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Old 08-09-2011, 09:29   #61
whenmonkeysfly
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Quote:
Originally Posted by texas 48 View Post
thanks for the data but did I miss the grains used
Crap, that's what happens when you get old! I corrected the post to reflect 8.6 Grains of Longshot. Thanks for pointing that out Tex!
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Old 08-24-2011, 10:59   #62
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I have trouble measuring LongShot to get consistent loads. It can be consistent for a few rounds, then jumps 0.5gr with one. The powder sticks to walls of Lee Pro AutoDisk. Static electricity?

Any remedial suggestion?
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Old 08-25-2011, 11:47   #63
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I wanted to post this data as well since I found it extremely easy to shoot and very accurate. Meets the Major Power Factor at 173+.

Hodgdon Longshot - 7.5 Grains
Rainer .40/10mm 165 Grain TC Bullet
Starline Brass
CCI-300 Large Pistol Primers
1.2450 OAL
5" Match Barrel (Wilson Combat Tactical Elite 1911 10mm)
99F, (VERY HOT & HUMID) Sea Level

Total Strings = 4
(Feet Per Second)

String 1
1) 1088.0 1.6
2) 1064.0 -22.4
3) 1107.0 20.6
4) 1116.0 29.6
5) 1090.0 3.6
6) 1086.0 -0.4
7) 1078.0 -8.4
8) 1062.0 -24.4

High: 1116.0
Low: 1062.0
E.S.: 54.0
Ave.: 1086.4
S.D.: 18.8
95%: ±16.8

String 2
1) 1067.0 -13.8
2) 1055.0 -25.8
3) 1083.0 2.2
4) 1084.0 3.2
5) 1085.0 4.2
6) 1080.0 -0.8
7) 1089.0 8.2
8) 1103.0 22.2

High: 1103.0
Low: 1055.0
E.S.: 48.0
Ave.: 1080.8
S.D.: 14.4
95%: ±12.9

String 3
1) 1086.0 -3.5
2) 1098.0 8.5
3) 1101.0 11.5
4) 1102.0 12.5
5) 1093.0 3.5
6) 1073.0 -16.5
7) 1075.0 -14.5
8) 1088.0 -1.5

High: 1102.0
Low: 1073.0
E.S.: 29.0
Ave.: 1089.5
S.D.: 11.1
95%: ±9.9

String 4
1) 1047.0 -28.0
2) 1077.0 2.0
3) 1070.0 -5.0
4) 1067.0 -8.0
5) 1085.0 10.0
6) 1068.0 -7.0
7) 1101.0 26.0
8) 1085.0 10.0

High: 1101.0
Low: 1047.0
E.S.: 54.0
Ave.: 1075.0
S.D.: 16.0
95%: ±14.3

(End Of Data)
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Old 08-25-2011, 12:06   #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ModGlock17 View Post
I have trouble measuring LongShot to get consistent loads. It can be consistent for a few rounds, then jumps 0.5gr with one. The powder sticks to walls of Lee Pro AutoDisk. Static electricity?

Any remedial suggestion?
ModGlock17,

I don't know anything about the Lee Pro AutoDisk (I use a Dillon 650XL), but I had a similar problem using used brass and Hornady One Shot Case Lube. New brass, no problem, which I found somewhat puzzling. I clean my brass with a liquid media, so static electricity from tumbling shouldn't necessarily be an issue, but maybe that's what's going on with yours? What kind of case lube are you using? Is the powder sticking to your dies too? I cleaned my powder die and it seemed to remedy my problem. I would be curious to what others think on this thread.
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Old 08-25-2011, 12:36   #65
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Is it just me or does anyone else find Longshot a little dirty?
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Old 08-25-2011, 16:17   #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whenmonkeysfly View Post
ModGlock17,

I don't know anything about the Lee Pro AutoDisk (I use a Dillon 650XL), but I had a similar problem using used brass and Hornady One Shot Case Lube. New brass, no problem, which I found somewhat puzzling. I clean my brass with a liquid media, so static electricity from tumbling shouldn't necessarily be an issue, but maybe that's what's going on with yours? What kind of case lube are you using? Is the powder sticking to your dies too? I cleaned my powder die and it seemed to remedy my problem. I would be curious to what others think on this thread.
Thanks for the reply. I use carbide die with Lee Classic Turret. I'm near "Lalaland, FL" (Disney) and as you know, humidity is high. I don't think our AC is taking out enough water from the air to make things prone to static. The Pro AutoDisk slides a disk with known volume under the powder container then slides it over to the charging die to drop the load.

BDot is superbly accurate. 800x can be any where from 0 to +0.5gr over my target weight (so I had to manually correct each case). And this is my first time with LongShot. Hogdon said 8.5 to 9.5gr for 180gr bullet. When I set it to 9.0gr, I will get that for a few cases, then all of a sudden, I get a 9.5gr!

I have to be convinced of its (or the whole dispensing system's) accuracy before I abandon my check on every case.

Since I don't have experience with LShot, I am not sure what is "normal" for it. So I am not sure I have a bad 1-lbs containter or not. Now, when I was done, I dumped the remainder of plastic dispenser back to container. That is when I notice it (quite a few flakes) tends to stick to the walls of the plastic dispenser, UNLIKE BDot and 800x. Had to tab it hard to make them drop. That's when the static electricity idea came to mind.

May be I should try wiping the outside of the dispenser with a slightly moist rag to neutralize potential static.

I was wondering you guys have the same stick-to-the-wall experience, since I think that is what gave rise to inconsistent loads.
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Old 08-25-2011, 16:31   #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ModGlock17 View Post

May be I should try wiping the outside of the dispenser with a slightly moist rag to neutralize potential static.

I was wondering you guys have the same stick-to-the-wall experience, since I think that is what gave rise to inconsistent loads.
I've heard of coating the inside of the powder measure / dispenser with powdered graphite. Its inert in small amounts (as related to gunpowder in cases) and can be bought in tiny tubes or simply rubbed off from a pencil.

I've used it on my Lee Primer Arm to assist with pivoting as its suggested liquid oil not be used.
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Old 08-25-2011, 19:05   #68
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3 things

I'll qualify all this with the fact that I'm new to reloading and the 10mm.

1) I have been reloading with Longshot and have seen a bit of static cling on the sides of my RCBS powder dispenser. I get some variation in weight but not .5 grains. I use a powder baffle in mine.

2) I seem to be getting higher velocities than others, to be brief I'm getting about 1330 fps from this:

New G20 sf (15 round mag), temp mid 70's, low humidity, 6,500 ft elevation:

180 grain XTP
9.5 grains Longshot
CCI 350 primers
1.260 COL
New Starline brass

Here are some dimensions on brass measured just up from the base:

New unfired - 0.421"
Once fired stock barrel 0.433"
Once fired Lone Wolf barrel 0.426"

3) I'm having problems with reliable feeding of this load (jamming), I have also used Montana Gold CMJ, 180 gr. I have a post in the 10 ring but hoped that I would get some additional feedback from this group. Thanks to those of you that have replied from the 10ring. Hopefully the cross post won't make the Mods mad. I'm really quite surprised no one has commented on the tendency to feed left as being a possible problem. Any additional insight would be greatly appreciated. If this gun won't fire this type of load reliably it is of no use to me.

http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/show...48&postcount=1
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Old 08-25-2011, 19:28   #69
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You may want to use a Lee Factory crimp die or go to a shorter OAL and reduce the charge by .1 or .2. I believe a brighter crimp would be the answer to you jamming providing your mag and mag springs are good. What weight recoil spring are you using.
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Old 08-25-2011, 19:50   #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by texas 48 View Post
You may want to use a Lee Factory crimp die or go to a shorter OAL and reduce the charge by .1 or .2. I believe a brighter crimp would be the answer to you jamming providing your mag and mag springs are good. What weight recoil spring are you using.
I should have provided a bit more information here. Regarding the jamming it is nose up to the left. This has happened repeatedly in stock form as well as with a 22# spring and SS guide rod. I have reduced the OAL to 1.255" with no change (I didn't reduce the load, but should have). I'm currently using RCBS carbide dies.

I had thought about a tighter crimp though it seems good now, as far as holding the bullet securely (takes a lot of pounding, with a dynamic bullet puller, to get it to move). Maybe I should give that a try but I don't want to go with too much crimp either.

Last edited by mtn_hunter; 08-25-2011 at 21:15..
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Old 08-26-2011, 11:11   #71
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ModGlock17,

As we know, 0.5 grain variances is not acceptable and especially when you are working toward maximum loads. (0.1 grain variance is okay for a drop powder measure.) No variance for a trickle powder measure and I weigh a second time here on either my digital scale or beam scale.

Of course, "maximum" loads are all over the place depending on where the information is obtained. I have used several reloading books, along with several online handloading sites (paid and free), along with published data from others on this website in my "max" loads.

When I'm working anywhere near "my" max loads, I weigh all my charges a second time. I also make sure my digital scale is calibrated and zeroed. I then recheck the zero periodically, because I've found it "drifting" over time.

When I'm working in "new" territory with a 10mm powder, I will use my Smith & Wesson 610 Revolver with a 6 1/2" barrel for testing since it (they) are built on an "N-frame". Chronograph the loads and look for signs of over pressure. Then I adjust the loads for one of my semi-autos.

I like NickE10mm suggestion using graphite. I have also thought about using a "static-free" dryer sheet and lightly wiping down components. (It will make your handloads smell pretty too.)

I'm in Florida, so heat and humidity are extremely high. I use a dehumidifier in an air-conditioned area.

I have noticed some Longshot powder sticking to the lip and sides of the powder container. I also noticed that plastic scale powder/funnel pans allow powder to stick to them as well, so I use metal scale powder/funnel pans (RCBS makes a good one.)

IMHO, I think wiping down components with graphite and/or an anti-static cloth should help significantly.
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Old 08-27-2011, 05:15   #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whenmonkeysfly View Post
I like NickE10mm suggestion using graphite. I have also thought about using a "static-free" dryer sheet and lightly wiping down components. (It will make your handloads smell pretty too.)

..............
IMHO, I think wiping down components with graphite and/or an anti-static cloth should help significantly.
Thank you Gentlemen. I will try both of your suggestions, as my inventory ran low because I just shot some groups with LongShot weights 9.0gr, 9.2gr, 9.4gr on 180gr bullets.

Long Shot 9.0 on plated Berry180FN
G20 6" 1,256fps std 18.7 630 ft-lbs
G29 stock 1,079fps std 21.3 465 ft-lbs

Speed delta 177fps 165 ft-lbs between two guns


LongShot 9.2 on Nosler180HP
G20 6" 1,271fps std 14.1 646 ft-lbs
G29 stock 1,100fps std 18.5 484 ft-lbs

Speed delta 171fps 162 ft-lbs between two guns




LongShot 9.4 on Nosler180HP
G20 6" 1,255fps std 34.1 629 ft-lbs
G29 stock 1,087fps std 20.4 472 ft-lbs

Speed delta 168fps 157 ft-lbs between two guns



Observations:
1. Optimum Longshot weight for 180gr bullet is 9.2gr with tightest spread.
2. Plated Berry can be very accurate with Longshot 9.0gr
3. LongShot 9.4 appeared to worsen with speed and spread. Waisted powder above 9.2gr weight.

In the same session, I shot my new toy, KelTec Sub2000 using 9mm rounds.
Federal 9mm 115gr (Wal-Mart) 1431fps std 9.1 523 ft-lbs
Georgia Arms 115gr 1357fps std 15.1 470 ft-lbs

What's interesting here is that 115gr 9mm on the Sub2000 (16" barrel) has more energy than 180gr 10mm with LongShots on a less efficient G29.
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Old 08-27-2011, 19:28   #73
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I cotton swabbed (Q-tip) the inside of the charge tube & charge riser, as well as the release hole in the powder container. Very black and dirty.

After that, charge drops are spot on.

What is surprising to me: 800x meters very accurately! But there's a trick: fill the charge container with at least 50% full of 800x. I think the total powder weight inside the container help force to powder down, in much more consisten manner. The inaccuracy starting to increase when the container had less than an eigth full.

Tip/Rule:
1. Clean you drop tube every 500 rounds or so.
2. Keep the powder container more than half full, to get accurate dispensing.
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Old 09-05-2011, 13:07   #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ModGlock17 View Post
I cotton swabbed (Q-tip) the inside of the charge tube & charge riser, as well as the release hole in the powder container. Very black and dirty.

After that, charge drops are spot on.

What is surprising to me: 800x meters very accurately! But there's a trick: fill the charge container with at least 50% full of 800x. I think the total powder weight inside the container help force to powder down, in much more consisten manner. The inaccuracy starting to increase when the container had less than an eigth full.
Tip/Rule:
1. Clean you drop tube every 500 rounds or so.
2. Keep the powder container more than half full, to get accurate dispensing.
That's pretty standard advice regardless of the powder being used. I never let my measure get below 50%.
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Old 10-03-2011, 21:20   #75
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Some Longshot Data

10MM - Longshot - 200 gr Hornady HP/XTP
Stock G20SF - 20# Wolf and Steel Rod
String 1 - 8.2 gr - CCI300
String 2 - 8.4 gr - CCI300
String 3 - 8.2 gr - CCI350 - one rd got away, but shows on target
String 4 - 8.4 gr - CCI350

** String1 String2 String3 String4
** FPS FPS FPS FPS
LO 1080 1108 1106 1106
HI 1132 1143 1140 1154
AV 1102 1125 1115 1131
ES 51.48 34.35 33.26 48.44
SD 15.00 9.21 10.72 14.73
ME 539 562 552 568
CoV 1.36 0.82 0.96 1.30
RD #1 1099 1127 1106 1106
RD #2 1080 1121 1110 1132
RD #3 1091 1128 1124 1124
RD #4 1094 1131 1116 1139
RD #5 1105 1143 1108 1147
RD #6 1103 1108 1110 1112
RD #7 1097 1117 1114 1137
RD #8 1122 1120 1140 1133
RD #9 1098 1125 1109 1125
RD #10 1132 1127 ### 1154

Targets at 25ft, Chrony at 10 ft

Target String 1
[URL]http://i541.photobucket.com/albums/gg374/LittleLiver/10mm/Target_01.jpg[/URL]

Target String 2
[URL]http://i541.photobucket.com/albums/gg374/LittleLiver/10mm/Target_02.jpg[/URL]

Target String 3
[URL]http://i541.photobucket.com/albums/gg374/LittleLiver/10mm/Target_03.jpg[/URL]

Target String 4
[URL]http://i541.photobucket.com/albums/gg374/LittleLiver/10mm/Target_04.jpg[/URL]

I was more worried about not hitting the chrony, where my brass landed, if the weather was going to change and rain on me, than I was about my aim.

Last edited by liver; 10-03-2011 at 21:24..
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Old 11-04-2011, 17:14   #76
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180 Hornady XTP 8.9grs Longshot
Stock G29 W/ 21# Wolff Spring and guide rod
New Starline Brass 1.260 COL
63 degrees 10' from Chrono
Lo 1147 Hi 1173 Av 1164

Load functioned great, still launching brass pretty far. I will probably bump it a few more grains and call it a good all around load. Serious enough to get the job done but not overly hot or too hard on the hand.
Brass looked great.
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Old 11-05-2011, 08:27   #77
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Fusion Longslide data

Pistol: Fusion Traditional Hunter 10mm longslide, 6" bbl, fully supported
Temperature: 72 degrees, sunny, beautiful, no wind
Altitude: 500ft or so

NONE of these loads exhibited any bulges whatsoever. The max longshot loads did have a TINY bit of primer flattening but nothing out of the ordinary and nothing as flat as DT loads always show.

(LO, HI, AVG, ES, SD) - most were 5 shot strings to save ammo and $$

200gr XTP
7.6gr LS
1164
1189
1179
25.18
9.94

200gr XTP
7.8gr LS
1187
1206
1193
18.82
7.34

200gr XTP
8.0gr LS
1187
1249
1207
61.91
21.8

200gr XTP
8.2gr LS
1194
1272
1229
77.47
26.21

165gr GS
9.0gr LS
1342
1430
1390
87.75
33.22

180gr SXT (bonded)
7.0gr LS
1109
1182
1148
72.28
28.87


This was my first time doing a work-up with Longshot. Lovin' this powder! More to come in this space. I've got a series of 8.4-9.0gr loads I'm working up to attempt to map the performance.

NOTE** I'm wondering if my high ES's are due to a problem with consistent metering with the Lee Adjustable Charge Bar. Will test this theory out soon.
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Old 11-20-2011, 21:30   #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nickE10mm View Post
Pistol: Fusion Traditional Hunter 10mm longslide, 6" bbl, fully supported
Temperature: 72 degrees, sunny, beautiful, no wind
Altitude: 500ft or so

NONE of these loads exhibited any bulges whatsoever. The max longshot loads did have a TINY bit of primer flattening but nothing out of the ordinary and nothing as flat as DT loads always show.

(LO, HI, AVG, ES, SD) - most were 5 shot strings to save ammo and $$

200gr XTP
7.6gr LS
1164
1189
1179
25.18
9.94

200gr XTP
7.8gr LS
1187
1206
1193
18.82
7.34

200gr XTP
8.0gr LS
1187
1249
1207
61.91
21.8

200gr XTP
8.2gr LS
1194
1272
1229
77.47
26.21

165gr GS
9.0gr LS
1342
1430
1390
87.75
33.22

180gr SXT (bonded)
7.0gr LS
1109
1182
1148
72.28
28.87



This was my first time doing a work-up with Longshot. Lovin' this powder! More to come in this space. I've got a series of 8.4-9.0gr loads I'm working up to attempt to map the performance.

NOTE** I'm wondering if my high ES's are due to a problem with consistent metering with the Lee Adjustable Charge Bar. Will test this theory out soon.

Hey my friend, where did you get those 180gr SXT Bonded bullets to hand load?


Thanks!



CM
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Old 11-20-2011, 21:34   #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CanyonMan View Post
Hey my friend, where did you get those 180gr SXT Bonded bullets to hand load?


Thanks!



CM
Good observation, bud.

I pulled them from some .40SW defense ammo. (I used to have a conversion bbl so I had some old ammo laying around)
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Old 01-23-2012, 19:51   #80
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In the Memeory of Mike Willard / Mudrush

10mm Reloading Forum
Mike Willard at SwampFox Ammo died November 5th 2011
http://www.stoudenmiredowling.com/do...?intProdID=414

SWAMPFOX PREMIUM


MAXIMUM VELOCITY AMMUNITION


SwampFox Premium
Maximum Velocity Ammunition
10mm Auto-200gr Hornady XTP
1240 fps@muzzle - Lot#120110
sfp10mmHXTP

I pulled down rounds from this box of his ammo and this is what I learned...

The Starline cartridge contained 9.4 grains of Hodgdon LongShot, COAL @ 1.250”, Primers possibly CCI 300, as sold to the public.
I verified the charge weight on two scales (digital & balance beam), in the effort to learn what Mike was producing for his customers.


Mike Willard / Mudrush discussed this load on Glock Talk in a response to Kegs question of how did he obtain 1325 fps using the Hornady 200 grain XTP. This link to the discussion at Post #20
http://glocktalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1357227 Date 07-23-2011, 22:19 #20

This is the load he shared to us on the forum...
200gr @ 1325 fps (XTP & FMJ)10gr LongShot 300cci primer. 1.250” col


I will add here to be very cautious as with any internet data, using this information to handload ammunition will strickly be your responsibility and risk!w/ AFTERMARKET FULLY SUPPORTED barrel ONLY! 22lbs recoil springs! Loads should reduced for use in 6" or longer barrels!

This page was created to honor Mike Willard and Swamp Fox Ammo that many of us here came to know as; a high quality product as being the real deal and true 10mm ammo!

The
SHADOW
Knows!

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