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Old 10-26-2013, 20:43   #1
Chronos
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intro to anarchocapitalism

...for those who don't mind evaluating some challenging ideas:

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Old 10-27-2013, 08:03   #2
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I appreciate the link. Interestingly, though much of what was discusses was new to me, I found none of it challenging to my way of thinking. It was logical and well-reasoned.

Sadly, there are so many people who are so accustomed to the tyranny and madness of our current system, that there is no hope of them ever turning to the path of freedom. It reminds me of the Matrix. They've been slaves for so long, they'll fight to maintain it.

I think the most spot-on comment was that of politicians. They aren't random people selected from the general population. They're people who are especially interested in power and control, and therefore, have no principles.
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Old 10-27-2013, 11:31   #3
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Thank you for the feedback, Machinist. I agree that the extent to which the ideas are challenging is only the extent to which social conditioning has a grip on you -- and this will vary from person to person. But I'm pretty sure that if a person with reasonable ethics had never heard of government, they would never come to the conclusion that "Hey, what we need around here is a coercive monopoly of force to organize everyone's lives. I shall call it 'the state'" -- any more than a man growing up on a desert island would suddenly conclude "You know what? Allah is the only god and Mohammad is his prophet." 100% of the percieved legitimacy comes from social conditioning.
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Old 10-27-2013, 14:51   #4
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But I'm pretty sure that if a person with reasonable ethics had never heard of government, they would never come to the conclusion that "Hey, what we need around here is a coercive monopoly of force to organize everyone's lives. I shall call it 'the state'"...
Right. Because families, clans and tribes use neither coercion nor any other forms of force on their members. Never have.

C'mon. You know more history and anthropology than that.
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Old 10-27-2013, 16:35   #5
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I think the most spot-on comment was that of politicians. They aren't random people selected from the general population. They're people who are especially interested in power and control, and therefore, have no principles.

I know this applies to many... or most of them, but this sure does describe Hillary.
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Old 10-27-2013, 17:01   #6
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Right. Because families, clans and tribes use neither coercion nor any other forms of force on their members. Never have.

C'mon. You know more history and anthropology than that.
A few hundred years ago, coercion and violence against the innocent was justified in everyone's mind by "the divine right of kings," and women were regarded as property you could abuse as you like. I don't regard that as "reasonable ethics."

I didn't mean to suggest that violence against the innocent would never occur to anyone. I'm talking about a civilized person who makes their living through productive trade, is not obsessed with controlling other people, and who would not personally resort to violence except in defense. That is a large group, but it is not everyone.
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Old 10-27-2013, 19:25   #7
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Apparently, I misunderstood you. I thought that your point was that people without government wouldn't invent a thing with coercive power over its members.

My counter-point was that the natural development of human society--family, clan, tribe--has always included an ability to coerce the members by the leadership. That's simply the way we are.
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Old 10-27-2013, 19:41   #8
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Apparently, I misunderstood you. I thought that your point was that people without government wouldn't invent a thing with coercive power over its members.

My counter-point was that the natural development of human society--family, clan, tribe--has always included an ability to coerce the members by the leadership. That's simply the way we are.
I understand how the point could be misunderstood. The frustration is that people who would never invent such a thing (most reasonable people) can be made to support it nevertheless because of social conditioning and simple historical precedent. Imagine someone arguing "divine right of kings is utter crap" to their fellow subjects 500 years ago, and you get the idea.
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Old 10-27-2013, 20:53   #9
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I appreciate the link. Interestingly, though much of what was discusses was new to me, I found none of it challenging to my way of thinking. It was logical and well-reasoned.

Sadly, there are so many people who are so accustomed to the tyranny and madness of our current system, that there is no hope of them ever turning to the path of freedom. It reminds me of the Matrix. They've been slaves for so long, they'll fight to maintain it.

I think the most spot-on comment was that of politicians. They aren't random people selected from the general population. They're people who are especially interested in power and control, and therefore, have no principles.
I haven't watched the vid yet, but the bold part made me think of it and i'm putting this here for anybody that wants to know- just google psychopathy hidden evil for lots more. Sociopaths run rampant in the kind of power structure we've allowed to happen here- or in any power structure for that matter.

It's the real story behind everything else. They're literally incapable of empathy, shame, remorse, basically all the emotions that make humans human. And they might make up 4% or even more of the population, nobody knows- and god only knows what percentage of the very most powerful. The dumb ones get locked up, the sly ones get elected. These are the people that can get up and lie in front of millions of people, over and over and over, with a smile, no matter how blatantly, or how often they're caught.

http://mydeadpony.tumblr.com/post/24...thic-influence




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Old 10-28-2013, 00:29   #10
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Sadly, there are so many people who are so accustomed to the tyranny and madness of our current system, that there is no hope of them ever turning to the path of freedom. It reminds me of the Matrix. They've been slaves for so long, they'll fight to maintain it.

None are more enslaved than those who think they are free.
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Old 10-28-2013, 14:12   #11
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This thread perfectly illustrates how Republican messaging isn't so horrible when Libertarians are thrown in the equation.
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Old 10-28-2013, 14:14   #12
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for later.
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Old 10-28-2013, 15:40   #13
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This thread perfectly illustrates how Republican messaging isn't so horrible when Libertarians are thrown in the equation.
Did you even listen to two minutes of the radio show that was linked?
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Old 10-28-2013, 19:49   #14
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It's the real story behind everything else. They're literally incapable of empathy, shame, remorse, basically all the emotions that make humans human. And they might make up 4% or even more of the population, nobody knows- and god only knows what percentage of the very most powerful.
They make up 100%.

The lure of not having to produce is overwhelming to the sociopathic.
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Old 10-28-2013, 19:51   #15
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This thread perfectly illustrates how Republican messaging isn't so horrible when Libertarians are thrown in the equation.
What is "republican messaging"? Can you give us a synopsis? Because it appears to be fairly murky as of late.
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Old 10-28-2013, 20:22   #16
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Let me guess, without watching a video rant that I can't play from here - "anarchocapitalism" is just a free market without government intervention? In other words, Laissez-faire relabeled by some guy who wants it to sound like his idea, rather than the system of trade that goes back to the cavemen? How original.
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Old 10-30-2013, 18:34   #17
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Did you even listen to two minutes of the radio show that was linked?
That's my point - the messengers in this thread are dissuading people from seeing any message in the video.

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What is "republican messaging"? Can you give us a synopsis? Because it appears to be fairly murky as of late.
I know Republican messaging is horrible, that's why I said it's horrible.

Liberals have a bad message but have good messengers. Conservatives have a good message but have bad messengers. Libertarians can have a good message but have even worse messengers, but are too arrogant to even acknowledge it.
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Old 10-30-2013, 20:10   #18
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That's my point - the messengers in this thread are dissuading people from seeing any message in the video.



I know Republican messaging is horrible, that's why I said it's horrible.

Liberals have a bad message but have good messengers. Conservatives have a good message but have bad messengers. Libertarians can have a good message but have even worse messengers, but are too arrogant to even acknowledge it.
Do me a favor and clue me into this "good message" because mostly what I see is ambiguous statements from both sides like "take America back" and such. I'm forced to ask myself, Take America back to what? Slavery? Segregation? Higher tax rates on the rich? More equitable pay for the middle class?

It's totally ambiguous. I could get behind it if "Taking America Back" meant going back to when CEO's weren't making 1750x the average pay of their employees and tax rates were higher for the top earners than they are for a typical teacher. That's the last time our economy actually worked.

If, on the other hand, they mean "Take America Back" to the good ole days of being able to lynch colored folks who got uppity and beat your wife for not having dinner on the table when you got home from work, no thanks. I like it now.
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Old 10-30-2013, 20:41   #19
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Here we go. Ryan with the racial stuff.
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Old 10-30-2013, 21:01   #20
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Do me a favor and clue me into this "good message" because mostly what I see is ambiguous statements from both sides like "take America back" and such. I'm forced to ask myself, Take America back to what? Slavery? Segregation? Higher tax rates on the rich? More equitable pay for the middle class?

It's totally ambiguous. I could get behind it if "Taking America Back" meant going back to when CEO's weren't making 1750x the average pay of their employees and tax rates were higher for the top earners than they are for a typical teacher. That's the last time our economy actually worked.

If, on the other hand, they mean "Take America Back" to the good ole days of being able to lynch colored folks who got uppity and beat your wife for not having dinner on the table when you got home from work, no thanks. I like it now.
See what i meant, you've been fed a lot of bull and here you are regurgitating it. Three paragraphs of total nonsense.

Here's one guy's take on it if you actually want to learn something. Let me know which parts you find confusing or ambiguous

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