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Old 08-07-2004, 13:42   #21
BuffaloBo
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Re: Good question

Quote:
Originally posted by Medpilot 2
At 14.5gr. you would think so or be close to it. ]
The main reason why I shy away from AA powders is precisely that. It seems that the full potential of AA powders are limited to case capacity. Another reason is the relatively low velocity/charge ratios compared to other manufacturers. Also, it seems whenever I break the seal off a new container it seems to be gone in no time.

I haven't chrono-ed any #7 in 10mm yet, but have had success in 9mm.

One cannot contest the superior metering of AA powders, though.
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Old 08-07-2004, 14:42   #22
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Re: Re: Good question

Quote:
Originally posted by BuffaloBo
I haven't chrono-ed any #7 in 10mm yet, but have had success in 9mm.

One cannot contest the superior metering of AA powders, though.
Very true, it does meter well.

I have a pound of #7 just sitting on my shelf that I need to try out. Maybe in a few weeks or so.
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Old 08-12-2004, 16:51   #23
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Here are my #7 results

AA#7, 180gr Zero FMJ bullets, Starline brass, CCI 350, OAL 1.250"

G29 KKM barrel

10.3gr
Low: 1104
High:1125
Ave: 1115

10.6gr
Low: 1111
High:1154
Ave: 1127

10.9gr
Low: 1131
High:1165
Ave: 1151

11.2gr
Low: 1147
High:1202
Ave: 1179

11.5gr
Low: 1211
High:1232
Ave: 1225

Lots of flash but seems to be clean burning.

I had my best accuracy with 10.9grs.

Recoil got bad around 11.2grs.

Last edited by Medpilot 2; 08-12-2004 at 16:53..
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Old 09-05-2004, 16:55   #24
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Here's another good example of AA#2, using 180gr. bullets. (not 10mm, but close)
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Old 09-11-2004, 15:13   #25
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Finally got around to picking up another lb of #7.

G20 wih 5" KKM barrel
Winchester nickel cases
CCI standard primers
180 gr Win FMJ
COL @ 1.25"


(7 shot sample)
12.0 gr AA#7
Avg: 1288
Std Dev: 10
Hi: 1305
Lo: 1277


(7 shot sample)
12.3 gr AA#7
Avg: 1324
Std Dev: 11
Hi: 1334
Lo: 1308


(7 shot sample)
12.6 gr AA#7)
Avg: 1365
Std Dev: 16
Hi: 1395
Lo: 1346


I wasn't expecting results so high! For example, I was expecting around 1200 fps for the 12.0 gr sample. Well, after that I watched and examined each case after firing. No signs of flattened primers. I don't think I'll push these any higher.


G20 wih 5" KKM barrel
Winchester nickel cases
CCI standard primers
200 gr Hornady FMJ/FP
COL @ 1.25"

(7 shot sample)
11.6 gr AA #7
Avg: 1266
Std Dev: 6
Hi: 1278
Lo: 1258

This would be a BOSS hunting load! Again, I wasn't expecting such high numbers. Very tight group.


I loaded up some 40's also. Not to sound like a broken record, but I didn't expect the numbers that I recorded!
I had to scrub about half of my .40 loadings in 180 gr and 200 gr. In some instances, cases were quite bulged. Playing it on the safe side, I will disasseble the ones I wasn't too comfortable with firing.
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Old 09-13-2004, 13:25   #26
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Just received my first pound of AA#9 powder and will be working up loads in the G-20 using the 200gr. XTP bullet. Starting loads at 13 grains, then moving to 13.5, 14.0 and last group to be fired if pressure is still within limits will be 14.3 grains. Will post the data here as soon as I get these rounds through my chronograph. Looking to reach somewhere around 1225 fps. Also reference VV load data. Basically I'm trying to find a hunting load and I'll be comparing AA#9 to the VV 3N38 with all loads using 200 gr. XTP, starline brass and CCI350 primers.
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Old 09-13-2004, 15:28   #27
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I like Vit powders better than Accurate. N105 works very well for 10mm.
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Old 09-13-2004, 16:44   #28
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Medpilot,

I saw all your posts about N-105 and I was going to choose that powder; however, after further thought I think with the 200 grain bullets N-105 may use up all case capacity before proper velocities are reached.
I had great luck with N-110 in my .44 Mag reloads, so I love this brand of powder but I decided to go with 3N38 since it was slightly smaller than N-105, which should cause it to pack better and in theory since its slightly faster on the burn rate chart should take slightly less powder to get the job done. N-105 probably is the best VV powder for all bullet weights below 200 grains.
Last night I loaded the rounds with 3N38 and believe me with 9.5 through 10.8 there is absolutly no more room for anything any higher. Load density is right at 100% which is exactly what I like. I like to max out velocity within pressure limits and also have the load density right at 98-100%
What are your thoughts?

Last edited by G-20er; 09-13-2004 at 16:49..
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Old 09-13-2004, 21:11   #29
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One thing I've noticed about the tubular shape of Vihta Vuori powders is that you can compress it a little more than other powders like flattened ball powders. But for a 200 grainer max load, like you, I'd go the next step down to 3N38.
Looks like you are on the right track.

If you get a chance, compare the pressure signs for an equivalent load using Accurate Arms and see if you notice any difference between the two powders. I noticed that A.A. will show pressure signs before Vit powders on a comparative level.
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Old 09-19-2004, 17:08   #30
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Ok here is the new data using AA#9 with 200 grain XTP Bullets.

G-20 with stock length barrel.
Starline Brass
CCI 350 primers
OAL of 1.260




13 grains:
GROUP #2
1) 1110.0 -10.4
2) 1106.0 -14.4
3) 1126.0 5.6
4) 1101.0 -19.4
5) 1122.0 1.6
6) 1111.0 -9.4
7) 1147.0 26.6
8) 1136.0 15.6
9) 1117.0 -3.4
10) 1128.0 7.6
High: 1147.0
Low: 1101.0
E.S.: 46.0
Ave.: 1120.4
S.D.: 14.2
95%: 12.0



13.5 grains
GROUP #3
1) 1143.0 -18.4
2) 1151.0 -10.4
3) 1173.0 11.6
4) 1160.0 -1.4
5) 1170.0 8.6
6) 1159.0 -2.4
7) 1162.0 0.6
8) 1157.0 -4.4
9) 1178.0 16.6
10) 1162.0 0.6
High: 1178.0
Low: 1143.0
E.S.: 35.0
Ave.: 1161.4
S.D.: 10.2
95%: 8.0



14 grains:
GROUP #4
1) 1206.0 -3.8
2) 1230.0 20.2
3) 1216.0 6.2
4) 1222.0 12.2
5) 1206.0 -3.8
6) 1204.0 -5.8
7) 1199.0 -10.8
8) 1221.0 11.2
9) 1204.0 -5.8
10) 1191.0 -18.8
High: 1230.0
Low: 1191.0
E.S.: 39.0
Ave.: 1209.8
S.D.: 11.8
95%: 10.0




14.3 grains:
GROUP #5
1) 1246.0 12.2
2) 1248.0 14.2
3) 1254.0 20.2
4) 1219.0 -14.8
5) 1233.0 -0.8
6) 1225.0 -8.8
7) 1223.0 -10.8
8) 1244.0 10.2
9) 1223.0 -10.8
10) 1224.0 -9.8
High: 1254.0
Low: 1219.0
E.S.: 35.0
Ave.: 1233.8
S.D.: 12.8
95%: 10.0

Maximum safe load with stock barrel at 65 F OAT was:

13 grains which only produced 1120 fps. 13.5 gave me 50% of brass with light smileys. 14.0 gave me all light smileys on brass with black streaks comming from primer seam. 14.3 all brass had heavy smileys that you can catch your nail on and one brass that was split through the wall lengthwise with case, talking about being lucky. WOW!



Maximum safe load with KKM barrel at 65 F OAT was:

14.3 grains which produced 1233 fps. In high temperatures I would recommend 14 grains as max charge. 14 grains will also be my personal maximum with KKM barrel. That puts the 200 grain XTP at 1209 fps.

I am learning that with the KKM aftermarket barrel with powders in this burn range, you can load 10% more powder which gives you approximately 110 fps with same pressure signs as compared to the Glock stock barrel.

AA#9 showed equal pressure signs at 20 fps sooner as compared to VV 3N38.

Last edited by G-20er; 09-19-2004 at 17:25..
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Old 09-19-2004, 18:31   #31
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Very thorough post.

How compressed was the 14.3gr load?
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Old 09-19-2004, 18:45   #32
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Medpilot,

Funny you should ask...it was tight man. The 14.3 is completely maxed out without too much compression. I say this because the OAL with the charge of 14.3 was actually 1.263 the bullet actually sprung back .003 of a inch. The load of 14 grains would be the best load for all conditions in the KKM barrel with the 200gr. XTP.

What a great weekend at the range. I learned so much and finally found a keeper which as you know was the VV 3N38. It gave me way better SD, higher velocity at lower pressure levels as compared to AA#9.

Can't wait to get my Nickle Brass, should be here on Monday.

How is your load testing doing? Are we done yet?

I think we have tested the best powders for the 10mm that are available over the counter. I'm ready to load several hundred rounds with the VV 3N38.

Last edited by G-20er; 09-19-2004 at 19:11..
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Old 09-19-2004, 20:51   #33
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There were a few weeks where I went non-stop (a few hundred rounds a week). I'm sorta taking a little break right now.

I'm glad you did the comparisons between the factory and KKM barrels. I don't have the kahunas to shoot nuclear loads from a factory barrel. Just more proof for the folks who say aftermarket barrels are a waste of money.

I don't think this whole testing thing ever gets done. Seems like there is an endless variance of loads you can work up.

Last edited by Medpilot 2; 09-19-2004 at 20:59..
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Old 12-29-2005, 11:54   #34
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Just a slight variation of what G-20er posted.

Stock G20 AA#9, 200gr XTP, 57F, 4200ft, 1.26" OAL, .421" crimp, R-P nickle once fired, WLP;

13.2grs, avg 1139fps, hi 1147fps, lo 1129fps, ES 18fps; no pressure signs.

Adios,
Bob
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Old 01-02-2006, 16:49   #35
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Berry's plated 200gr.

Tested Berry's plated 200 gr. hollowpoint with new Winchester brass, CCI 350 Mag. primer and 13.0 grs. AA#9

OAL: 1.266 (seating depth affected by powder compression at 13.0 grs. Bullet rebounds from compression about 3 thousandths, to 1.266

Tested in two different stock std. barrel length G-20's

No smiles on fired brass and good function.

Both guns shot this combination very well (average 2" groups at 25 yds both guns.

good 100 % density load.

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Old 01-29-2006, 01:59   #36
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Once the chrono comes back from factory repairs and the G20 gets some new innards including a 6" KKM, then I'll do a side-by-side with Blue Dot and AA #9 with 165gr Golden Sabers.

Adios,
Bob
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Old 02-19-2006, 21:04   #37
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Has anyone tried AA # 9 with a 180 gr Hornady XTP? The Hornady manual lists 14.9 as max for 1250 fps, but this comes out to be 18% compressed on Quickload and they actual recommend a max charge of around 12.1 gr. So I just loaded up 50 of them in Double Tap once fired brass with CCI 350 primers and a 180 gr XTP over 12.1 gr of AA No 9. Will try them as soon as I get my KKM.

Wanted to know if the Hornady max load is going to be too compressed and if, in your experience, it is a safe load to aspire to? Has anyone chronoed AA # 9 with the 180 gr XTPs and if so, what velocities were achievable? I ain't looking for McNett level but was sort of hoping for something between 1200 to 1250 fps from a standard length barrel.
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Old 02-19-2006, 22:13   #38
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AA#9 and 190 Tournament Master

AA#9 & Sierra 190 tournament master

Short test:

Sierra 190 Tournament master
New Winchester brass
CCI 350 primer
13.7 AA#9
seating 1.255

Glock model 20
In 6" Storm Lake barrel: ave vel. 1265 fps
In factory barrel: ave vel. 1200 fps

Very good accuracy both barrels, better in the Storm Lake (as usual)

Stopped load development at the 13.7 as velocity and accuracy were good, and Glock smiles will appear in the factory barrel with much more powder added. Plus, though ammo kept warm, weather was cool and I will verify pressure when the weather warms up some...i.e. no glock smiles in the factory barrel. The Storm Lake barrel could take some more powder, but I am satisfied for now.

Will use this combination for my field load. I checked with
Sierra, and the 190 Tournament Master has a fairly heavy (thick) jacket and fairly soft lead core. From the 10mm, about all I expect is some riveting from like a medium game shoulder shot...mainly due to the design of the bullet.

Nice Load...

Paul
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Old 02-25-2006, 01:52   #39
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I worked up some 180gr Golden Sabers with AA #9; G-20, KKM 6", Win virgin brass, Federal 150 Match primer, 1.252-1.254", 7 shot strings, 4200', 57F, 12% humidity.

Starting at 14.3grs, ES of 79fps too much;

14.5grs - 1336fps, 713fpe, ES 14, SD 04;

14.8grs - 1371fps, 751fps, ES 23, SD 08.

I've found Golden Sabers to be a little slower than Gold Dots, but they have been very accurate in all my sidearms.

Adios,
Bob
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Old 02-25-2006, 19:20   #40
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Accurate arms data

Glolt20-91

Youv'e got those Golden Sabers screaming right along !

How did you get the bullet to stay put at those charge levels.

With the Sierra 190, at 14.4 grs and AA#9 it starts pushing the bullet back out. I am seating in one step and taper crimping in another, but at the 14.4, I get 2 to 3 thousands bullet spring back with the 190. The Golden Saber must be enough shorter to allow the charge.

Something interesting.....

I tested a G 20 Storm Lake 5" barrel with 13.7 and 14.2 of AA#9, Winchester brass CCI 350 primer, seating depth 1.260 for Sierra 190 and there was only 13fps average velocity difference between the two charges. Must be one of those early compression things where as compression starts, velocity flatlines (so to speak)till the charges are heavy enough. I retested it a couple times just to make sure and it stayed the same. The lower 13.7 charge was much better standard deviation than the 14.2 so I guess I will stay at the 13.7 since another 1/2 grain netted almost nothing.....the 13.7 charge & 5" Storm Lake barrel gives 1248 fps average velocity with the Sierra 190.

I will give the 180 Golden Sabers a try...I like them better than the Gold Dots anyway.....

regards

Paul
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