach the up to the minute stuff that's relevant in the real world.

That said, I bump into people who are getting masters degrees in Art History or some such and I just mentally cringe. $80k in debt for a masters in Art History. That's gonna hurt down the road.

You're right that there's increasing demand for lots of apprenticeship type jobs. The baby-boomers are retiring and it's freeing up some pretty good jobs in lots of fields.
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Old 10-21-2013, 15:12   #29
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Under Odumbo there will be plenty of hamburger flipping jobs. The cashiers will have to push some buttons, so they don't have to figure out change manually, but will still require a modicum of ability.

Under the Natsos, everybody should go to college, everybody needs to go to college, everybody deserves to go to college. Why? Maybe four more years of Natso indoctrination. Certainly not for any practical purpose.
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Old 10-21-2013, 21:16   #30
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Under Odumbo there will be plenty of hamburger flipping jobs. The cashiers will have to push some buttons, so they don't have to figure out change manually, but will still require a modicum of ability.

Under the Natsos, everybody should go to college, everybody needs to go to college, everybody deserves to go to college. Why? Maybe four more years of Natso indoctrination. Certainly not for any practical purpose.
You evidently forgot that your boy wrecked the economy while spending ungodly amounts of money on two wars and doing nothing to try and pressure the FED to raise rates to slow down the housing bubble a bit.

I'm not really a fan of Obama but some people just go full retard whenever anything goes wrong and blame it on him. Cracks me up.

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Old 10-22-2013, 01:14   #31
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Just curious, but do you think a good business school is any different?

I'm back in college again in my mid 30's and most of my business professors are retired business people. They made enough to retire and move to Ashland because it's a beautiful place to live, then got a teaching job at the local uni to keep busy.

Most of them barely use textbooks.
That works too. Without first plying one's trade in actual conditions where you must PROVE yourself, day in, day out, meet deadlines, production and sales quotas, you really don't know WHAT to teach to the next generation. You can show students a schematic of, say, a motor control center; It looks so simple and clean in a drawing, but when you are faced with a bucket full of contactors, wiring, terminals, relays, cobwebs, spiders(!), transformers and switches....the reality sets in.

I had a digital circuits instructor who would give us circuits to wire up that when done correctly, would work fine. He would then have us leave the room and he'd screw with them....swap wires, remove them, pull wire out and re-install only insulation...all kinds of tricks. We learned to be THOROUGH and diligent in troubleshooting the problem. If he didn't like you much, he'd short circuit an IC so it would smoke upon power up. Great fun.

I've always thought that we, as an industrialized nation, would be so much better off if one had to first get an apprenticeship or even journeyman level of field experience BEFORE even being eligible for ANY engineering degree program. I've worked with a lot of new college engineering grads who didn't know jack squat about much of anything beyond how to fit an object of size X into a space of size Y. Most couldn't even use a hammer without hurting themselves. I kid you not! These guys/gals are supposed to be experts in systems that they have never even taken apart or repaired. Ever.

The skilled tradesman....a vanishing breed.
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Old 10-22-2013, 10:22   #32
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Yeah, well in this case being the exception isn't a good thing.

Exceptionally bad healthcare.

Exceptionally bad education.

Exceptionally poor personal freedom.

etc.
I'm not so sure that it's the healthcare that is "exceptionally bad." "Exceptionally bad" health perhaps. "Exceptionally bad" delivery system? Seems that the three examples you cited are the result of "exceptionally bad" government meddling. Lets add "exceptionally bad" economic growth and "exceptionally bad" unemployment rate and "exceptionally bad" worker participation rate and "exceptionally bad" national debt. Also the result of "exceptionally bad" government meddling.
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Old 10-22-2013, 10:40   #33
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I'm not really a fan of Obama but some people just go full retard whenever anything goes wrong and blame it on him. Cracks me up.
What's doubly funny is that many of those same people adopted or embraced the term "Bush Derangement Syndrome" to mock those who were so wound up about Bush they abandoned all rational thought.
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Old 10-22-2013, 14:13   #34
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I'm not really a fan of Obama but some people just go full retard whenever anything goes wrong and blame it on him. Cracks me up.
I'm not really a fan of Bush but some people just go full retard whenever anything goes wrong and blame it on him. Cracks me up.

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Old 10-22-2013, 14:15   #35
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So, spending us a trillion more dollars in debt in thirteen months gets us out of financial trouble how, exactly? I love Natso economics. It didn't work in the Soviet Union, it didn't work in Cuba, it didn't work in North Korea, it didn't work in East Germany, but they're just sure it will work here. Let's just try it once more. This time it's different.
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Old 10-22-2013, 14:17   #36
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You evidently forgot that your boy wrecked the economy while spending ungodly amounts of money on two wars and doing nothing to try and pressure the FED to raise rates to slow down the housing bubble a bit.
You seem to forget whose mortgage policies caused the housing bubble. I suggest you do a bit of research, and check Barney Fwank, Chris Dodd, Janet Reno, and Bill Clinton. It might be a good history lesson for you.
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Old 10-22-2013, 16:07   #37
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You evidently forgot that your boy wrecked the economy while spending ungodly amounts of money on two wars and doing nothing to try and pressure the FED to raise rates to slow down the housing bubble a bit.
And yours spent twice as much in half the time whilst grabbing the Health care industry.

What till you see what a real "wrecked ecomony" looks like as a result.
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Old 10-22-2013, 17:09   #38
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You seem to forget whose mortgage policies caused the housing bubble. I suggest you do a bit of research, and check Barney Fwank, Chris Dodd, Janet Reno, and Bill Clinton. It might be a good history lesson for you.
Housing/mortgage problems began in the mid and late '70's. Values skyrocketed. Lenders were forced to make loans in declining areas due to anti-redlining laws. They were "persuaded" to give loans based on inflated values to previously unqualified borrowers. Those loans came back later to bite the market in the ass.

If you dared pre-qualify a buyer as a Realtor, as we were use to doing back then, and told the buyer they wouldn't qualify for the homes "they wanted to look at," you'd better be prepared for a visit from the discrimination investigators at HUD. This was especially true if your customer was a member of a minority group.

The laws and policies of the late '70s and early '80s were the beginning of "The American Dream", home ownership, transitioning from something you went out and worked for, that you earned the money to buy with, and accepted the responsibility for repaying the loan to the entitlement status people think it is today. No money down, low interest rates that let people buy more house than they should, and now programs that let borrowers walk away, even paying them to short sale their homes.

The 'housing bubble' was horrendous, but .gov started it, then did nothing to prevent lending institutions from following their lead. And the secondary mortgage market's incestuous relationship with originators and Wall Street...
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Old 10-22-2013, 21:23   #39
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Exactly.

And banks faced the full onslaught of Janet Reno's Department of Justice starting in the 1990s, as outlined in this New York Times op/ed piece from 1994.

Here's a snippet:

Quote:
Under the settlement, Chevy Chase [Bank] will set up new branches and mortgage offices in the excluded neighborhoods and recruit blacks for loan-production positions. It will also spend $11 million to set up special loan programs to provide mortgages at below-market rates in the excluded neighborhoods.
I'd suggest somebody research the Community Reinvestment Act, but it would do no good.
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Old 10-22-2013, 22:50   #40
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And yours spent twice as much in half the time whilst grabbing the Health care industry.

What till you see what a real "wrecked ecomony" looks like as a result.
Hilarious.

This isn't even close to true. As previously mentioned, I don't even like Obama but I dislike willful ignorance even more.

Bush and Obama both suffer from the same problem. They're both ideologues.
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