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Old 03-15-2004, 10:51   #1
noway
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Some poachers are just plain stupid

I had to post this LEO summary on what happens to a poacher who mess with game on your property, here in SW florida.

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SARASOTA COUNTY
On Sun., Feb. 29, Officer Rick Sloan responded to a call from the Sarasota County Sheriff's Office involving a man who had killed a deer. Apparently, the man entered private property and shot a doe in a homeowner's front yard. The suspect then climbed a fence and was pulling the deer back to his truck when several property owners confronted him. As the suspect attempted to drive away, one of the property owners tried to stop him, but the subject swerved around the property owner. Fearing the suspect might escape, the property owner shot a hole in the suspect's truck tire. A short time later, a sheriff's deputy stopped the suspect who had what looked like blood and deer hair on his clothing. After being interviewed by Investigator Mike Frantz, the suspect admitted killing the deer. A .22-caliber scoped rifle, knife, blood stained clothing, and doe deer were seized as evidence. The suspect was charged with taking deer during the closed season and booked into the county jail.
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You got to love it. Some poachers are just plain stupid and brave.
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Old 03-15-2004, 11:13   #2
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I'm of the opinion that all poachers are stupid. This guy just went over and above the call of duty. ;f
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Old 03-16-2004, 00:39   #3
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Property Owner.

I own 60 acres of prime whitetail habitat and it gets to be a full time job keeping hunters,esp.unauthorized "legal" hunters,run off during season.I dont live on it so I cant even begin to hope to keep poachers policed.What I mean is I leave it up to the law of averages to catch up to the full time poachers in this area.They feed their families all year on deer meat and have been doing so for generations.They are usually the same ones whose families have been on the public dole for generations also.When they get caught they lose their hunting priviledges for 3 years.The viscous cycle starts all over again,they just go back to poaching,go figure.
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Old 03-16-2004, 08:16   #4
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I highly doubt these people really care about a hunting license . I know of a few guys I talk too ( older & young ) that believe a fence line posted or not , means nothing. The will not give a 2nd thought about crossing a fence to go shoot deer or doves in or out of seasons.

They have been raised & taught that no boundarys exist. How my dad puts it, " in the old ways the land was kinda shared used by everybody and nowadays the hunters that are grewing up still believes it exists that way"

When I was grewing up I hunted on private property in the local area but it was a non-written agreement amongest the neighbors property that it was okay. I wouldn't dare try to cross a private property owner land today that I don't know and try to hunt game on it. That's just plain stupid & wrong.
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Old 04-02-2004, 05:42   #5
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I've found some recently poached deers while spring turkey hunting.

Carved up in the woods, meat taken, and scraps for the coyotes.

Just not right.
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Old 04-04-2004, 21:19   #6
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Around here the deer are considered pests. Bow season just ended a few weeks ago in the suburbs. If you really wanted to you could deer hunt from August to March.

While I'm sure that there's problems with tresspassers that are hunting deer I don't hear too many complaints about people hunting deer out of season.

I guess it also depends to. Was the poacher some out of work guy who was trying to feed his family? or some idiot selling venison jerky on the side?


News reports rarely tell us enough to make a decision about a persons guilt.
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Old 04-04-2004, 22:33   #7
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{I guess it also depends to. Was the poacher some out of work guy who was trying to feed his family? or some idiot selling venison jerky on the side?
}

Does it make a difference?

Either way it's illegal and prevents one less deer for the person who trying to hunt legally.

I don't buy the thought of a guy poaching a deer because he is hunger or needs to feed his family. This poacher are plain out criminals.
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Old 04-05-2004, 06:34   #8
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To me it does make a difference.

I'm pretty sure I read somemplace in the Old Testament that if you steal a loaf of bread because you are starving it's not a crime.

Where I live and hunt there are way more deer than hunters. Poachers aren't hurting the deer population. Heck my county is paying off duty cops to shoot deer, then dumping the carcasses. If someone is poaching deer and actually feeding their family with the meat I don't have a problem with it. If they are selling the meat, or just taking the antlers and dumping the rest I'd be upset.

That doesn't mean that I support poaching in all forms. I'm just saying that around here, under certain circumstances, I wouldn't convict the guy.

We'll have to agree to disagree on this one then.
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Old 04-05-2004, 07:28   #9
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{I'm pretty sure I read somemplace in the Old Testament that if you steal a loaf of bread because you are starving it's not a crime.
}

So with this stupid logic, if said hungry guy robs a grocery store he would be okay? What if he broken in and stole your food from the refrig? I guess that would be okay ? What if he robs you at knife/gun point on the street of whatever you have in your pocket, so he can go out and buy some food for himself? I guess that would be okay. ;g

Since you use the bible as reference, the smart thing would be for the hungry man to go to his local church and support group if he was so hungry and need assistance, and not perform any illegal activities inorder to feed his family.
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Old 04-05-2004, 15:15   #10
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Quote:
Originally posted by noway
{I guess it also depends to. Was the poacher some out of work guy who was trying to feed his family? or some idiot selling venison jerky on the side?
}

Does it make a difference?

Either way it's illegal and prevents one less deer for the person who trying to hunt legally.

I don't buy the thought of a guy poaching a deer because he is hunger or needs to feed his family. This poacher are plain out criminals.
Deer are pests where I live. No ands ifs or buts you can see dozens of deer 365 days a year on my property. I have misplaced both my last hunting license and my hunter's safety certificate, and am not really interested in sitting through 2 days of classes again, and unless I can figure out what the heck I did with those documents, that is what I must do if I ever desire to legally hunt again. I have shot one deer; a wounded deer on my property, that was wounded by a jack***** who had a license and tag. I had no tag, and my license was not current. Was I a criminal? Was I a poacher? I let the jack***** take the deer, and have told him not to step foot on my property again. Yet he can stand inches from my property line in the El Dorado National Forest and wound another deer and track it onto my property and be legal. ;l Bullocks!!!!

Why is it a crime for me to hunt animals on my own property? What happened to property rights?

Oh yeah. I forgot, the King owns all the deer, and I must go to the King and get his permission, pay his taxes, and only hunt when he tells me I can hunt. If I fail to pay homage to the King and jump through his hoops, and pay him his taxes, and hunt only when he says I can hunt, then I am a poacher and a criminal. ;Q

Oh yeah, we have come a long way since the days of feudal lords in England... ;Q I guess I won't be put to death... some improvement.
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Old 04-06-2004, 06:51   #11
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Here in VA you can hunt deer on your own property without a license. You still are supossed to check your deer at a check station. (why you would shoot a deer on your own property, drive to the check station, then drive back to your property I don't know.

Also Youth under 12 are not required to have a hunting license as long as they are hunting with an adult. Any deer shot by the youth still has to be checked, but there is no requirement to tag it with the adults tags. It's counted as a youth kill. Also kids under 16 are allowed to shoot an antlerless deer even in Bucks only zones or times.

I love VA!


Noway,

I said we're going to have to agree to disagree on this one.

As long as the person isn't tresspassing on someone elses property I don't care if they shoot deer out of season. After re-reading the case you listed the poacher was on someone elses property. I do have a problem with that. But as far as shooting a deer out of season I think it's less of a crime than driving over the speed limit.
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Old 04-07-2004, 21:12   #12
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Sounds like a conversation in "situational ethics" to me! Either it is okay to violate the law.....or it is not!?!

In my opinion there is not even a "moral leg to stand on" if the law in question is not unconstitutional! (And that is just my opinion.) If a man is "too proud" to request assistance to feed his family if that is necessary, how is it somehow morally more acceptable to "break the law" to feed his family? Great lesson for the children!

Most of the poachers I have known "just trying to feed their family".....owned several guns, several vehicles, several TV's, didn't have trouble coming up with money for "toys, beer, or cigarettes".

This isn't the Great Depression! There are available programs to assist people back on their feet when needed. Don't talk to me about pride, while scoffing at the laws. Property rights belong to individual owners of the property. Game and wildlife belong to "all residents" of a state! You have the right to control use of your property, but that right does not extend to violating the laws of your jurisdiction (not even the ones you don't like or agree with). And if you choose to do so, at least be intellectually honest enough to admit that you are indeed poaching....and committing a criminal offense, any and all moralizing to the contrary! Some of us still know what the meaning of "is.....is"! And when necessary we work more than one job if required to, insuring our family is fed! (An awful good reason to not produce more children then you are willing to work to support!) And that means if you happen to live from paycheck to paycheck.....plan for the possibility that your current job may not last forever. INDIVIDUAL RESPONSIBILITY.......a very unpopular concept in our society today!

If I have failed to ingratiate myself with everyone on this thread....so be it!

Dave
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Old 04-07-2004, 22:03   #13
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Dont quote me the bible!

Noway dude,Jesus said "Render unto Ceaser what is Ceasers and to God what is Gods".That means not only paying taxes but also obeying laws esp. those that dont violate Gods Laws.It says nowhere in the Bible,thou shalt poach venison,as in hunt out of season.Dont try to use scripture to justify illegal activity.
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Old 04-07-2004, 22:39   #14
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{Noway dude,Jesus said "Render unto Ceaser what is Ceasers and to God what is Gods".That means not only paying taxes but also obeying laws esp. those that dont violate Gods Laws.It says nowhere in the Bible,thou shalt poach venison,as in hunt out of season.Dont try to use scripture to justify illegal activity.}

I think you need to go back and re-read who started the biblical statement and it wasn't me, and no-way did I state it was approved by the bible to hunt or in this case illegal poach deer due to the need to feed a person mouth or mouths.
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Old 04-07-2004, 23:41   #15
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"Sounds like a conversation in "situational ethics" to me! Either it is okay to violate the law.....or it is not!?!"

It's ok for lots of them. It's not a defence in court. But morally, it can be fine. Just like doing something that isn't against the law being immoral. In some states adults can legally bang 16yr olds, that's getting pretty immoral with over 20yr old adults. Conversely taking a deer out of season when they're thicker than flies on s*i* isn't immoral.;l
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Old 04-08-2004, 04:42   #16
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Hi 6forsure,

Let me insure I understand your argument?!? Two wrongs make a right!?! Is that how you see it?

So it's justifiable for me to commit robbery.......as long as I "only rob those that have more money than s*i* has flies".....is that how it goes? (And for the record.....I think any "man" that would have sex with a "girl".......is a POS too! For the record!)

Just checking.

Dave

P.S. "It depends on what the meaning of is........is"! A statement of ethics of a huge percentage of today's population!

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Old 04-08-2004, 10:57   #17
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Quote:
Originally posted by akbound
Hi 6forsure,

Let me insure I understand your argument?!? Two wrongs make a right!?! Is that how you see it?

So it's justifiable for me to commit robbery.......as long as I "only rob those that have more money than s*i* has flies".....is that how it goes? (And for the record.....I think any "man" that would have sex with a "girl".......is a POS too! For the record!)

Just checking.

Dave

P.S. "It depends on what the meaning of is........is"! A statement of ethics of a huge percentage of today's population!
No. I see it as the law not necessarily having anything to do with right or wrong. As in the case with your opinion about 'man' 'girl' sexual relationships being wrong even when it's legal (which conflicts with your 'if it's constitutional law, then it's an ethical one' stance IMO). I don't find takeing a deer out of season, if done in a safe manner without trespassing on private property, to be universally wrong especially given their abundant population in some places. I really don't equate an overpopulation of whitetail to someone elses money especially when they are on your own property or in the bar ditch in the middle of nowhere either.
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Old 04-08-2004, 16:58   #18
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just wrong

I can understand why someone would take deer out of season to feed their family...but Killing ELK and such just for their Rack and leaving the rest to ROT. JUST WRONG. And worse are the sick ***** who shoot up animals for no reason..just to kill. ;t
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Old 04-08-2004, 17:58   #19
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QUOTE:
" No. I see it as the law not necessarily having anything to do with right or wrong. As in the case with your opinion about 'man' 'girl' sexual relationships being wrong even when it's legal (which conflicts with your 'if it's constitutional law, then it's an ethical one' stance IMO). I don't find takeing a deer out of season, if done in a safe manner without trespassing on private property, to be universally wrong especially given their abundant population in some places. I really don't equate an overpopulation of whitetail to someone elses money especially when they are on your own property or in the bar ditch in the middle of nowhere either. END OF QUOTE.


Hi 6forsure,

If you disagree with law(s) as they currently exist then take steps towards reforming or changing the law(s). We are either a society of laws, or we are not! There is no in between.....except for those that practice situational ethics, situational morality (an oxymoron in itself), and you are either "principled" or not.

I don't know you, so I will not make a judgement about your principles. But I do know that if a person can, and is willing to rationalize inappropriate (define that as illegal) behavior as an acceptable reaction to any and every law that they personally do NOT like or agree with......they then forfeit any title to moral or principled behavior.

There are very few criminals in prison that can not give you a personal justification for the behavior that landed them in prison! In other words.....everyone has a reason(s) they broke the law. That does not mean their behavior was either justifiable, appropriate, or acceptable!

And I stand on my earlier assertion that there are better ways for a "responsible" man to feed their family....then resorting to lawlessness, excuses aside!

Dave

P.S. Something we do seem to be in agreement on. A "man" having sex with a "girl" IS ABOUT ETHICS! And any men I would claim as friends, (not merely "boy wanna-be's"), would not take advantage of a girl sexually. But that is just my standard of behavior!

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Old 04-08-2004, 19:58   #20
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"P.S. Something we do seem to be in agreement on. A "man" having sex with a "girl" IS ABOUT ETHICS! And any men I would claim as friends, (not merely "boy wanna-be's"), would not take advantage of a girl sexually. But that is just my standard of behavior!"

I agree. Even though it is perfectally legal in some states. I don't agree with lots of laws, and I do break some of them. Some I don't break, and just don't agree with. Some I agree with. To me, law just doesn't come into play in my decision of right or wrong, and I just don't feel that poaching is wrong in every circumstance. I also find my stance to be principled. I'd also put forth that convicted criminals in prison can be principled or moral depending on what they were convicted for. ;l
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