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Old 12-30-2005, 14:24   #141
Brown Hawk
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Quote:
Originally posted by Tempest UK
far too PC to even suggest such a thing ;Q

Regards,
Tempest
Same problem here. I guess it's going to take some people getting killed to stop this PC crud. They search little old ladies, but not the most likely. ;Q

Thanks for the link on Bucks. I was thinking it was a little further from London. And I thought it was a county, but wasn't sure. My map didn't really show the counties. Looks like a nice place to visit.

Hawk
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Old 12-30-2005, 15:01   #142
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Quote:
Originally posted by Brown Hawk
Looks like a nice place to visit.

Hawk
It is! Just like the rest of the UK!

We are lovely really, honest! ;f
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Old 12-30-2005, 16:44   #143
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Quote:
Originally posted by TommyT
It is! Just like the rest of the UK!

We are lovely really, honest! ;f
I'll buy that.

But if your worst job is to break up drunken brawls, and it happens every week, maybe you really DO need to outlaw beer mugs.;b

Sorry, that was just a little too easy!

Stay safe, and maybe I'll get there one of these days.

Hawk
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Old 12-30-2005, 18:14   #144
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Just to point out my very American opinion, but on a comment that was made earlier about the British not having the right to keep and bear arms. I have to disagree, you HAVE the right, as it's not a governmental given privilage, it's a right, given to you by God, gods, nature, or whatever you choose to believe in (another of your rights) the fact that the majority have surrendered your right, doesn't make it any less your right. Just harder to enjoy, and potentially unpleasant.
As for the other comment made earlier about not having said right, and having gotten along swimmingly (sorry, I don't know how to quote) for the past several thousand years. Again, I disagree, and I think there a thousands of Scots, Irish, etc who were forceably disarmed by the friendly government of the now UK, who fought and died to restore those rights would probably agree with me. The same people whom, if they had abided by prohibitions of owning swords at the time, might still be second class subjects or worse.
I'm not trying to pick a fight, although I'm sure I could win, since I'm armed and you guys aren't ;f. (just teasing on that last bit) but my point is thus, you DO have the right, you just fail to recongize it, and that freedoms have been hard fought from the government in your own past. Yes I understnad, you are statistically safer in terms of violent crime in the UK, and I understand that the majority gave up their rights willingly. My "Live Free or die" attitude wouldn't fly. Or maybe it would, maybe we just disagree on what "free" is. That could be the the main misunderstanding between us.
I'm a libertarian, which puts me in the minority even in this country, because of what I believe freedom is, as compared to the average American, so I'd probably way off there anyway. *Drown* I don't trust a government, any government, because historically, every government men have created has become corrupt and lead to tyranny. The only ones that have not, are the ones that haven't had time to yet. I do not trust my government not to do it, and I suspect that your government, wittingly or not, is heading for a calamity. So I think governments should stay out of peoples lives as much as humanly possible, to reduce their ability to oppress people. I don't think they should have anything to do with people doing things to themselves, and I don't believe that they should preemptively attack me, when I have not done anything to harm others, or interfere with their basic rights. An example of this is a popular law here in the US, where the wearing of seatbelts is required by law. I ask you, what business is it the government's, if I kill or injure myself? They should not have the authority. I wear my seatbelt because I choose to, not because they try and make me. The same is true of gun ownership in my mind, they have no business taking away my God given right to protect myself, whether I "need" it or not. I may live in a place that has no crime whatsoever, but if I'm not hurting or endangering anyone else, there is not adequate reason to take this away from me, it doesn't make sense to me. Afterall, if its that safe, then the danger of me doing anything is nil anyway, right? And if there IS in fact a danger, then I should have the ability to handle it myself, if I choose.
Wow... I've made alot more noise than I intended to ;f so I appologize if I ranted a bit too much.
At any rate, stay safe, and live free
b
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Old 12-30-2005, 19:12   #145
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Midnight,

If you refer back to an earlier post of mine, I think it comes down to they trust their government, and we don't. I think that at least part of that is no invasion in the last 950 years. Whatever the reason, it is there.

And while you and I think they're standing on the track, and the train is coming, most of them won't agree. And most of humanity would sooner give up their lives than their preconceptions.

As Tempest has said earlier, their leadership is too PC to admit that there is a problem, and it will probably take some more lives before they do. Who was it who said that all it takes to make a liberal into a gun-nut is a mugging?

And yes, I think that their definition of freedom is different than ours. I think theirs is: Free to live in peace and harmony with fellow subjects. (This is subject to correction by our UK cousins.) Our definition is: Free to go to hell in our own handbasket.

We may not agree, but when I look at it their way, I can see why they're not getting bent out of shape.

And keep in mind that the last time they got mugged, we sent guns and they put them to dam good use.

And they have more of an attitude that government confers rights, not God. But that's why we split in the first place.

Hawk
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Old 12-30-2005, 19:22   #146
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Agreed, I'm not trying to be an ***, but I read this thread every time somone posts, and I just had to say something again I accept the differences, but I just can't fathom how so many good, hard working people, of whom so many died protecting freedom, can simply say "well, that wasn't really freedom anyway, and since we don't think we need it now, we never will" it just seems to be a recipe for disaster to me.
Goes back to the culture differences I guess.
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Old 12-30-2005, 19:38   #147
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KY-Midnight,


That isn't the point. Those that fight and died didn't do for to sample freedom, they did so to secure freedom. It is not a case of us not thinking we needed it, it is a case of us , correctly or not, believing we have it.

Three little quotes from three different perspectives:

From my definition of freedom:

"We seek peace, knowing that peace is the climate of freedom."
- Dwight D. Eisenhower

From what I assume to be yours and Brown Hawk's, regarding us:

"The average man does not want to be free. He simply wants to be safe."
-
H. L. Mencken


However, I think it is generally foolish to speak in terms of simple "freedom". In that respect, none of us a "free". Instead, we should look at it in terms of individual freedoms, and the presence of any one freedom does not make you "free".

To this viewpoint, the last quote relates. I would try to apply this to the American way of thinking, but equally I am sure you will apply it to ours. I am sure, rather, that it applies to both of us. You believe in "freedom" which in itself is a lie by its own definition, and under the "British" way of thinking we should supposedly believe ourselves to be "free" also. However, I personally recognise that by said definition of "freedom", as I have stated before, none of us are "free".

"None are so hopelessly enslaved as those who falsely believe they are free."
- Goethe

Regards,
Tempest
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Old 12-30-2005, 19:44   #148
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Quote:
Originally posted by KY-Midnight

Goes back to the culture differences I guess.
Yeah,
But look at it from their point of view.

In the United States of America:
Atheists believe in God given rights;
Liberals don't think the government should stick it's nose in THEIR business;
Conservatives believe in individual liberty;
Christians will turn the other cheek, but retain their six guns;
and
We founded the UN, but regularly tell it to B%^&***& OUT.

No wonder they think we're way out there.;Q

Hawk
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Old 12-30-2005, 20:10   #149
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Quote:
Originally posted by Tempest UK

"We seek peace, knowing that peace is the climate of freedom."
- Dwight D. Eisenhower


"The average man does not want to be free. He simply wants to be safe."
-
H. L. Mencken


"None are so hopelessly enslaved as those who falsely believe they are free."
- Goethe

Regards,
Tempest
Hey, Tempest, How you doing?

As for your three quotes, I'd say:

Freedom is the climate of peace.

The average man wants to be free, but often will settle for safe.

If I recall, Goethe believed that circumstances governed us, not the other way around. So he didn't believe in freedom.

I think Midnight and I would tend to agree on the first two. And at the beginning of this country, a European traveling here, (I'm sorry I forget his name) said that when Americans were confronted with someone who said that the circumstances wouldn't permit something, would retort that then they would change the circumstances. We haven't changed much since.

Good to hear from you,

Hawk
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Old 12-31-2005, 22:40   #150
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Quote:
Originally posted by Brown Hawk

But if your worst job is to break up drunken brawls, and it happens every week, maybe you really DO need to outlaw beer mugs.;b
Tell me about it! ;z
Friday and Saturday nights are THE nights for all the trouble. Binge drinking and public order problems are the biggest challenges the police here currently face. It's an issue which regularly makes headline news, and is a top priority in the Governments agenda.

As an interesting side issue, the Serious Organised Crime and Police Act 2005 became law as of midnight tonight. It's a HUGE change in our powers of arrest. Basically ANY offence is now arrestable under Section 24 of the Police and Criminal Evidence Act. In the past, some offences were not 'arrestable' and had to be dealt with by summons etc.
It's not as simple as it sounds though. The new Act states that we should only arrest when other means, such as fixed penalty notices or the like are not appropriate. When the suspect is now arrested, not only must he be cautioned and given the reason for his arrest, but he must now be told why that arrest is necessary.
This only applies to England and Wales. Scotland's criminal law is different to the rest of the UK.
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Old 01-01-2006, 12:13   #151
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Quote:
Originally posted by TommyT

As an interesting side issue, the Serious Organised Crime and Police Act 2005 became law as of midnight tonight. It's a HUGE change in our powers of arrest. Basically ANY offence is now arrestable under Section 24 of the Police and Criminal Evidence Act. In the past, some offences were not 'arrestable' and had to be dealt with by summons etc.
It's not as simple as it sounds though. The new Act states that we should only arrest when other means, such as fixed penalty notices or the like are not appropriate. When the suspect is now arrested, not only must he be cautioned and given the reason for his arrest, but he must now be told why that arrest is necessary.
This only applies to England and Wales. Scotland's criminal law is different to the rest of the UK. [/B]

Jolly good show!

I bet the New Year has/will continue to result in a sharp increase in alcohol related problems.
;c
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Old 01-01-2006, 20:26   #152
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Tommy,

Well, New Years and a weekend all at the same time!;P

Here's hoping that you and all your mates made it through safely.

Best wishes,

Hawk
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Old 01-02-2006, 08:09   #153
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Cheers guys.
To be fair, New Years was fairly quiet. Most people around here were quite well behaved, perhaps because most clubs / pubs were ticket only. Once people were inside, they stayed there all evening. Spirits were good and everyone seemed to have a good time.

Christmas Eve on the other hand was a nightmare. Fights all over the place! Was rushing around 'on the blues' for hours. ;Q ;f
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Old 01-10-2006, 11:24   #154
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The UK populace have a long history of relying on their "masters"...the government (read: the aristocracy) to protect them. WE do not. WE took it upon ourselves to protect what WE owned and had control of. It is apparent, in national attitude, the differences in our recent history.

The british people need to wake up, or they'll find themsleves the unformtuneate victims of their own apathy.

God Bless America!!!!!!!!!!!!!

-R
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Old 01-10-2006, 12:37   #155
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Originally posted by EntryTeamBJJMMA
The UK populace have a long history of relying on their "masters"...the government (read: the aristocracy) to protect them. WE do not. WE took it upon ourselves to protect what WE owned and had control of. It is apparent, in national attitude, the differences in our recent history.

The british people need to wake up, or they'll find themsleves the unformtuneate victims of their own apathy.

God Bless America!!!!!!!!!!!!!

-R
What a stupid comment.

Yeah, we're a backward civilization, who can't look after ourselves. We need Mummy Blair to tell us what to do.

*runs off to play with toys*
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Old 01-14-2006, 04:12   #156
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Quote:
Originally posted by EntryTeamBJJMMA
The UK populace have a long history of relying on their "masters"...the government (read: the aristocracy) to protect them. WE do not. WE took it upon ourselves to protect what WE owned and had control of. It is apparent, in national attitude, the differences in our recent history.

The british people need to wake up, or they'll find themsleves the unformtuneate victims of their own apathy.

God Bless America!!!!!!!!!!!!!

-R

;a


...oh...you're serious. Well, a post of such pre-pubescent proportions doesn't deserve a serious response.
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Old 01-14-2006, 07:33   #157
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Originally posted by Tempest UK
;a


...oh...you're serious. Well, a post of such pre-pubescent proportions doesn't deserve a serious response.
Indeed. To think they actually let someone with such a childish attitude own so many guns (sig) perhaps sums up perfectly why we have the laws we do. ;Q

That, and of course the fact that we are all the subserviant slaves of our government. ;a
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Old 01-14-2006, 09:54   #158
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I always believed the old maxim "Beware the man who only has one gun - he probably knows how to use it!"
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Old 02-15-2006, 13:34   #159
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Another British Police Officer shot.

From BBC News online:

A policewoman who was shot in the stomach by a gunman has said "sorry" to her family for not catching him.

Pc Rachael Bown, 23, of Nottinghamshire Police, who is still in a serious condition in hospital, told her father she had let her colleagues down.

She was on duty with an experienced male officer when she was shot in the abdomen below her body armour in Nottingham late on Monday night.

No-one has been arrested and the police investigation continues.


We just want her to get better and bring her home Jan Bown, Rachael's mother.

Her parents, Martin and Jan Bown, said their daughter's first thoughts when she awoke from surgery was that she had let her colleagues down.

The attack happened about half a mile from where the burglary took place.

Pc Bown underwent emergency surgery at the city's Queen's Medical Centre.

Mr Martin, 44, said: "When she opened her eyes the first thing she said was 'sorry dad, I'm going to get the sack'.

"That's the sort of girl she is, she is always thinking of others and would hate to think she'd let anyone down."

Her parents described the last two days as a living nightmare.
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Old 03-09-2006, 13:00   #160
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Quote:
Originally posted by big grip
I took this from my post on the CCW forum, figured it would go here well.

Here's a link, it's 46 pages in a pdf so you can save it to your hard drive.

http://www.unicri.it/icvs/publicati...y2000i/app4.pdf

You will want to check tables # 1, 6 & 25.

The US has a decreasing violent crime rate and the so-called "civilized" nations of the UK, Canada and Austrilia have raising violent crime. I noticed that the UK breaks out Scotland from England & Whales.

BTW, this is from a UN web page therefore liberals CAN NOT ARGUE with you about it.
Have you got a current link? I need this information.
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