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Old 04-03-2004, 16:25   #41
Redondo
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I bought some of the Texas Ammo Co. 45 Super a while back. I was shooting it in my Springfield long slide. I hadn't even thought about it in my recently purchased G30. Maybe I'll give it a whirl. I love the Super cartridge and have been saving my brass for reloading.
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Old 04-13-2004, 11:36   #42
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Sierra Bullet Tec Rep

I have always found the Sierra Bullet Tec Line an excellent source of good reloading information.

I gave them a call this morning, hoping to find some more 45 Super data.

Their answer and forcefull delivery took me by surprize: "We don't have, will never have or give out data for 45 Super."

I am sure that this is a liability issue, probably been burned before. Considering that both the gun and the cartridge are constructions, and the cartridge dimensions will fit into improper guns.

I would like to find loads for some of the faster powders for short barreled guns. Don't need the maximum power that the slower powders can deliver.
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Old 04-13-2004, 16:02   #43
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The rights to "45 Super" belong to Ace's Custom Guns. Nobody else can legally have anything to do with it unless approved by Ace's Custom Guns.
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Old 04-16-2004, 14:12   #44
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Brass strength and load data

Thegman is still innovating! Fernando Coelho (Triton) weighs in! More Load data and investigation:

http://www.1911forum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=78625

Last edited by bdc; 05-21-2004 at 14:05..
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Old 04-17-2004, 13:56   #45
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According to that, +P brass is stronger than .45 Super brass. Has anyone else confirmed that? I was going to order up some Super brass, but I have a few hundred Remington nickel +P cases handy. If +P is capable of handling Super pressures, than whay does SAAMI rate it at only 23,000PSI?
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Old 04-18-2004, 12:37   #46
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Brass strength.

Thegman is way ahead of the rest of us on this matter. One of his major points is variation, both among different manufacturers and between different lots from the same manufacturer.

Thegman has good things to say about all the Remington 45 brass. A couple test rounds building up from a lower level will answer your questions about your brass on hand.

Only the brass headstamped 45 Super carries the manufacturers assurance.

Thegman's efforts also indicate something else: If you use Ken Waters method for determining maximum loads you are comparing apples-to-oranges, unless you understand each componant of your factory standard load and are building a load very similar to the factory load.

http://urugami.homelinux.net/shooter...1/5987.cfm.htm

Note that the 6" barrel V16 has only 3.64" from breachface to the first port.

Last edited by bdc; 04-27-2004 at 11:20..
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Old 04-27-2004, 11:30   #47
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Barrel length considerations

SAAMI standard barrel for 45ACP is 5". Only Thegman is using a barrel that long.

Converting to 45 Super means putting more powder in the case: Indicates a longer barrel is needed.

45 Super performs more efficiently with slower powders: Indicates a longer barrel is needed.

One fellow is using a 3" barrel loaded with enough slow powder for a 460 Rowland. He is not getting 460 Rowland performance, he is getting 460 Rowland bang, flash and perceived recoil.

Most people want to convert G30, G36, G21C, G21 length barrel guns for 45 Super. I concure in fact.

Thegman has pushed his 5" barrel as far as it will go with slow powders and light bullets. He correctly is persueing very heavy bullets to increase the barrel time and more completely burn the slow powders.

Slow powders in short barrels are the reasons these short barreled guns can be fired with inadequate spring and slide weights - energy is not transferred to the bullet efficiently - momentum is not being generated - the energy is being dissipated as muzzel blast.

Faster burning powders with lighter bullets in short barrels are likely to push the bullet as well without the excess muzzel blast. I don't see evidence anywhere that loads like this are being developed. Too much of the load development seems to be to put on a show at the range.

Last edited by bdc; 05-17-2009 at 19:52..
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Old 06-11-2004, 19:49   #48
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With my 10mm Glock 20 and a 5.5 inch Federal Arms barrel I get 1490fps with a 165 grain Gold Dot. This is 800fpe. Still, .45 makes a bigger hole. .45 Super is a great thing.
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Old 06-11-2004, 21:16   #49
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rsilvers,

A buddy of mine has been loading 185gr. slugs to 1500fps from a G21 for years. Yes, 45 Super is a great thing!
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Old 06-11-2004, 21:32   #50
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rsilvers,

A buddy of mine has been loading 185gr. slugs to 1500fps from a G21 for years. Yes, 45 Super is a great thing!
This is not possible unless you go to 35000 to 40000psi. is that prudent? I guess it is ok.
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Old 06-11-2004, 21:51   #51
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It's not only possible, but been done many thousands of times over. There is some load data just below with 185s at 1400+fps. My friend is a very experienced handloader (been handloading longer than I have been alive). He knows what he is doing.
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Old 06-11-2004, 21:56   #52
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Didn't say it was not possible. I said it was not possible below 35,000psi and that this is apparently ok in spite of it being over the .45 Super pressure limit.
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Old 06-11-2004, 22:00   #53
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There is no max pressure limit set as a standard for the 45 Super so it's impossible to be "over the .45 Super pressure limit". Only a known factory loaded pressure exists. That being the case, handloaders must proceed with caution. If no pressure signs exists, then all is well. 45 Super brass is amazingly strong.
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Old 06-11-2004, 22:10   #54
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Someone told me 28,000psi was the limit but perhaps they meant that is what ACE recommends as the limit. If so, I would still take what they say as the acting standard and then loading higher until there are signs of pressure would be no different than loading 9mm to reach Major, etc, even if it was over +P+ standards but yet showed no signs of pressure.

So what is safe and prudent for a Glock with a factory barrel with unsupported web?

At what point does it become unwise to push the limits with a stock Glock barrel (but 22lb spring)?
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Old 06-12-2004, 06:17   #55
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28,000 is what Ace's loads 45 Super at. Certainly not the cartridge's upper limit. Factory 45 Super is so watered down it's almost comical.

What is safe for a Glock is to be determined by the handloader. My friend has not yet reached that limit and his handloads are what the 45 Super should be, not what Aces' offers. The 45 Super offers FAR more performance than what it is currently loaded to by the factory.
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Old 06-12-2004, 06:46   #56
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28,000 is what Ace's loads 45 Super at. Certainly not the cartridge's upper limit. Factory 45 Super is so watered down it's almost comical.

What is safe for a Glock is to be determined by the handloader. My friend has not yet reached that limit and his handloads are what the 45 Super should be, not what Aces' offers. The 45 Super offers FAR more performance than what it is currently loaded to by the factory.
I suspect ACE is limited by the pistol slide battering (1911) not the brass or chamber. It is nice to know hot handloads can be created for hunting, and it would be nice if someone loaded .45 Super hotter than ACE so I could use it for self defense, but I decided I would not use handloads for self defense because, among other reasons, there is no reference for forensics to later determine shooting distance from powder debris.
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Old 06-12-2004, 07:06   #57
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Penetration with full-power 45 Super would be too severe for a self defense role; unless you like around 3 feet of penetration in gelatin.;f Recoil is also another issue. Doubletaps with a 185gr. JHPs at 1500fps is near impossible.
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Old 06-12-2004, 08:19   #58
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Penetration with full-power 45 Super would be too severe for a self defense role; unless you like around 3 feet of penetration in gelatin.;f Recoil is also another issue. Doubletaps with a 185gr. JHPs at 1500fps is near impossible.
I am sure there is some bullet weight which would do 13-16 inches of gelatin at high speed. I am not sure if it would be a 165 or 185 or 200 or 230. Hollowpoints often penetrate less as they go faster.
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Old 06-12-2004, 09:32   #59
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Thats not always true. 180gr. Gold Dots loaded to .40S&W velocities go about 13". DoubleTap's 10mm Gold DOts exceed 18.5" at 1300fps. Bullet construction is a big factor here.
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Old 06-12-2004, 10:02   #60
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But DoubleTap's 165 does around 14 inches. So there is a weight which works for higher speed.
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