[fredr1980]

Had a chance to test out some loads after finally finishing fitting the 6" barrel and long slide on my 1911. Tested out 90gr 115gr XTP's and I was actually pretty impressed with it very accurate and flat shooter. Once I got the adjustable sight sighted in I was shooting at a 10" gong at 40yrds and hitting it consistently. Forgot the bring a battery for my new chrono so wasn't able to get any velocities but I'll do that next weekend when I go out again . Did strings of 5 on both loads going up in 0.2gr increments. Started the 90gr XTP's at 10.4gr and went all the way up to 12.2gr, no bulged cases with slightly flattened primers on the 12.2gr load, probably stick with the last load once I get velocities on them. Recoil felt about the same amount of recoil on my 6" long slide 9x25 compared to my 5" 45ACP, might have to do with the longe rslide being a bit heavier plus I was running a 22LBS recoil spring on the 9x25 versus the standard 18lbs on the 45. Did the same 5 shot strings with the 115gr XTP's andstarted at 10.2gr and went all the way to 11.0gr. Probably stick to10.6 to 10.8gr once I get velocities as the 11.0gr loads had VERY flattened primers. Recoil on the 115gr XTP's at 10.6gr and up wer enoticeably more than the 230gr 45acp I was also shooting. I also ran the same 22lbs recoil spring on the 115gr but might experiment with the 20lbs & 24lbs springs I also have later.

Fred R.

[_The_Shadow]

Sounds like you're getting things dialed in, I wish you had your CHRONY running.
I'm taking that this was LongShot powder for your loads.

[fredr1980]

Originally Posted by _The_Shadow

Sounds like you're getting things dialed in, I wish you had your CHRONY running.
I'm taking that this was LongShot powder for your loads.

Yeah, was running longshot with CCI 350 magnum primers.

Fred R.

[fredr1980]

Update. Here are the numbers I got after loading up some 90gr XTP and 115gr XTP's.

6" Barrel 1911
90grain XTP
CCI 350 Primer
12.0 Grains Longshot
2059 FPS 10-Shot Average
37.25 ES
17.06 SD
847 Ft Lbs. Based on Average

No pressure signs on the brass, happy with this load so that's what I'm going to stick with for the 90gr XTP's.

6" Barrel 1911
115grain XTP
CCI 350 Primer
10.8 Grains Longshot
1764 FPS 10-Shot Average
25.83 ES
12.47 SD
794 Ft. Lbs. Based on Average

No pressure signs on this brass also but really was wanting to push the 115XTP's to over 1800 FPS. Probably load up some at 11.0gr and 11.2 gr and see where that takes me.

Ordered some 124gr XTP's and will work up a load based on some of the findings in this thread. Looking to get the 124's up to 1725-1750 FPS...

Fred R.

[_The_Shadow]

Man I need to get a longer barrel for this cartridge...
I have one being made for my S&W, but someday I'll get a Glock 20 4th gen and some barrels.

[warhoggie]

I've been gone for awhile and finally had some time to check this thread out again. Wow sure are alot more load data.

Thank you all for sharing! This is good stuff.

[8voice8]

Cross posting this from my Calguns postings, thought I would share here as well.

Loaded 124G JHP with 12G Blue Dot.

It was very aggressive, flung the brass, large flash, loud as hell and not all that accurate.

Primers were starting to flatten, I wish I had taken some 10mm with me so I could compare the two primers after shooting. Here is the worst one out of the bunch next to a piece of virgin brass and a new primer.

Primers





Data

[_The_Shadow]

Are those precision delta bullets plated?
BTW that primer is perfect nat flatten at all...

[whenmonkeysfly]

8voice8,

I agree with The Shadow, that primer looks good. Appreciate the data. A 124 grain 9mm bullet going 1500fps is moving on. The weather is starting to get tolerable here in Florida so I may have to start doing some more shooting/reloading. (I've got my 9x25 Dillon tool head ready for the press.)

[8voice8]

Originally Posted by _The_Shadow

Are those precision delta bullets plated?
BTW that primer is perfect nat flatten at all...

No they are a Jacketed Hollow Point,



and they sell samples packs of 100 for 18 bucks shipped so you can mix and match before buying their 2000 minimum order.

Thanks for the primer comment, to be honest I usually did not work up loads for velocity only accuracy befor this round so I was never looking at primers before. So to me it looked a little flat. You learn something new every day though.

Originally Posted by whenmonkeysfly

8voice8,

I agree with The Shadow, that primer looks good. Appreciate the data. A 124 grain 9mm bullet going 1500fps is moving on. The weather is starting to get tolerable here in Florida so I may have to start doing some more shooting/reloading. (I've got my 9x25 Dillon tool head ready for the press.)

Thanks for the thoughts, and no problem. I have some more loads to test so I will be throwing some more data up here in the near future.

[mrpipesmkr]

Hi all,
I have been lurking on this thread and others for awhile, mainly to get info and load data on the 9x25. I purchased a Lone Wolf 6" barrel for my G20 last spring and have been having a great time with it ever since. It really is a great cartridge.
Wanted to take the time to thank those who have taken there time to post their experience and load data, it has been a huge asset to me. So, Shadow, Meathead9, Whenmonkeysfly, and all others, Thanks!

Here are some of my observations on 9x25:
Headspace is critical on this round. Measure you fired brass to insure the shoulder dimensions of your reloads fit your chamber. Allow 1-2 thousanth's set back so you rounds will cycle properly. Too much headspace equals short case life!
For my barrel's chamber Doubletap's 9x25's shoulders are set back to far and must be fire-formed. I imagine Mike has to do this so his ammo fits all chambers regardless of who reamed them. It is great ammo though!
My Dillon dies have to be adjusted just right or they put too much flare on the case mouth which shortens case life, and the neck is sized very tight. I use the Dillon die to size and Lee .357Sig to expand the neck and seat the bullet. Lee .357Sig dies cannot be used to size because the shoulder angle is very different than the 9x25.
I have been concerened about using standard 9mm hollow points on this cartridge because I don't think they can hold up to the much higher velocities of the 9x25. What I have settled on as a hollow point bullet is the 125 grain Hornady HAP's. These conical bullets are .356 diameter but shoot well in my barrel. The advantage, to me, is that although they are hollow points they do not have the serations off the hollow point that the Hornady XTP's do. This costruction is similar to many rifle bullets (with lighter jackets) and should allow slower expansion for better penetration and less chance of the bullet "blowing up" even at 1700 FPS. I load these to the maximum length my magazines will allow and use a deburring tool to taper the outer case mouth to prevent the mouth from hanging up on the edge of the feed ramp, causing an FTF. I don't have access to a range where I can shoot ballistic gel or even water jugs so I have no way to test my theory. Has anyone else tried these?
I believe Longshot is the best powder for 9x25. Just seems to work well without pressure spikes. I loaded with CCI 350 primers from 10.0 grains of Longshot to 11.1 grains behind the 125 HAP's and just started to get primer flattening at 11.1. I have been using 10.6 grs. as a hot load with the 125 HAP's. Accurate load, as all my longshot loads tend to be.
I installed a 22 lb spring in my glock and it works fine even with 10mm. I also noticed that the heavier spring improved accuracy on both 10mm and 9x25's.

I'm curious to see what throat erosion will be like on the 9x25. Any comments on barrel life?
I have been considering a Mech Tech Carbine chambered for 9x25, anyone out there have one?

[_The_Shadow]

Do you have some CHRONO numbers for your work? If yes please post some so we can relate to your work...

[mrpipesmkr]

Originally Posted by _The_Shadow

Do you have some CHRONO numbers for your work? If yes please post some so we can relate to your work...

Sorry, no chrono numbers. Wish I had access to one. My post was mainly my way of letting you and others know that your postings are greatly appreciated.

[mrpipesmkr]

Originally Posted by _The_Shadow

Do you have some CHRONO numbers for your work? If yes please post some so we can relate to your work...

I am curious to know if you are anyone else has tried the Hornady HAP's 125 gr. Might be a great hollow point for 9x25.

Did you ever work up loads for 800x?

[veprx4]

G20, 4.6"LW bbl, Speer .355" 125gr TMJ, WIN primers, PP powder
Using barrel as headspace gauge...cases flush with barrel hood over the chamber. Best effort had 8 out of 10 rds fired. FTF rds looked like above pic. Light primer strike. I am experienced reloader. Never had this issue even with .357Sig. Have tried dialing the sizing die back and forth to set the shoulder for proper headspace. As far as I can tell the headspace seems correct, but I keep getting FTF w/above primer strikes. Dillon dies used throughout. Have used 90gr XTP projectiles and 9x25 DT and resized 10mm brass. OAL running 1.285" with the 125gr pills. Where am I going wrong?
TIA for any help you guys can provide.

[_The_Shadow]

veprx4, How dow the barrel fit in your slide? Does it move front to back any when in lockup condition? If it slides any while it is in lockup then the movement, that would change the strike at striker impact causing a soft hit.

With your magazine and chamber empty assemble the pistol while the open muzzle is pointing to the ceiling, place a pencil inside the barrel eraser down, against the breech, squeeze the trigger to release the striker, the pencil should jump up fairly high if the striker is hitting with force.

Be sure to check that the safety plunger is in the correct orientation in the slide as that could interfere with proper strike function. The plunger channel needs to be clean of lube and debris for proper function of the plunger & striker.

If all of that checks out, headspace is very critical to the proper alignment of the casing with respect to the breech face and under the extractor hook.

Case sizing needs to be less than 0.002" inside to flush for best fit. When testing in your barrel, be sure to push on the casehead, to seat it inside the chamber as far as it will go, while looking at the headspacing. Do this with an empty sized casing without a bullet to check things to eliminate the bullet or case neck as an issue.

COAL should be 1.250"-1.260" to have good neck tention on the bullets to help elimenate setback of bullets.

Good luck getting things sorted out!

mrpipesmkr, no I haven't had the chance to work with the 800X in the 9x25 yet, but I will visit that soon! Just a few things going on taking precedence...sorry!

[veprx4]

Originally Posted by _The_Shadow

veprx4, How dow the barrel fit in your slide? Does it move front to back any when in lockup condition? If it slides any while it is in lockup then the movement, that would change the strike at striker impact causing a soft hit.

With your magazine and chamber empty assemble the pistol while the open muzzle is pointing to the ceiling, place a pencil inside the barrel eraser down, against the breech, squeeze the trigger to release the striker, the pencil should jump up fairly high if the striker is hitting with force.

Be sure to check that the safety plunger is in the correct orientation in the slide as that could interfere with proper strike function. The plunger channel needs to be clean of lube and debris for proper function of the plunger & striker.

If all of that checks out, headspace is very critical to the proper alignment of the casing with respect to the breech face and under the extractor hook.

Case sizing needs to be less than 0.002" inside to flush for best fit. When testing in your barrel, be sure to push on the casehead, to seat it inside the chamber as far as it will go, while looking at the headspacing. Do this with an empty sized casing without a bullet to check things to eliminate the bullet or case neck as an issue.

COAL should be 1.250"-1.260" to have good neck tention on the bullets to help elimenate setback of bullets.

Good luck getting things sorted out!

mrpipesmkr, no I haven't had the chance to work with the 800X in the 9x25 yet, but I will visit that soon! Just a few things going on taking precedence...sorry!

Tks for the feedback. Barrel lockup is fine. Have already tried pencil test. No problems there. Took slide apart and cleaned the striker and channel thinking that grime was the problem. It wasn't. I swapped out the striker assembly from my G21 to my G20 and will try it again at the range tomorrow. Taking all the unfired rds and will run some through again. I will check the headspace per your advice. I figured either OAL or headspace or both are causing my problems. Very frustrating, because I'm used to having very reliable reloading results. I'll post again after the range trip. Tks again.

[mrpipesmkr]

Veprx4,
I agree with everything Shadow says, but would add some things I experienced.
Dillon factory loads had way too much set back on the shoulders for my LWD chamber. Be sure you are sizing to your chamber (as I believe you are) and when checking headspace be sure you round is fully seated in the chamber.

During bullet seating the short neck and shoulder of a 9x25 can be distorted which makes for a tight fit in the chamber. Over crimping will cause a swell in the neck which can prevent full chambering.

I switched to a Ghost 3.5# trigger set up on my G20 and got a few light strikes on 9x25 (none on 10mm) . If i remember correctly, the Ghost kit came with the 4# striker spring and after I put the factory Glock spring back in the problem was eliminated. Also, with the light striker spring installed the trigger safety would not re-set after I took up slack on the trigger and released it, creating an un-safe condition.

If you havn't already done so, I would suggest a 20# or 22# recoil spring in your G20. I run a 22# in mine and when I installed it I experienced a more positive lock up and even improved accuracy. My belief is that the heavier spring helps to overcome slight variations in headspace caused by things like fouling in the chamber, insuring that the barrel fully locks up.

Don't give up on the 9x25. It's a great round and about the most fun you can have with a pistol!

[veprx4]

Originally Posted by mrpipesmkr

Veprx4,
I agree with everything Shadow says, but would add some things I experienced.
Dillon factory loads had way too much set back on the shoulders for my LWD chamber. Be sure you are sizing to your chamber (as I believe you are) and when checking headspace be sure you round is fully seated in the chamber.

During bullet seating the short neck and shoulder of a 9x25 can be distorted which makes for a tight fit in the chamber. Over crimping will cause a swell in the neck which can prevent full chambering.

I switched to a Ghost 3.5# trigger set up on my G20 and got a few light strikes on 9x25 (none on 10mm) . If i remember correctly, the Ghost kit came with the 4# striker spring and after I put the factory Glock spring back in the problem was eliminated. Also, with the light striker spring installed the trigger safety would not re-set after I took up slack on the trigger and released it, creating an un-safe condition.

If you havn't already done so, I would suggest a 20# or 22# recoil spring in your G20. I run a 22# in mine and when I installed it I experienced a more positive lock up and even improved accuracy. My belief is that the heavier spring helps to overcome slight variations in headspace caused by things like fouling in the chamber, insuring that the barrel fully locks up.

Don't give up on the 9x25. It's a great round and about the most fun you can have with a pistol!

Tks for your feedback. My G20 was bought used at a local show a year or two ago. Running a DPM recoil reduction system with their recoil guide and spring...don't recall the spring rating. Also has the 3.5 connector with factory spring. Today I ran 11 test rounds through the pistol. Only 3 of 11 fired on the first trigger pull. Good solid strike on fired rounds. I cycled the remaining rounds by hand letting the slide ease gently into battery. All rounds fired second time around. A range staffer looked at the headspace and thought it was a tad below the chamber hood. He recommended dialing back the sizing die a bit more, so the loaded round would require a light push into the chamber versus dropping right in. This supported his theory of the rounds going off when slide eased into battery. He reasoned the not quite properly headspaced rounds were going too far into chamber by the normal slide recoil force. I will adjust sizing die back a bit more and try again next range visit. Tks for your help.

[_The_Shadow]

veprx4, in my initial reply I actually suspected the headspacing, as it is critical with this round. However, I tryied to cover all the bases that could lead to the situation you were experiencing!

I go for 0.00" or flush to the chamber hood with my chambered rounds...

Part of the learning curve with the 9x25Dillon and the 357SIG rounds, good experience all around!

[mrpipesmkr]

veprx4,

I used a flat feeler gauge to measure headspace on my reloads. Set at a tight 0.002. With the naked eye you can barley see the relief of the shell base below the hood and with my thumb I can just feel a slight difference as I rub it over the hood and shell base. Hope this gives you an Idea of where it should be at.

I use an ISMI captured guide rod with the 22# spring and run a buffer technologies buffer. The rod works great. Occasionaly the allen head screw will work loose during a long range session of 10's and 9x25's even though I use lock tight. The buffer seems to help but I'm not sure it's needed with the plastic frame.

Sounds like you are on the way to solving your problem! Enjoy your 9x25!

[veprx4]

Originally Posted by _The_Shadow

veprx4, in my initial reply I actually suspected the headspacing, as it is critical with this round. However, I tryied to cover all the bases that could lead to the situation you were experiencing!

I go for 0.00" or flush to the chamber hood with my chambered rounds...

Part of the learning curve with the 9x25Dillon and the 357SIG rounds, good experience all around!

Agreed, but I had none of these issues reloading 357SIG. Go figure. :-)

[veprx4]

Originally Posted by mrpipesmkr

veprx4,

I used a flat feeler gauge to measure headspace on my reloads. Set at a tight 0.002. With the naked eye you can barley see the relief of the shell base below the hood and with my thumb I can just feel a slight difference as I rub it over the hood and shell base. Hope this gives you an Idea of where it should be at.

I use an ISMI captured guide rod with the 22# spring and run a buffer technologies buffer. The rod works great. Occasionaly the allen head screw will work loose during a long range session of 10's and 9x25's even though I use lock tight. The buffer seems to help but I'm not sure it's needed with the plastic frame.

Sounds like you are on the way to solving your problem! Enjoy your 9x25!

Thank you sir. Hopefully I'll dial it in soon. Good idea about feeler gauge. I'll give that a try.

[dm1906]

You could tighten up the headspace by case sizing, but that really cuts your margin of error to a point of increased FTF/F possibility.

This shouldn't be an issue, with a Glock. Regardless of how/where the shoulder is spacing, the case head should space on the extractor, and the striker should find the primer, under any circumstance. I suspect either a short striker (worn out or modified), or a bad extractor (worn out or modified), or a worn/broken extractor spring/plunger. These are cheap parts, readily available. The case length allowance for the 10mm is .984-.992", significantly more than .002". Other cartridges fired from the same platform don't (regularly) see this issue, including .40S&W, which spaces solely on the extractor (when using the 10mm barrel, OEM or aftermarket), and especially .357Sig. If the problem were, in fact, the shoulder length spacing, we'd see this a LOT more with the other cartridges fired from the same platform.

Forcing the headspace by lengthening the shoulder may leave you with another issue, which is more of an issue, and can be dangerous. It won't take much residue to space the cartridge back far enough to prevent full battery lock-up, and may allow firing in the condition. This can also be caused by dirt, bullet lube, powder fouling, lead/copper particles, and even a dented/deformed case. As you are adjusting your shoulder length, keep a VERY close watch on the primer strike location. If any round appears to hit off-center, you've crossed that threshold.

Just a note for comparison:
In regards to pistol-fired shouldered cartridges, they set up and react very different from their rifle counterparts. I load and shoot .38-40 WCF, which is a shouldered (and rimmed) cartridge, fired from a Ruger BH, and lever action rifles. I have new .38-40 brass, but make most them from .44 Mag cases. New formed cases are not reliable, and must be fired once before they are (fire-forming). I size them long, so they will barely allow cylinder turning (zero headspace). Once fired, they will be perfectly headspaced to .004-.006", and allow for very easy rotation, and remain at that space, load after load. The same method is used for forming rifle brass, but a more typical post-firing headspace will be .001-.002", regardless of the cartridge caliber (although some require more than one firing).

[veprx4]

Originally Posted by dm1906

You could tighten up the headspace by case sizing, but that really cuts your margin of error to a point of increased FTF/F possibility.

This shouldn't be an issue, with a Glock. Regardless of how/where the shoulder is spacing, the case head should space on the extractor, and the striker should find the primer, under any circumstance. I suspect either a short striker (worn out or modified), or a bad extractor (worn out or modified), or a worn/broken extractor spring/plunger. These are cheap parts, readily available. The case length allowance for the 10mm is .984-.992", significantly more than .002". Other cartridges fired from the same platform don't (regularly) see this issue, including .40S&W, which spaces solely on the extractor (when using the 10mm barrel, OEM or aftermarket), and especially .357Sig. If the problem were, in fact, the shoulder length spacing, we'd see this a LOT more with the other cartridges fired from the same platform.

Forcing the headspace by lengthening the shoulder may leave you with another issue, which is more of an issue, and can be dangerous. It won't take much residue to space the cartridge back far enough to prevent full battery lock-up, and may allow firing in the condition. This can also be caused by dirt, bullet lube, powder fouling, lead/copper particles, and even a dented/deformed case. As you are adjusting your shoulder length, keep a VERY close watch on the primer strike location. If any round appears to hit off-center, you've crossed that threshold.

Just a note for comparison:
In regards to pistol-fired shouldered cartridges, they set up and react very different from their rifle counterparts. I load and shoot .38-40 WCF, which is a shouldered (and rimmed) cartridge, fired from a Ruger BH, and lever action rifles. I have new .38-40 brass, but make most them from .44 Mag cases. New formed cases are not reliable, and must be fired once before they are (fire-forming). I size them long, so they will barely allow cylinder turning (zero headspace). Once fired, they will be perfectly headspaced to .004-.006", and allow for very easy rotation, and remain at that space, load after load. The same method is used for forming rifle brass, but a more typical post-firing headspace will be .001-.002", regardless of the cartridge caliber (although some require more than one firing).

dm1906, thanks for your excellent feedback. It's back to the range for another try tomorrow. If my headspace adjustments don't solve the issue, then I will start replacing parts.