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Old 10-23-2013, 18:09   #26
ArtyGuy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frameman View Post
Although I was not a POW I am a Vietnam veteran, specifically a USMC infantry machine gunner.
My training ordered us to resist interrogation to the death. Many captives resisted and died. McCain didn't and others died.
These orders are not my personal standards but the standards of our military organizations.
I have earned the right to put conditions on Mc Cain just as I have put conditions on John Kerry.
Neither served honorably
That's complete BS and you know it. Your squad may have talked big smack about how tough you'd be if interrogated but you certainly didn't go through a formal training program. Even those who go through SERE aren't taught to fight it until their death.

Before you get on your high horse, you're not the only combat vet around here.
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Old 10-23-2013, 18:44   #27
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Originally Posted by ked View Post
i certainly appreciate all who have served this country. a sincere Thank You to you.

i do have to agree with this article. McCain has done great harm to this country and he should be removed from the Senate.

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Yeah? Well you know what he'd never do? He'd never post in neon ****ing yellow text on a white background!
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Old 10-23-2013, 19:26   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frameman View Post
McCain caved for the Vietnamese and caved for the democrats.
He was/is not a hero of any kind he is a collaborator
I would really like for you to back this up or retract it.

As for the OP, Joe should stick to plumbing.
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Old 10-23-2013, 20:21   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frameman View Post
McCain caved for the Vietnamese and caved for the democrats.
He was/is not a hero of any kind he is a collaborator
Quote:
Originally Posted by muscogee View Post
I would really like for you to back this up or retract it....
I too would like to see the proof, or a retraction.
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Old 10-23-2013, 21:33   #30
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I too would like to see the proof, or a retraction.
There has been, and is some doubt about the character McCain maintained while a POW. There is no proof that he was a collaborator, and there is no proof that he wasn't.

Just as no proof that Saddam Hussein had WMD's, doesn't necessarily mean he didn't. We do know that he has had WMD's and has used them.

I think the term "collaborator" certainly can be applied to his character as a politician. This doesn't mean that his lack of character as a politician means he had a lack of character in service to our country.......but, it does make one wonder.

ooc
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Old 10-23-2013, 21:50   #31
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I did that a long time ago.

Military service does NOT give one a pass to be lifelong d-bag afterwards. His account is overdrawn in my opinion.
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Old 10-23-2013, 21:56   #32
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I honor him as a veteran, I detest him as a soulless slim bag liberal obama butt kisser.
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Old 10-23-2013, 22:43   #33
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Originally Posted by hogship View Post
There has been, and is some doubt about the character McCain maintained while a POW. There is no proof that he was a collaborator, and there is no proof that he wasn't.
As we often point out in religion threads, you can't "prove he didn't" so the burden is on somebody claiming he did.
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Old 10-23-2013, 23:46   #34
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The premise to this is asinine at best. Would the writer do the same to Kerry for burning his medals, a far worse act in my book.
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Old 10-24-2013, 05:36   #35
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If McCains daddy and grandaddy weren't admirals we would never have heard of John McCain. That he divorced his wife that stuck with him through his pow time to marry a rich woman to launch his political career showes what he is.

That he was responsible for McCain-Feingold that was ruled unconstitutional is another showing of his caracter.

He is a worthless SOB of epic proportions, but the house and senate is infested with like minded people.

May he rot in hell in a burning pool of jet fuel.
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Old 10-24-2013, 05:51   #36
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Forestall anyone? Flame on john, flame on.
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Old 10-24-2013, 08:51   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hogship View Post
There has been, and is some doubt about the character McCain maintained while a POW. There is no proof that he was a collaborator, and there is no proof that he wasn't.

Just as no proof that Saddam Hussein had WMD's, doesn't necessarily mean he didn't. We do know that he has had WMD's and has used them.

I think the term "collaborator" certainly can be applied to his character as a politician. This doesn't mean that his lack of character as a politician means he had a lack of character in service to our country.......but, it does make one wonder.

ooc
IIRC, when the NVA found out about McCain's family they offered to send him home on the next plane. McCain recognized that for the propaganda ploy it was. The NVA would send him home so they could counter the claims of their inhumanity. The world conversation would be diverted from releasing all the prisoners to the NVA's humane gesture of sending McCain home. McCain refused to leave until all the prisoners taken before him were released. You may not like him as a politician, but that was an honorable move.
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Old 10-24-2013, 08:58   #38
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Originally Posted by JBnTX View Post
Can you back up these claims about McCain?
Google is your friend.
I'll even ask they question for you.
"Did John McCain collaborate with his Vietnamese captors ?"
Now remember, don't just read the posts that support your views.
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Old 10-24-2013, 17:30   #39
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The premise to this is asinine at best. Would the writer do the same to Kerry for burning his medals, a far worse act in my book.
If I'm not mistaken, Kerry threw no medals you couldn't buy over the fence. There are medals you cannot buy, but there are the three ribbons everyone gets, which anyone can purchase the medal that represents those ribbons.

Collaboration with the enemy during war, and in the enemy's camp is on the same level as throwing some meaningless campaign medals and National Defense Medal over a fence......? Not in my book.

ooc



Quote:
Originally Posted by Frameman View Post
Google is your friend.
I'll even ask the question for you.
"Did John McCain collaborate with his Vietnamese captors ?"
Now remember, don't just read the posts that support your views.
I can't answer that question, but I'm not convinced his integrity was unquestionable back then.........mainly because his integrity as a politician is certainly questionable now.......

ooc
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Last edited by hogship; 10-24-2013 at 17:46..
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Old 10-24-2013, 18:44   #40
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McCain's still pissed that he picked a bad running mate and lost to the worst president this country has had. Really how would you feel if you lost to obama?

There's something wrong with so many people in Washington on both sides.
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Old 10-24-2013, 19:44   #41
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http://www.theamericanconservative.c...-pow-cover-up/





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Old 10-24-2013, 20:29   #42
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Originally Posted by Laslo View Post
McCain's still pissed that he picked a bad running mate and lost to the worst president this country has had. Really how would you feel if you lost to obama?

There's something wrong with so many people in Washington on both sides.
I’m pissed that a Great American ran on the same ticket as the old senile fart and was associated with the liberal looser.
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Old 10-25-2013, 09:20   #43
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Originally Posted by Stubudd View Post
http://www.theamericanconservative.c...-pow-cover-up/


Thank you for this link.
There are many like it.
People can and will draw their own conclusions.
I know what mine are.


.
Thank you for this link.
There are many like it.
People can and will draw their own conclusions.
I know what mine are.
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Old 10-25-2013, 12:07   #44
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Originally Posted by JBnTX View Post
Your post and the posts of others here are very disrespectful to the brave men and women who've risked their lives to defend this country.

Since when do our brave service members have to meet your personal standards before you respect them? Where does that even come from?

McCain was tortured and still today cannot raise his arms above shoulder level. He did what he had to do to survive.

YOU would have done the same thing to survive in that Vietnamese prison camp.

I can't believe you guys dare to put conditions on a persons military service just because you have a different political opinion.

That is just wrong!

..
For once I agree with you 100%.
McCain, more than even most service people, earned his free speech rights. He has earned the right to be as wrong as he wants to be, on any issue of his choice.

Cheap personal shots say more about the poster than they do about McCain.

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Old 10-25-2013, 21:23   #45
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It pains me to see a "brother in arms" evolve into what he is today.
I do not take the "Bothers Forever" in my avatar lightly.

I have no more to say on this matter.
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Old 10-25-2013, 22:13   #46
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Anyone who discredits McCains service to his country is probably also stupid enough to think Edward Snowden is a modern day hero. Snowden is just a face for anti American propaganda which supersedes current politics or politicians and hurts America. Do you want to live in a world where the USA is the bad guy, and Russia is the Good guy ? People are so introspectively stupid.
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Old 10-25-2013, 22:30   #47
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Anyone who discredits McCains service to his country is probably also stupid enough to think Edward Snowden is a modern day hero. Snowden is just a face for anti American propaganda which supersedes current politics or politicians and hurts America. Do you want to live in a world where the USA is the bad guy, and Russia is the Good guy ? People are so introspectively stupid.
Just in the real world. In the real world, the US government lies and steals a lot and kills a lot of people. Same goes for russia, but i'm not nearly as familiar with them.

I don't respect sociopathic lying con men. Sending naive peoples' kids to be killed or maimed in deserts on the other side of the world to enrich his connections rather overrides whatever service he might have performed any other time in his life as far as i'm concerned, sorry. Not to mention abandoning fellow POWs in vietnam, if that's really the whole story there.

That's not to say the entire US govt and everybody in it does all and only those things all the time, but various powerful elements in and connected to it most certainly do. McCain certainly seems to be among the most highly connected of the public figures of the machine, to some of the very worst elements. He's as low as it gets.

Last edited by Stubudd; 10-25-2013 at 22:49..
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Old 10-25-2013, 22:34   #48
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Originally Posted by BigCheese03012 View Post
Anyone who discredits McCains service to his country is probably also stupid enough to think Edward Snowden is a modern day hero. Snowden is just a face for anti American propaganda which supersedes current politics or politicians and hurts America. Do you want to live in a world where the USA is the bad guy, and Russia is the Good guy ? People are so introspectively stupid.
As has already been covered, if McCain is such a hero for you, then so too must be Benedict Arnold, in fact Arnold was a great war hero of the American revolution until he was slighted to his mind, by Washington, prompting him to cut his deal with the redcoats.

I don't just discount McCain's service, I spit on it...
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Old 10-25-2013, 22:39   #49
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the McCain who fought for this country 40 years ago is far different than the one that has been dismantling it ever since....
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Old 10-25-2013, 23:03   #50
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As has already been covered, if McCain is such a hero for you, then so too must be Benedict Arnold, in fact Arnold was a great war hero of the American revolution until he was slighted to his mind, by Washington, prompting him to cut his deal with the redcoats.

I don't just discount McCain's service, I spit on it...
I wouldn't go so far as to call McCain a traitor. Naive in thinking war with Seria could ever accomplish anything good with Obama as president. And the "Maverick" who used to complain about "Pork Barrel spending" where is he ?
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