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Old 08-17-2010, 04:36   #101
JTknives
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I will admit im a powder whore which stems from being addicted to velocity . the other day at a friends house i ran some of my hot loads over my crono. we where at around 6000ft elevation and it was around 85deg i think. i was shooting my own designed 210gr WFN cast boolit out of my glock 20 with a lone wolf barrel. i started at 8.6gr of IMR 800x and CCI 350 primers. i will say this that for the heavy bullets CCi 350 primers are the way to go but once you get down to the 135gr bullets CCI 300 primers are where its at as the mag primers seam to cause a pressure spikes/ flattend primers. any way i loaded these long at 1.27-1.275. my cast boolits are the same length as the bear tooth cast. but seating them longer gave me a touch more case capacity. so any way i shot 5 over the crono and my velocity was between 1400fps to 1412fps using 10.4gr of imr 800-x. talk about a stomper. the primers looked a little flatend but still had rounded edges. the case head expansion was at or less then DT 155gr barnes loads. and the brass almost drops freely all the way into the chamber. just a lite tap to seat it all the way and very easy to remove (same as DT tested ammo). all signs point to being ok except im over book max so don't try at home with out working up slowly and using your brain. i have now loaded some 200gr XTP bullets using the same powder from 9.75gr to 12.00gr. but there is one difference and that is that i loaded them supper long. and when i say supper long i mean supper long. they are loaded to an OAL of 1.39, this is not a type-o, thy are 1.39". i did some carfule measuring of chamber and throat deapth and case length and seat my bullets .01 short of the throat. which is around what match bench rest shooters do. i talked to my friend who shoots a lot of long range bench rest and said .01 off the throat is a good place to be. these of course will not fit in the mag. well one will with one in the chamber. i will be testing these rounds and if thy work how i plan thy will then i will be modifying my mag so i can fit 3-5 round in the mag. this is going to be only a hunting round so i dont need a full mag full. i will keep you updated

Last edited by JTknives; 08-17-2010 at 04:38..
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Old 08-29-2010, 10:04   #102
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JTknives View Post
I will admit im a powder whore which stems from being addicted to velocity . the other day at a friends house i ran some of my hot loads over my crono. we where at around 6000ft elevation and it was around 85deg i think. i was shooting my own designed 210gr WFN cast boolit out of my glock 20 with a lone wolf barrel. i started at 8.6gr of IMR 800x and CCI 350 primers. i will say this that for the heavy bullets CCi 350 primers are the way to go but once you get down to the 135gr bullets CCI 300 primers are where its at as the mag primers seam to cause a pressure spikes/ flattend primers. any way i loaded these long at 1.27-1.275. my cast boolits are the same length as the bear tooth cast. but seating them longer gave me a touch more case capacity. so any way i shot 5 over the crono and my velocity was between 1400fps to 1412fps using 10.4gr of imr 800-x. talk about a stomper. the primers looked a little flatend but still had rounded edges. the case head expansion was at or less then DT 155gr barnes loads. and the brass almost drops freely all the way into the chamber. just a lite tap to seat it all the way and very easy to remove (same as DT tested ammo). all signs point to being ok except im over book max so don't try at home with out working up slowly and using your brain. i have now loaded some 200gr XTP bullets using the same powder from 9.75gr to 12.00gr. but there is one difference and that is that i loaded them supper long. and when i say supper long i mean supper long. they are loaded to an OAL of 1.39, this is not a type-o, thy are 1.39". i did some carfule measuring of chamber and throat deapth and case length and seat my bullets .01 short of the throat. which is around what match bench rest shooters do. i talked to my friend who shoots a lot of long range bench rest and said .01 off the throat is a good place to be. these of course will not fit in the mag. well one will with one in the chamber. i will be testing these rounds and if thy work how i plan thy will then i will be modifying my mag so i can fit 3-5 round in the mag. this is going to be only a hunting round so i dont need a full mag full. i will keep you updated
Sounds like fun - be careful though!
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Old 08-30-2010, 00:24   #103
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I tested the rounds. i milled out the frount of a mag to handle these long rounds. i worked my way up to 11.00 gr of 800x. i must say i dont think its a safe load. my glock fired them fine but i think by giving it more case capacity the powder is to fast for it. but at 11gr i got 1500 fps. like i said NOT SAFE. i think a slower powder needs to be used with the larger case capacity. I will keep you up dated with my findings. also the XTPs held togather fine at that speed and penatrated about 20" of water.
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Old 08-30-2010, 09:28   #104
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JTKnives wrote:
Quote:
but there is one difference and that is that i loaded them supper long. and when i say supper long i mean supper long. they are loaded to an OAL of 1.39, this is not a type-o, thy are 1.39".
JT, you are free to do as you wish... but IMHO...this changes the cartridge more to leaning toward a 10mm Magnum and are out of the normal 10mm spec of 1.25" or 1.26" COAL, and pressures are surely over the specs as well when comparing to the data of the 10mm Magnum.

For your sake, I hope your gun stays together, because I'd hate to read a story that you were struck in the head by the slide. This would give yet another "Black Eye" to you and the handloading community.

This is why I tell people to carefully read what people post, info can me left out, mis-stated, modified items/guns and typo's! Then there are some "LUCKY" people that get away with stuff once in a while...then the "LAW OF ADVERAGES" catch up in one swift move!
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Old 09-05-2010, 21:32   #105
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Quote:
Originally Posted by _The_Shadow View Post
JTKnives wrote:

JT, you are free to do as you wish... but IMHO...this changes the cartridge more to leaning toward a 10mm Magnum and are out of the normal 10mm spec of 1.25" or 1.26" COAL, and pressures are surely over the specs as well when comparing to the data of the 10mm Magnum.

For your sake, I hope your gun stays together, because I'd hate to read a story that you were struck in the head by the slide. This would give yet another "Black Eye" to you and the handloading community.

This is why I tell people to carefully read what people post, info can me left out, mis-stated, modified items/guns and typo's! Then there are some "LUCKY" people that get away with stuff once in a while...then the "LAW OF ADVERAGES" catch up in one swift move!
i under stand what your saying and understand. I have begun to go a different direction and will no longer be using the 800x in my long loaded rounds. I'm thinking that i will need a slower powder if i continue to play with the long loads.
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Old 12-01-2010, 00:06   #106
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Charges of 800x varied in my Lee progressive auto disk powder from 11.5-12.0 in the 1.36 cc disk, so verify if you use the lee auto thrower

This load gave me an extremely small "smile" on my brass, just about a line drawn with fine tip pen, so this would be the MAX I would load my stock G-29 ranged from 1480-1504 fps, I'm happy with the Nosler 135gn HP and Winchester LP primers, not using mag primes. 1.250" and the brass flew about 20'

KKM barrel and wolf 21# spring on the way!

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Old 12-07-2010, 06:46   #107
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When to increase spring load rating.

I have a G20 and have settled on several loads using 800X. I am currently using a Wolff steel recoil rod with a 17lb spring. I have Wolff springs in 20 and 22 lb but have not worked much with them. I also have a 6"KKM barrel. Now for the question. What spring and barrel woulfd you more experiences shooters be using? I have worked with both barrels and all the springs and sometimes I get faailure to feed if I have the heavier springs on the KKM barrel installed. I'm just looking for opinions before I burn up a bunch of ammo. Below are the loads that I have settled on. They all consist of 800X and CCI 350 primers. Thanks for your input.

155g XTP with 11.0g 800X
180g XTP with 10.0g 800X
180g GD with 10.0g 800X
200g XTP with 9.3g 800X
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Old 12-13-2010, 17:13   #108
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I have the 21 lb, not enough, go with the highest power one Wolff Sells, I'm ordering one of the 23 lb spings
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Old 01-15-2011, 16:34   #109
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Took some loads to the range today. Here's what I came up with. As always, I'm not a loadologist, so YMMV.

Sunny, 55 degrees, sea level
Glock 20 with LWD longslide and 6" LWD barrel. Stock recoil spring, 1.27" COAL with new starline brass

180gr XTP with 10.5 gr 800x and CCI 300

1451
1448
1440
1445
1447

155gr XTP with 12.0 gr of 800x and CCI 300

1628
1664
1626
1636
1641

200gr XTP with 9.2 gr of 800x and CCI 300

1322
1337
1346
1336
1328

Buffalo Bore 220gr loads (very smokey)

1217
1225
1230
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Old 01-15-2011, 17:06   #110
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Nice loads there, Esh!

Are you seeing any pressure signs on the 200gr load? That seems like a fantastic deer load!
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Old 01-15-2011, 18:27   #111
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Am I pushing it too far?

I have been working uo a maximum load load for the 10mm. I am using a stock G20, 180 grain bullets, and 800x.
I startyed at 8.5 grains, the listed max, and worked up in .5 grain increments. I am up to 11.0 grainswith 800x and 180 grain tmj with no pressure signs. I only fired three rounds as I know I am way over max. I was just trying to see at what level I would see signs of excess pressure and I have not yet. I am not going to go any higher, just wanted to know what you guys think.

Thanks, Jon
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Old 01-15-2011, 18:39   #112
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Nice loads there, Esh!

Are you seeing any pressure signs on the 200gr load? That seems like a fantastic deer load!

Thanks, that's the purpose on the 180 or 200. Haven't decided which one yet. Here's a picture of the brass. The first is the 200 grain load. The second is the 180 grain load. I don't see anything that makes me worry, but I don't want to go any higher. It's plenty fast at those speeds.
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Old 01-15-2011, 19:42   #113
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Esh View Post
Thanks, that's the purpose on the 180 or 200. Haven't decided which one yet. Here's a picture of the brass. The first is the 200 grain load. The second is the 180 grain load. I don't see anything that makes me worry, but I don't want to go any higher. It's plenty fast at those speeds.
I don't SEE anything either, however, be aware that case head expansion is a more accurate indicator of pressure than primer condition. Measure a fresh FACTORY load before and after firing in THAT barrel... then, do the same with your reloads and compare to what's within spec for 10mm.

Otherwise, looks really good. 200gr XTP at anything 1300 and up is nothing short of a monster 10mm load if you ask me. 6" tubes make it easier to get to that velocity, too. AHHHH YES. BTW, the last two deer I took with my Razorback were both with Doubletap 200gr XTP's at quoted boxflap of 1250fps (I'm guessing a bit under 1200fps ACTUAL velocity). They worked very very well. I'd think 1300fps would be RIGHT where I wanted my velocity at for hunting.

I'd love to see some expansion pics of 200gr XTP impact at over 1300fps in wet phonebook. That would be good reading, right there.
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Old 01-15-2011, 23:02   #114
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I'd love to see some expansion pics of 200gr XTP impact at over 1300fps in wet phonebook. That would be good reading, right there.
here is a pic of two 200gr XTPs that i shot into 2 liter pop bottles. I clocked them at over 1400fps. i cant remember the exact number but i'm thinking 1450-1460fps. i was wondering if thy would hold together for elk hunting and thy are at like 95% weight retention.
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Old 01-15-2011, 23:05   #115
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JTknives View Post
here is a pic of two 200gr XTPs that i shot into 2 liter pop bottles. I clocked them at over 1400fps. i cant remember the exact number but i'm thinking 1450-1460fps. i was wondering if thy would hold together for elk hunting and thy are at like 95% weight retention.
Very nice, but how on earth did you get a 200gr XTP going 1400+ in a 10mm???
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Old 01-15-2011, 23:34   #116
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Very nice, but how on earth did you get a 200gr XTP going 1400+ in a 10mm???
I did it with 10.4gr of IMR 800-X, "don't try at home".
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Old 01-23-2011, 23:27   #117
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Data from today, 65-70 temp, 2500' Glock 29 with KKM + wolff 23 lb spring, 800x and Tula LP Mag primers:

180 gr Privi HP 9.2 gr 1.260'' = 1250 fps
180 gr Privi HP 9.7 gr 1.250'' = 1300 fps

150 gr Nosler HP 11.0 gr 1.260 = 1480 fps



Update today 27JAN11, same temp, sea level same gun ect above:

170 gr Nosler HP 10.3 gr 1.260 = 1375 fps

200 gr XTP hp 8.5 gr 1.260 = 1160

200 gr XTP hp 9.0 gr 1.260 = 1200

200 gr XTP hp 9.3 gr 1.260 = 1220

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Old 01-28-2011, 14:49   #118
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Really wish I had an answer as to why all published load listings for 800x stop at around 32k psi, where they go up to 36k or so with other powders. Its almost as if they are scared of printing the velocities... lol

It COULD be because the powder is so hard to meter and the pressure curve steepens when you get up around 9gr (200gr bullet) ... OR.... it could be because stock barrels ironically often don't have enough support for the original Norma spec loadings .....

....but otherwise, I see no rational reason why its done.
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Old 01-28-2011, 15:36   #119
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Also, does anyone have firsthand experience loading up the nuclear loads from this thread in a stock Razorback barrel? I'd be interested to see how its barrel compared with aftermarket KKM / Storm Lake / Jarvis barrels.

I, personally, have never seen ANY smilies or ANY expansion firing any loads and that includes DT and BB loads.
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Old 01-29-2011, 18:51   #120
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I, personally, have never seen ANY smilies or ANY expansion firing any loads and that includes DT and BB loads.
Go run a while through my threads. You'll see plenty. In fact, I just posted a couple today.

FTR: 9.3gr. 800x with 350s should be right about at 37,5kpsi based on earlier figures in this thread (pay close attention to what McNett lists, then look at books then extrapolate).

9.2gr. is where my hunting load is set at - I'm not sure the 200 xtp will hold up much above 1200 or so - when one hit my chrono doing about 1280 (est - since I could't read it), the chinsy plastic in the chrono tore the bullet in half! ~1/3 stayed with chrono and 2/3 went down range - Now that was an "edge" shot - it hit the edge of the top of the chono case - but that is a good indication of what the bullet will do when it hits bone.

I would really like to see some sort of bullet that is a bi-metal - hard cast lead + copper so both expansion and bone breaking could be done - not sure about the design though...
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