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Old 06-08-2014, 13:38   #1
nickE10mm
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Opinion: will a plated FP expand like a JSP?

Hey friends ...

I just picked up 500-200gr Xtreme plated FP bullets to play around with and, after I ordered, I got to thinking: these are simply soft lead with a think plating.... they may very well act like a soft point in flesh and expand....

What does everyone think? Does anyone have firsthand experience?

I've done expansion tests on Rainier/Berry's HOLLOWPOINT bullets in 10mm and they expanded VERY nicely... I wonder if these 200gr plinkers I bought might actually expand in tough flesh (not that I expect to use them with so many other better options, but I am still curious).

Check it: http://www.xtremebullets.com/Product...-200RNFP-B0500

Just brainstorming. Thanks in advance, all!
Nick
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Old 06-08-2014, 19:17   #2
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I have wondered the same. All the plated bullets I have ever shot (mostly Xtreme) ended up in a bullet trap or berm.

I saw this, probably not exactly what you were looking for..

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Old 06-08-2014, 19:54   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WeeWilly View Post
I have wondered the same. All the plated bullets I have ever shot (mostly Xtreme) ended up in a bullet trap or berm.

I saw this, probably not exactly what you were looking for..

230RN plated 45 acp bullet ART after hitting a steel plate at 40+ yards - YouTube
I mean. YEA ... :-) that is at least what i'm GETTING at. It might be that they don't expand, or expand fast enough... Or they might even expand TOO QUICKLY as it looks like this .45 did.

Time will tell....
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Old 06-10-2014, 02:24   #4
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I'm gonna guess no. Sure the lead is soft, but I really can't see it expanding any meaningful amount.

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Old 06-10-2014, 04:54   #5
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You can HP them, a gold dot is a soft plated hp bullet.

I will have to shoot some that I have hp'd in water jugs
and see.
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Old 06-10-2014, 11:55   #6
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That is right about the Speer Gold Dot being plated, basically a bonded bullet through plating.

I have not really looked, but it would be really interesting to see a gel test of the various HP plated bullets from Xtreme, etc.

Might very well be a great performer at a fraction of the price of a Gold Dot, etc.
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Old 06-13-2014, 18:01   #7
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Got my bullets today... (yay!) ....

Couldn't wait.

Took one of the new, shiny 200gr FP projectiles and banged it with a hammer. (lol)

It was everything I'd hoped it to be .... HOWEVER ... I wouldn't say that the lead felt "soft" exactly. I couple hard pounds and it was a quarter of its length. No shearing or cracking of the plating. Bullet feels real tough.

Wish I had a genuine JSP to ALSO pound with a hammer to compare "smashability" against.

I sure am scientific, eh?
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Old 06-13-2014, 21:39   #8
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I have found Xtreme to be very tough bullets, compared to other plated brands. I think Berry's is the softest (I have not tried their heavy plated versions).

I treat xtreme just like jacketed. I am going to get some of their hex hollow points and study their expansion when I get time.
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Old 06-18-2014, 23:05   #9
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They won't expand, just try one in wet pack or water. They may deform, but not expand. Shooting bullets into semi sold mat'l ir pounding with a hammer, not like shooting into flesh.
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Old 06-19-2014, 00:17   #10
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No!!!!
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Old 06-19-2014, 23:36   #11
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I had some Ranier plated 115gr HP that I loaded in 9mm to 1140fps. I recovered a couple of them shot into a soft, muddy, berm. They didn't expand at all, just deformed at the tip. Not very scientific, but it was enough to convince me that they were pretty much useless as an expanding hollow point bullet. At the time, I was buying these as target bullets, and was willing to pay a little bit of a premium to get the hollow points instead of the RN's. It wasn't really a good value from a practical perspective.

I think I still have some of these loaded, I might try to do a water jug test with them vs. a JHP and see how they stack up.
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Old 06-21-2014, 19:13   #12
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From my testing, Rainier bullet in gel....

FP, don't expand. They somewhat tear drop and I say somewhat. Think of it like knocking off the sharp edges.

PHP, They are cheap HP and behave like cheap hollow points. If everything is right, they expand nicely. IF things are not exactly right they don't or don't expand like expected. They do tend to expand at slower velocities than premium JHPs.
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Old 06-22-2014, 08:02   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RWBlue View Post
From my testing, Rainier bullet in gel....

FP, don't expand. They somewhat tear drop and I say somewhat. Think of it like knocking off the sharp edges.

PHP, They are cheap HP and behave like cheap hollow points. If everything is right, they expand nicely. IF things are not exactly right they don't or don't expand like expected. They do tend to expand at slower velocities than premium JHPs.
Sounds accurate.

I've had Rainier HP's expend VERY nicely quite often but I'm sure they have their bad moments, too. This is my first box of plated flat points from Xtreme... they look really nice but I don't really know what to expect terminally (even if they ARE just practice rounds).

Thanks all
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Old 06-22-2014, 11:35   #14
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I've got a couple random thoughts on it. Whether they expand or not will be mainly determined by the hardness of the alloy and the velocity. Plated lead bullets tend to be pretty hard to avoid leading.

The only soft points I know of in .400" are the new Federal load, which worked stunningly and the COR-BON BCSP, which worked about as terribly as other COR-BON products. When I shot it in gelatin, there was basically zero expansion.

As far as JHP bullets go, water will typically show you the most expansion possible. I'm not sure how that relates to soft point or plated solids, but it ought to at least give you an idea of whether they are capable of expanding.

My entirely inexpert opinion would be that you won't get any expansion but I wouldn't put a bet on it.

ETA: be sure to post video and/or pics and data when you test.
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Old 06-22-2014, 11:45   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew Wiggin View Post
I've got a couple random thoughts on it. Whether they expand or not will be mainly determined by the hardness of the alloy and the velocity. Plated lead bullets tend to be pretty hard to avoid leading.

The only soft points I know of in .400" are the new Federal load, which worked stunningly and the COR-BON BCSP, which worked about as terribly as other COR-BON products. When I shot it in gelatin, there was basically zero expansion.

As far as JHP bullets go, water will typically show you the most expansion possible. I'm not sure how that relates to soft point or plated solids, but it ought to at least give you an idea of whether they are capable of expanding.

My entirely inexpert opinion would be that you won't get any expansion but I wouldn't put a bet on it.

ETA: be sure to post video and/or pics and data when you test.
Yea Andrew .... I can tell by how many HEAVY whacks with a 10lb hammer it takes to deform the bullet that it probably won't expand. I had originally thought that they might use a VERY SOFT alloy (to save on cost?) under a plating to prevent leading.

Looks like their lead is quite a bit harder that I'd thought.
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Old 07-09-2014, 06:20   #16
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I did quite a bit of testing with the flat point I had made. A 10mm,180gr with a .35 meplate. Just wheelweight with a gas check. I recovered one from a deer, it went through 8 inches of mud on the off side. I also shot a lot of wet newspaper.
My experience is that with enough speed they do tend to mash and flatten out some. But my experience has also been that a flat point is far more destructive than a hollow point and penetrates far deeper.
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Old 07-09-2014, 19:57   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by frank4570 View Post
I did quite a bit of testing with the flat point I had made. A 10mm,180gr with a .35 meplate. Just wheelweight with a gas check. I recovered one from a deer, it went through 8 inches of mud on the off side. I also shot a lot of wet newspaper.
My experience is that with enough speed they do tend to mash and flatten out some. But my experience has also been that a flat point is far more destructive than a hollow point and penetrates far deeper.
Agreed... Although understand my post was asking about PLATED flat points rather than wide cast hunting bullets.

But yes, I'd agree that a flat point cast bullet will outperform a HP almost anytime.
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Old 07-09-2014, 23:37   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by frank4570 View Post
I did quite a bit of testing with the flat point I had made. A 10mm,180gr with a .35 meplate. Just wheelweight with a gas check. I recovered one from a deer, it went through 8 inches of mud on the off side. I also shot a lot of wet newspaper.
My experience is that with enough speed they do tend to mash and flatten out some. But my experience has also been that a flat point is far more destructive than a hollow point and penetrates far deeper.
The devil is in the details.

If FP was the end all be all, then there wouldn't be premium JHPs for personal protection.

On the flip side, a lot of deer have gone down to lever action rifles and revolvers using cast lead flat point bullets.

IMHO, Plated flat point bullets are the worst of both worlds. They don't expand and don't have a large enough FP to do it's thing.
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Old 07-10-2014, 17:30   #19
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Quote:
If FP was the end all be all, then there wouldn't be premium JHPs for personal protection.

On the flip side, a lot of deer have gone down to lever action rifles and revolvers using cast lead flat point bullets.
I tend to be on the other side of this. I think that heavy, cast FP bullets designed for hunting are FAR superior to their jacketed hunting cousins. I think that, at least with handguns, cast hunting bullets with wide meplats ARE the "premium" bullets and the jacketed are ONLY good for self defense.... at least I'm leaning more that way every day.

Quote:
IMHO, Plated flat point bullets are the worst of both worlds. They don't expand and don't have a large enough FP to do it's thing.
Yep... not as hard or accurate as true FMJ's and not enough meplat to be effective. And, not soft enough to expand like a softpoint.

At least I still like them for target
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Old 07-10-2014, 18:53   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nickE10mm View Post
Agreed... Although understand my post was asking about PLATED flat points rather than wide cast hunting bullets.

But yes, I'd agree that a flat point cast bullet will outperform a HP almost anytime.
Yeah, I understand they are not exactly the same. I was just offering up something for the sake of comparison.
It would be interesting to do some tests to see how much difference one meplate makes compared to another.
My own bullets made very big holes, but that didn't seem to change much if they flattened out a bit.
Maybe some tests are in order.
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