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Old 12-28-2003, 17:04   #26
SKYWLKR
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Where is some reloading data for .45 super?
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Old 12-28-2003, 17:11   #27
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http://www.realguns.com/loads/45Super.htm
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Old 01-05-2004, 16:18   #28
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I talked to Corbon a while back

Quote:
Originally posted by turbonatr

Cor-Bon claims 950fps from a 5" barrel. I don't have my chrono data in front of me, but IIRC, I got around 900fps from 230gr. +P Cor-Bon. 200gr. +P JHPs run about 990-1000fps from my G30.
I was inquiring as to how much velocity reduction I could expect with the G30's 3.78" barrel versus the 5" test. They estimated 50-100 fps which seems in line with your experience. They also answered that their expectation for consistant JHP expansion was 900 fps minimum. I chose to go with the 185 gr. at 1150 - about 50 fps for my cary ammo.

Thanks for all the info. You have done a good service. Don't spend all that pay in one place
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Old 02-04-2004, 20:26   #29
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All I will ever own is a G36. When I take it on hikes, 45 super makes sense.

What do you think would be the right spring weight for a G36? And would a 36 be within reason as far as recoil control goes?

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Old 02-05-2004, 17:24   #30
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IMHO, there isn't an ideal spring weight for the G36 to shoot 45 Super. I don't think there is enough slide mass to tame the increased slide velocity.

Personally, I would install a 21lb. spring in your G36 and go for the 45 Super Tactical. According to Ace Custom Guns, this load is 100% safe in guns that are OK with shooting +P loads. The Tactical will give you an edge over any +P loads but won't batter your G36 like 45 Super will.
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Old 02-20-2004, 14:33   #31
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Check this out:

http://www.acecustom45.com

Although some loadings of 45 Super can be shot in 21# & 22# sprung guns, check out ALL the:

45 Super Gunsmith Fit Conversion Kits, at Ace Custom.

Note which guns are recommended for better supported aftermarket barrels, what spring weights and buffers are recommended, as well as how 45 Tactical & 45 Super are recommended by barrel length.

Glockfaq recommends a minimum of 24# recoil spring in Glock pistols:
(Note the pictures comparing the heavier slide dimensions of the 10mm vs. 45ACP slides!)

http://www.glockfaq.com

http://www.starlinebrass.com

Grip alteration: http://glocktalk.com/forums/showthre...2#post13213462

Training and targets: www.glockfaq.com www.sportshooter.com www.mytargets.com www.tackdriver.com Be sure to explore the links too!

Last edited by bdc; 06-20-2009 at 12:04..
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Old 02-20-2004, 16:52   #32
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...and keep in mind Aces' in the business to make money.
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Old 02-21-2004, 11:16   #33
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Better Glock solution

I agree with Turbo that Ace is building guns for $. I would not buy one of their kits, because I think you can build something better for less money.

None-the-less, their experience at building guns for 45 Super is unsurpassed. I would study the pages offered very seriously.

The problem with G-30 & G21 slides for 45 super is that they are too light weight. You would do better to start with the much heavier G29 and G20 slides (10mm).

Buy a G21 or G30 45 ACP barrel from KKM, Bar-Sto, or Jarvis in any length you desire. Have a G-29/G20 slide breach face opened up to fit the barrel. Add the improved spring assemblies as Turbo or Ace suggests. Change or alter the 10mm extractor for 45 dimensions.

If you are not capable of performing the needed alterations yourself, find a full service gunsmith or machine shop that will do the metal work needed before you start this project.

Note: 10mm magazines will feed 45ACP even without changing the follower or feed lips. You can find a slide assembly, or just alter a complete G29 or G20.

Last edited by bdc; 05-17-2009 at 19:47..
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Old 03-01-2004, 16:13   #34
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1911 considerations

http://www.realguns.com/archives/021.htm covers the mathematics. Background for this article is http://www.realguns.com/archives/020.htm

Wolff springs: www.gunsprings.com

The double stacked magazine Kimber, Para-Ordinance and Springfield models have some appeal if the parts can be found to handle the 45 Super. I find the common 1911 grip a bit slim for such recoil as is delivered with high power factor cartridges as 10mm or 45 Super.

www.kimberamerica.com

www.paraord.com

www.springfieldarmory.com

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Old 03-01-2004, 16:22   #35
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HK USP45 considerations

The USP 45 has an interesting recoil system containing both a stout buffer spring and a 14 lb recoil spring.

I have read that HK has tested and approved 45 Super for the USP 45 with the recommendation that the recoil spring be changed each 500 rounds.

I think this unlikely, 14 lb spring is too light. Even though the buffer spring design allows for a broader power range of ammo to function reliably, 45 Super is too large a leap for the factory recoil system.

Fortunately www.gunsprings.com has a 20 lb recoil spring available, which should do nicely in conjunction with the standard buffer spring.

Also I note that the HKP7 recoil springs at Wolff are made up to 25 lb., they appear to be the same diameter as the USP 45 recoil spring. Perhaps this is a better option.

www.hecklerkoch-usa.com

http://www.streetpro.com/usp/images/usp_dtal.jpg

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Old 03-01-2004, 16:48   #36
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Turbo.......I find your posts about the .45 super interesting. Have you ever heard about the super being used in a Ruger P series pistol?? I'm guessing the gun should be strong enough.

BTW....Where in NEPA do you live?? I'm originally from the Scranton area.
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Old 03-01-2004, 23:17   #37
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.45 SUPER®
LOAD DATA

Bullet Powder Starting Starting Maximum Maximum Muz
Charge Velocity Charge Velocity Energy

Sierra 165 gr. JHP Power-Pistol - - 12.0 grs. 1,380 fps 698

Nosler 185 gr. N-350 9.2 grs. 1,112 fps 11.2 grs. 1,275 fps 668

Power-Pistol 9.5 grs. 1,105 fps 11.3 grs. 1,307 fps 702

HS-7 13.0 grs. 1,148 fps 14.7 grs. 1,304 fps 702

AA-7 14.0 grs. 1,199 fps 16.0 grs. 1,306 fps 702

Hornady 200 gr. XTP N-350 8.8 grs. 1,048 fps 10.2 grs. 1,179 fps 618

Power-Pistol 8.5 grs. 1,037 fps 10.3 grs. 1,196 fps

HS-7 12.0 grs. 1,073 fps 13.7 grs. 1,226 fps 668

AA-7 13.0 grs. 1,093 fps 14.6 grs. 1,214 fps

Hornady 230 gr. XTP N-350 7.8 grs. 963 fps 8.9 grs. 1,040 fps 553

Power-Pistol 8.0 grs. 933 fps 9.4 grs. 1,104 fps

HS-7 10.5 grs. 924 fps 12.3 grs. 1,110 fps 630

AA-7 11.0 grs. 942 fps 13.5 grs. 1,108 fps

The above loading data is only for handguns converted to .45 Super and only for use with Triton or Starline .45 Super cases. All loads were assembled with a Federal 150 primer to an OAL of 2.220". The velocities are from a 5" barrel.

Standard .45 Auto dies are utilized in loading the .45 Super. Various
brands of primers have been used in developing the .45 Super. The Federal
150 offers the best overall performance. The use of a magnum primer is not
necessary nor recommended. A heavy taper crimp is recommended when loading
the .45 Super.

WARNING: The .45 Super cartridge generates higher pressure levels than
conventional .45 Auto or .45 Auto +P ammunition. The .45 Super cartridge
case is constructed to withstand higher levels of pressure than
conventional .45 Auto brass. Under no circumstances should .45 Super
ammunition be used in a firearm not chambered or converted to .45 Super.

The use of .45 Super ammunition in anything other than an authorized .45
Super firearm or conversion will cause excessive wear and possible damage to the firearm and injury to the user. DO NOT attempt to use the above data in standard or +P .45 ACP cases.
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Old 03-04-2004, 08:27   #38
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Warning: Bullet selections are specific, and loads are not valid with substitutions of different bullets of the same weight. Variations in bullet length will alter net case capacity, pressure and velocity. Primer selection is specific and primer types are not interchangeable. These are maximum loads in my firearms and may easily be excessive in others. All loads should be reduced by 10%, and developed following safe handloading practices as represented in established reloading manuals produced by component manufacturers. Presentation of these loads does not constitute a solicitation for their use, nor a recommendation.


Cartridge: 45 Super (Not for use in .45 ACP handguns)
Firearm: Kimber Gold Match Max COL: 1.275"
Barrel: 5" Reloading Dies: RCBS
Max case length: .898" Group distance: 3 shots / 50'
Note: For use in guns converted specifically for .45 Super use and only with .45 Super brass.

Bullet Type Bullet
Weight Bullet
Diameter C.O.L. Net Water
Capacity Powder
Type Charge Primer
Type Muzzle
Velocity Muzzle
Energy Group
Size
Speer Gold Dot 185 .451" 1.200" 15.8 Pwr Pistol 8.2 Fed 150 1059 460 0.8
Speer Gold Dot 185 .451" 1.200" 15.8 Pwr Pistol 8.6 Fed 150 1113 509 0.6
Speer Gold Dot 185 .451" 1.200" 15.8 Pwr Pistol 9.1 Fed 150 1162 554 1.0
Speer Gold Dot 185 .451" 1.200" 15.8 Pwr Pistol 9.5 Fed 150 1237 628 0.4
Speer Gold Dot 185 .451" 1.200" 15.8 Pwr Pistol 10.0 Fed 150 1288 681 0.7
Speer Gold Dot 185 .451" 1.200" 15.8 Pwr Pistol 10.5 Fed 150 1331 727 0.4
Speer Gold Dot 185 .451" 1.200" 15.8 Pwr Pistol 11.3 Fed 150 1403 808 0.5
Remington Bulk 185 .451" 1.240" 17.2 Pwr Pistol 8.2 Fed 150 1043 446 0.7
Remington Bulk 185 .451" 1.240" 17.2 Pwr Pistol 8.6 Fed 150 1095 492 1.1
Remington Bulk 185 .451" 1.240" 17.2 Pwr Pistol 9.1 Fed 150 1189 580 0.5
Remington Bulk 185 .451" 1.240" 17.2 Pwr Pistol 9.5 Fed 150 1251 643 1.0
Remington Bulk 185 .451" 1.240" 17.2 Pwr Pistol 10.0 Fed 150 1282 675 0.9
Remington Bulk 185 .451" 1.240" 17.2 Pwr Pistol 10.5 Fed 150 1310 705 0.8
Remington Bulk 185 .451" 1.240" 17.2 Pwr Pistol 11.3 Fed 150 1387 790 0.6
Hornady HP-XTP 200 .451" 1.240" 16.6 Accurate 7 15.0 Fed 150 1260 705 1.4
Hornady HP-XTP 200 .451" 1.240" 16.6 HS7 14.2 Fed 150 1295 744 1.0
Hornady HP-XTP 200 .451" 1.240" 16.6 Alliant 2400 15.1 Fed 150 1160 553 1.3
Speer Gold Dot 230 .451 1.200" 12.0 Pwr Pistol 8.5 CCI 300 1070 585 1.0
Speer Gold Dot 230 .451 1.200" 12.0 Unique 6.8 CCI 300 1025 537 1.7
Speer Gold Dot 230 .451 1.230" 13.3 RS Enforcer 13.5 CCI 300 1005 516 1.2
Speer JHP 260 .451 1.260 13.2 Pwr Pistol 8.3 CCI 300 1000 577 2.0
Speer JHP 260 .451 1.260 13.2 Blue Dot 10.2 CCI 300 950 521 1.6
Speer JHP 260 .451 1.260 13.2 RS Enforcer 13.2 CCI 300 970 543 1.1
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Old 03-07-2004, 21:45   #39
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Components were Starline 45 Super cases, CCI 300 primers, Win 230 gr. FMJ bullets, loaded to an OAL of 1.260"

Ther results are as follows for AA#7 and Blue Dot powder, and all velocities are 5 shot averages:

V16/AA#7 FPS EAA/AA#7 FPS
10.9 906 11.0 920
11.2 920 11.2 923
11.5 928 11.4 946
11.8 973 11.6 946
12.1 948 11.8 974
12.4 981 12.0 983
12.7 1006 12.2 1000
13.0 1033 12.4 1006
13.3 1052 12.6 1029
13.6 1086

V16/B.D. FPS EAA/B.D. FPS
9.7 783 10.0 870
10.0 813 10.2 868
10.3 882 10.4 918
10.6 888 10.6 896
10.9 965 10.8 926
11.2 1038 11.0 971
11.5 1022 11.2 1003
11.8 1059 11.4 987
12.1 1067 11.6 1017
12.4 1105 11.8 1040
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Old 03-07-2004, 22:24   #40
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45 SUPER®
LOAD DATA

Bullet Powder Starting Starting Maximum Maximum Muz
Charge Velocity Charge Velocity Energy

Sierra 165 gr. JHP Power-Pistol - - 12.0 grs. 1,380 fps 698

Nosler 185 gr. N-350 9.2 grs. 1,112 fps 11.2 grs. 1,275 fps 668

Power-Pistol 9.5 grs. 1,105 fps 11.3 grs. 1,307 fps 702

HS-7 13.0 grs. 1,148 fps 14.7 grs. 1,304 fps 702

AA-7 14.0 grs. 1,199 fps 16.0 grs. 1,306 fps 702

Hornady 200 gr. XTP N-350 8.8 grs. 1,048 fps 10.2 grs. 1,179 fps 618

Power-Pistol 8.5 grs. 1,037 fps 10.3 grs. 1,196 fps

HS-7 12.0 grs. 1,073 fps 13.7 grs. 1,226 fps 668

AA-7 13.0 grs. 1,093 fps 14.6 grs. 1,214 fps

Hornady 230 gr. XTP N-350 7.8 grs. 963 fps 8.9 grs. 1,040 fps 553

Power-Pistol 8.0 grs. 933 fps 9.4 grs. 1,104 fps

HS-7 10.5 grs. 924 fps 12.3 grs. 1,110 fps 630

AA-7 11.0 grs. 942 fps 13.5 grs. 1,108 fps

The above loading data is only for handguns converted to .45 Super and only
for use with Triton or Starline .45 Super cases. All loads were assembled
with a Federal 150 primer to an OAL of 2.220". The velocities are from a 5"
barrel.

Standard .45 Auto dies are utilized in loading the .45 Super. Various
brands of primers have been used in developing the .45 Super. The Federal
150 offers the best overall performance. The use of a magnum primer is not
necessary nor recommended. A heavy taper crimp is recommended when loading
the .45 Super.

WARNING: The .45 Super cartridge generates higher pressure levels than
conventional .45 Auto or .45 Auto +P ammunition. The .45 Super cartridge
case is constructed to withstand higher levels of pressure than
conventional .45 Auto brass. Under no circumstances should .45 Super
ammunition be used in a firearm not chambered or converted to .45 Super.
The use of .45 Super ammunition in anything other than an authorized .45
Super firearm or conversion will cause excessive wear and possible damage
to the firearm and injury to the user. DO NOT attempt to use the above data
in standard or +P .45 ACP cases.
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Old 04-03-2004, 15:25   #41
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I bought some of the Texas Ammo Co. 45 Super a while back. I was shooting it in my Springfield long slide. I hadn't even thought about it in my recently purchased G30. Maybe I'll give it a whirl. I love the Super cartridge and have been saving my brass for reloading.
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Old 04-13-2004, 11:36   #42
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Sierra Bullet Tec Rep

I have always found the Sierra Bullet Tec Line an excellent source of good reloading information.

I gave them a call this morning, hoping to find some more 45 Super data.

Their answer and forcefull delivery took me by surprize: "We don't have, will never have or give out data for 45 Super."

I am sure that this is a liability issue, probably been burned before. Considering that both the gun and the cartridge are constructions, and the cartridge dimensions will fit into improper guns.

I would like to find loads for some of the faster powders for short barreled guns. Don't need the maximum power that the slower powders can deliver.
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Old 04-13-2004, 16:02   #43
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The rights to "45 Super" belong to Ace's Custom Guns. Nobody else can legally have anything to do with it unless approved by Ace's Custom Guns.
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Old 04-16-2004, 14:12   #44
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Brass strength and load data

Thegman is still innovating! Fernando Coelho (Triton) weighs in! More Load data and investigation:

http://www.1911forum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=78625

Last edited by bdc; 05-21-2004 at 14:05..
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Old 04-17-2004, 13:56   #45
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According to that, +P brass is stronger than .45 Super brass. Has anyone else confirmed that? I was going to order up some Super brass, but I have a few hundred Remington nickel +P cases handy. If +P is capable of handling Super pressures, than whay does SAAMI rate it at only 23,000PSI?
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Old 04-18-2004, 12:37   #46
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Brass strength.

Thegman is way ahead of the rest of us on this matter. One of his major points is variation, both among different manufacturers and between different lots from the same manufacturer.

Thegman has good things to say about all the Remington 45 brass. A couple test rounds building up from a lower level will answer your questions about your brass on hand.

Only the brass headstamped 45 Super carries the manufacturers assurance.

Thegman's efforts also indicate something else: If you use Ken Waters method for determining maximum loads you are comparing apples-to-oranges, unless you understand each componant of your factory standard load and are building a load very similar to the factory load.

http://urugami.homelinux.net/shooter...1/5987.cfm.htm

Note that the 6" barrel V16 has only 3.64" from breachface to the first port.

Last edited by bdc; 04-27-2004 at 11:20..
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Old 04-27-2004, 11:30   #47
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Barrel length considerations

SAAMI standard barrel for 45ACP is 5". Only Thegman is using a barrel that long.

Converting to 45 Super means putting more powder in the case: Indicates a longer barrel is needed.

45 Super performs more efficiently with slower powders: Indicates a longer barrel is needed.

One fellow is using a 3" barrel loaded with enough slow powder for a 460 Rowland. He is not getting 460 Rowland performance, he is getting 460 Rowland bang, flash and perceived recoil.

Most people want to convert G30, G36, G21C, G21 length barrel guns for 45 Super. I concure in fact.

Thegman has pushed his 5" barrel as far as it will go with slow powders and light bullets. He correctly is persueing very heavy bullets to increase the barrel time and more completely burn the slow powders.

Slow powders in short barrels are the reasons these short barreled guns can be fired with inadequate spring and slide weights - energy is not transferred to the bullet efficiently - momentum is not being generated - the energy is being dissipated as muzzel blast.

Faster burning powders with lighter bullets in short barrels are likely to push the bullet as well without the excess muzzel blast. I don't see evidence anywhere that loads like this are being developed. Too much of the load development seems to be to put on a show at the range.

Last edited by bdc; 05-17-2009 at 19:52..
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Old 06-11-2004, 19:49   #48
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With my 10mm Glock 20 and a 5.5 inch Federal Arms barrel I get 1490fps with a 165 grain Gold Dot. This is 800fpe. Still, .45 makes a bigger hole. .45 Super is a great thing.
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Old 06-11-2004, 21:16   #49
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rsilvers,

A buddy of mine has been loading 185gr. slugs to 1500fps from a G21 for years. Yes, 45 Super is a great thing!
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Old 06-11-2004, 21:32   #50
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rsilvers,

A buddy of mine has been loading 185gr. slugs to 1500fps from a G21 for years. Yes, 45 Super is a great thing!
This is not possible unless you go to 35000 to 40000psi. is that prudent? I guess it is ok.
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